S&W 17-2 Price Check, Please

[Hawk]

Ok, I give. SCoSW is ordered along with the Jink's history. I'm not waiting for a Supica firearm purchase.

But in the meantime, Fuff...

All unfired.
Model 43 in .22 'J' Frame
Model 34 in .22 'I' Frame
Model 18 in .22 'K' Frame

Ranging in starting price from 450.00 to 550.00. Is the hundred bucks just based on production numbers? Or maybe cult status?

Since the 34 is 'sposed to be an 'I' frame and there were no 'I' frames after 1961, does this mean the 34 is pre-61?

Most mysterious: if they're all unfired in original box, why do they all (for the time being) appear to be less desirable than a 17 of similar unfired-ness and with-box-ness?

I am reminded of the theory of relativity and the famous wisecrack of one Arthur Eddington who when asked if it was true that only three people understood relativity, the witty British astrophysicist paused, then said, "I am trying to think who the third person is".

The understanding of Smith & Wesson model numbers would appear not totally dissimilar.

 

[Brian Dale]

Most mysterious: if they're all unfired in original box, why do they all (for the time being) appear to be less desirable than a 17 of similar unfired-ness and with-box-ness?

It could be because the Model 17 is the best known of the four. So many people have heard of the "K-22" and like the long barrel that it's going to have a price premium, as ammo prices convince more and more folks to buy .22s. There's an inclination to look for a "good, old .22 revolver" like the ones they'd seen as kids, or about which they've read glowing reports from others.

 

[XavierBreath]

All unfired.
Model 43 in .22 'J' Frame
Model 34 in .22 'I' Frame
Model 18 in .22 'K' Frame

These are not the same gun. There are differences in frame size (and therefore handling and carrying characteristics) as well as sights.

The Model 17, with an adjustable rear sight, a six inch barrel with a Patridge front sight and a K frame is one of the best target guns out there. The other revolvers have some of these qualities, but not all of them.

Add a humpback hammer, a 5 screw sideplate, and the long throw action, and you will see why a K-22 Outdoorsman is more desirable than a Model 17, boxed or unboxed. It's not the same gun.

FWIW, the first .22/32 Kit guns were built on an I frame in 1935. These would later become the Model 34 in 1957. In 1961 the J frame was adopted for the Model 34-1.

 

[Hawk]

A month ago I hadn't heard of any of the four. If they're all of roughly equal quality I would guess I'd be best off bidding on the one with the lowest starting price? Assuming I wanted a .22 double action and didn't have a big preference on frame size or barrel length?

Is the "I" frame smaller than the "J" or was it just a naming convention?

If one wanted something similar to the 17, it'd be the "K" frame 18? The other two appear to be "carry weapons" as opposed to "plinkers" or "target guns".

Eddington had it right.

Edited to add: Thanks XB, I was typing while you were posting.

 

[machinisttx]

All unfired.
Model 43 in .22 'J' Frame
Model 34 in .22 'I' Frame
Model 18 in .22 'K' Frame

Ranging in starting price from 450.00 to 550.00. Is the hundred bucks just based on production numbers? Or maybe cult status?

Model 18's feature a 4" barrel, and are more representative of the 4" M19/M66 than the longer M17. 4" guns have always been more desirable to the majority of sixgunners. I'm looking for a M18 myself since I have far more 4" K frames than anything else, and I'd like to practice more for less money.

 

[machinisttx]

If one wanted something similar to the 17, it'd be the "K" frame 18? The other two appear to be "carry weapons" as opposed to "plinkers" or "target guns".

The 18 carries a 4" barrel instead of the 6" barrel of the M17. Make no mistake though, the M18 shoots every bit as good as it's longer barreled brother.

 

[Hawk]

I'm looking for a M18 myself since I have far more 4" K frames than anything else, and I'd like to practice more for less money.

Here's one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=103324178

Looks like it's picked up a bid since last I looked.

 

[Hawk]

Add a humpback hammer, a 5 screw sideplate, and the long throw action, and you will see why a K-22 Outdoorsman is more desirable than a Model 17, boxed or unboxed. It's not the same gun.

I'm guessing a 5-screw sideplate on a pre-17 doesn't imply the existance of a long action or humpback hammer.(?)

Specifically, this looks like every other S&W hammer I've seen as does the trigger - is there a way of telling "long action" visually?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102882319

 

[XavierBreath]

I'm guessing a 5-screw sideplate on a pre-17 doesn't imply the existance of a long action or humpback hammer.(?)

Correct.

The long action went away around 1948 or so. The specific time varies among the types of revolvers. It can be recognized in photos by the type of hammer in the gun. The hammer in the gun you referenced appears to be a short or "fast" action hammer. Compare it to a hammer in a Victory model, or the hammer of the first revolver I posted below.

The 5 screw frame disappeared in 1955.

The humpback hammer was a factory option, and a fairly rare one.

The Model 18 had a 4 inch barrel rather than a 6 inch barrel. It also had a Baughman fast draw ramp front sight rather than a Patridge. It was basically a Combat Masterpiece chambered in .22LR rather than .38 special. It's a great carry gun, to take along fishing and hunting. It's made for drawing and shooting. The longer barreled Model 17 with it's Patridge front sight is better suited for target work. The Model 34 (AKA 22/32) is a "kit gun", meaning it is a small framed .22 revolver intended for hiking and such, to be carried in a "kit". The Model 43 is the same 22/32, but with an airweight frame.

The best thing to do is determine which is best for your specific use and purchase that particular gun.


Long Action Hammer, half moon front sight (Pre-Model 10 M&P)


Fast Action Hammers, Patridge front sights (Model 17s)


Fast Action Hammer, Baughman "fast draw" front sight (K-38 Combat Masterpiece)


For giggles, Model 34-1...Fast Action.

 

[Hawk]

The long action hammer looks to be on a revolver with the heavy front cylinder bevel. Did they typically go together or just coincidence?

That 34 looks nice.

My head hurts.
It's a good hurt but it still hurts.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Maybe a model 18 is what I am after. To tell the truth I really like the 4" wheelguns. I know they made a 4" 17 but it was later and had a full lugged barrel. I am with you Hawk, my head hurts, too.

 

[XavierBreath]

The heavy bevel on the cylinder disappeared around 1950 or so. Again, the time frame varies from model to model. Just another little nice feature of the classic S&W revolver that was abandoned to gain production expediency.

The four inch K frame S&W wheel guns do have the best blend of sight radius and handling characteristics for most people.

 

[machinisttx]

Here's one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=103324178

Looks like it's picked up a bid since last I looked.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I view gunbroker as the red headed stepchild of gun trading. It's very doubtful I'll ever buy one of the many overpriced firearms listed there. I know where an 18-3 is with box for $450 + shipping, but IMO, it's overpriced as well.

I've paid significantly less for every firearm I own than what I've seen on gunbroker.