S & W 32 long CTG??

[MikeKeyW]

And yet another "Asker"

I have a 32 S&W Long, Marked # 58 1238 4 on the frame, C 68771 on butt, bbl and cylinder. It is square butt and 5" tapered bbl. It was my uncles, known for his tall tails, he used to tell me it was the one used in the "Faster than a speeding bullet" Superman intro. It does kind of look like it. I know I'm asking but hope to be answering too. I'm more a Colt man, 4 1911's and 2 Python's, 3" and 6" and a AR. I'm still learning how much I don't know. Ask my teenagers...

 

[Old Fuff]

MikeKeyW:

Check the cartridge/caliber markngs on the side of the barrel again. What you describe should be a .38 Special, not a .32 S&W Long. If you are right you have a revolver they supposedly didn't make.

 

[MikeKeyW]

I'm just an anomaly magnet

Actually "32 Long Ctg", I just double checked the #'s with stronger glasses, they're right. My 20" Steyr Mod. S 375 H&H doesn't exist either and my 3" Python's not too far behind. I was guessing mid to late 50's production from what you've said so far. Also there's a "J" stamped on the right side of the grip frame.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't think I can go any further without a picture.

The "Superman" revolver was a .38 Special, Military & Police model with a 4" barrel. They were also made in .32-20 (.32 WCF) but never cataloged in .32 S&W Long, and not with a "C" serial number prefix.

The revolvers in .32 Long came with 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inch barrels before World War Two. After the war when older barrels had been used up they changed to lengths of 2, 3, and 4 inches, but never 5 inches.

With the exception of the Regulation Police model, all of the .32 S&W Long revolvers had round butts.

It is possible that the factory made a special run of K-frame, Military & Police revolvers chambered in .32 S&W Long, and released any over run on the U.S. commercial market. If so, there weren't many, and if you got a factory historical letter that confirmed this your gun would be exceptionally valuable - enough so to pay for the $50.00 letter several times over.

PS: Further research revealed the following:

One of the rarest groups of Military and Police revolvers compleated was manufactured from January 19, 1948 to February 3, 1950. These guns, designated the .32 Military & Police were designed to fire the .32 S&W Long cartridge rather then the .38 Special. The revolver was standard with a 4" barrel, but the firm produced a limited supply of 2" and 5" lengths. When production was completed, the firm had produced a total of 4,813 revolvers. Today one of these revolvers would be a rare find for the Smith & Wesson collector. (History of Smith & Wesson, by Roy G. Jinks; pp:166

My original suggestion of having the revolver lettered is now more stronger then ever. Additional information is available at the Smith & Wesson Co. website at: www.smith-wesson.com

 

[MikeKeyW]

Let me see if I can figure out how to get the pictures in here:






It works in preview post so here goes, or as Dr. Fate in "The Great Race" would say, "Push the button Max..."

 

[Old Fuff]

Your pictures came up fine.

In my view it is without question one of the rare .32 Military & Police, pre-model 10 revolvers made during the middle-late 1940's or early 1950's. With a 5" barrel its collectors' value should be out of sight. But no collector is going to pay out big bucks unless the gun is "lettered" by Smith & Wesson's historian, Roy Jinks. The charge for having him research the gun through Smith & Wesson's records to confirm without question what it is, is now $50.00, and in this case well worth it.

I believe that most of these revolvers were made to fill overseas contracts, and that the gun you have was part of a small over-run. It wasn't ever cataloged for sale in the United States because so large a revolver chambered in .32 S&W Long wouldn't have been particularly popular.

Sorry to have to tell you all of this bad news.... But aren't you glad you joined The High Road?

 

[towhead]

OK, I'm a newbie. I'm trying to save $50 and some time.

My father decided he wanted a holster for his father-in-law's old revolver. I decided to get him one as a gift. I read somewhere that a company called El Paso Saddlery made a holster for John Wayne once so I thought "hey, that should be a quality holster."

So, I filled out the form:

S&W 2 1/2" barrel (measured from the front of the frame; mistake?)
barrel marked .32 long ctg

And I added a note, "Frame is smallish"

Guess what. El Paso Saddlery called and said they needed more information. (I could just hear the guy when he read my form, "Oh no, not another one of these customers!) LOL!)

I've been looking at pictures on the Gun Broker site. The gun looks the most like a S&W .32 Hand Ejector.

Here are all the numbers I could find:

337XXX (not trying to be secretive about the last three but I just wrote down the first three and the gun is 2 hrs away.)

I called my parents and asked them to look for more numbers, they are around 80 years old. Good as gold but eyesight, well you know. They emailed me these.

Two different ones found 557511 under grip or is it S instead of 5 ??

56677 with barrel open

(Now the number I took to be 337XXX is probably what they thought was 557XXX. They said "under the grip" but I doubt they removed the grips. And I found the XX7XXX on the very bottom of the gun. Stamped in the metal between the plastic grips.)

Oh yeah, the gun is nickel (chrome?) and has black plastic grips.
The gun is pretty old.

And I'm guessing what I measured as a 2-1/2" barrel (from front of frame) is actually a 3-1/4" barrel (including frame)?????

Sorry for the long confusing post. But I just want a holster and El Paso Saddlery is waiting.

 

[MikeKeyW]

I'm going to go buy a lotto thicket next!

Old Fluff, you don't know the rest of the story... For me it's like hitting a tri-fecta! It all started with me Googling 3" Colt Python. I knew that was a rare one when I got it in the early 80's ($400.00) but I could never find out more than 1980, lot of 500 from one of my contacts from when I was in the biz (and I was too cheap to spring for the letter). So just a few weeks ago I was able to Google a wealth of information and found it valued at several thousand. Happy happy-Joy Joy, to THR I go! So I started putting some of my other guns through Google, only to discover the recall of my 4" 624! I do my own smithing and had rounded the butt, cut the barrel back to 3 1/2" and fashioned a combat fixed sight out of aluminum bar-stock. The prospect of losing it really upset me but I kept my fingers crossed and when Paul Remillard of S&W gave me a DOB of 2 weeks after the bad batch's cutoff date, I was a happy camper!
Th next to last was the .32, I've always admired the K-32 but thought this to be just a run of the mill Smith with a value of a couple of hundred at best...
I just wish I knew more about it, where my Uncle got it for one thing. He was a Chief Warrant Officer during the war and saw action but he never spoke of anything he did or saw and may have picked the .32 up overseas. The letter will answer that. The site says after Nov. 1st they're accepting but Paul said sometime in 2009. I asked for a clarification on the date and will post when I know something more concrete.
I Have one more gun to research, a Steyr Model S 375 H&H with a twist, it's an uncatalogued 20' CARBINE! Steyr can only tell me it was a special run...
The adventure continues! This sure beats checking on my 401k!
Thanks again for everyone's help, it feels like family here.

 

[Old Fuff]

towhead:

I side with the guy at El Paso Saddlery - good outfit by the way ...

And to think (sniff) that I'm not worth $50.00 (SOB!).

You measure the barrel from the front of the cylinder to the end of the muzzle, so I think that 3 1/2" is likely correct.

Looks to me like you have a Smith & Wesson .32 1903 Hand Ejector, 3rd. Model.

The 3rd. Model variant as made between 1911 and 1942, within a serial number range running from 263,001 to 536,684. After World War Two it became the Model 30 in 1957. I suspect the revolver in question was made during the middle 1920's.

It was made on Smith & Wesson's I-frame, which was similar in size to today's J-frame, but about 3/8" shorter, and the cylinder was only 1.750" long - 6 shot, chambered in .32 S&W Long. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Regular finishes were blue or nickel plate, with nickel being very popular. The stocks are not plastic, but a hard rubber material called gutta percha.

The old El Paso Saddlery Co., which dates back to the 19th century, made a lot of holsters for the little .32 S&W Hand Ejector, but the new guys may have never heard of it. They may or may not have a pattern, but I'm sure they'll do the best that they can.

Anyway, I hope that this answer is worth the money you paid to get it.

Oh, and welcome to The High Road - but be aware we kid around a little bit.

 

[towhead]

Fuff,

Thanks!

Fifty dollars is only the half of it. S&W has a looooong waiting period it seems. Time is money as "they" say. So really really Thank You!

Did I mention Thanks!?

All the best!

Ed

 

[towhead]

Old Fuff,

I'm baaaaaack....

Another day, another dilemma.

A line from your post above,

"They may or may not have a pattern"

was prophetic.

They DO NOT have a pattern.

I guess my next question is predictable,

"Any ideas WHO might be able to make a holster for an "I" frame S&W?"

 

[Old Fuff]

I was afraid of that....

Exactly what kind of holster are you looking for, and how do you expect it will be used? Is fancy tooled leather an issue, or just a plain ordinary one? Safety strap or not?

Help me out with a description...

 

[towhead]

Fuff,

Just a "plain old holster". Leather but nothing fancy. It will probably never be worn on a belt. More than likely will spend its years in a center console compartment, under a seat, etc.
My father just doesn't want the bare gun lying around. But I would say he wants something that is accessible quickly.
I was gonna order the "crossdraw" style holster from El Paso Saddlery.
Thanks again for your help.

(Update: Fuff, I went with a J-frame holster from El Paso. I'm sure it'll be fine. Thanks again.)

 

[skeptiq]

WOW

I am very pleased to be able to find such knowledgable folks!!! I have one for you guys and would be most appreciative if you experts could shed some light on a S&W pistol that was inherited from my father when he passed away. It has what appears to be mother of pearl handles. Here is the info stamped that I can see:

The barrel is stamped: 32 Long CTG
The handle is stamped: 97831
Patent Dates on barrel are: March 27, 1894 - August 4, 1896 - December 22, 1896 - October 8, 1901 - December 17, 1901 - February 8, 1906

The picture is awful, taken with my cell phone this morning, but at least it should give you an idea of what it looks like.

Basically what I am looking for is it's age, model, rarity, and approximate value. I know there are some major issues with the pistol (some pitting, rust, etc). I do not plan on selling the gun, but would like to have it added to home owners. Also, it appears to be pretty old and I would like to know if it's possible to restore something like this. This gun has great sentimental value to me as it was my fathers.

Thanks in advance!
Ben

 

[skeptiq]

Regarding my post above... I went back and looked at the yoke, and here is the number stamped there: 50287

Thanks again!
Ben

 

[thumper1977]

My father in law has a 32 long ctg, serial # 157589, nickle or chrome, 3"barrel guessing, walnut diamond grip, hinge # 5064, fixed sights, 6 shot, pat#mar 27th 94, aug 4th 96, dec 22nd 98, oct 8th 01, dec 17th 01, feb 6th 06, sep 14th 09 he is wanting to know a little about it because it came from his father, date and value approx.

 

[Old Fuff]

skeptiq:

Darn! You may have been missed. Sorry 'bout that.

Anyway, you have a Smith & Wesson .32 1903 Hand Ejector, 4th Change.

These were manufactured in or around 1910, within a serial number range running from 96,126 to 102,500. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Cataloged finishes were blue or nickel plate. The 6-shot cylinder was chambered to use .32 S&W Long cartridges. Standard stocks were made from black hard-rubber, but it appears that in your case they were replaced with mother-of-pearl.

Given it's condition, it is only worth about $150 to $200 on the open market, but of course much more to you. It could be restored, but the cost would exceed the value of the gun if it was done right. Older revolvers were carried and used, and what you see is honest wear. I wouldn't worry about it. If you want more precise information I suggest you have the gun "lettered" by Smith & Wesson. This is how you go about it:

Given this gun's history within your family, I suggest that you get it "lettered." To do so you will need a snapshot of the gun, a full description including the serial number on the butt, and a check in the amount of $50.00 made out to Smith & Wesson. In exchange the company's historian, Roy G. Jinks, will research the original records (which are not computerized by the way) and send you a letter containing the details of what he finds.

This comprehensive document will contain an overview of the model’s history, followed by the details of your particular gun. This usually includes the caliber, barrel length, finish, and the exact date it was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor or dealer. If there are any special features they will be listed too. This information is often invaluable to both you and future generations.

Additional information on a historical letter will be found at the Smith & Wesson company website at:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=11101&content=25301&sectionId=10504

 

[Old Fuff]

thumper1977:

Your Father in Law has a Smith & Wesson .32 1903 Hand Ejector, 5th change.

These were made between 1910 and 1917, within a serial number range running from 102,501 to around 263,000. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. (Measure the barrel from the front cylinder face to the end of the muzzle). Cataloged finishes were blue or nickel plate. The 6-shot cylinder was chambered to use .32 S&W Long cartridges. Standard stocks were made from black hard-rubber. Walnut stocks are a bit unusual, unless they are square at the bottom and wrap around the frame where the serial number is stamped. This is a case where a picture would help. Value would depend on its condition.

 

[thumper1977]

old fuff here are a few pics that i took with my phone a couple of days ago and just sent them to my computer so that they could be attached for you to get a better idea of what my father in law has and a guestimate of what it is worth would be nice, plus i am hoping he will give it to me i think it would make a nice conceal to carry piece as oppossed to my p95 and thanks for all your help!!!! And i assume that it is a 31/2 barrel

 

[Old Fuff]

Well a picture can tell you a lot...

First it confirms my original identification, and the barrel should be 3 1/4 from the front of the cylinder to the end of the muzzle.

The walnut stocks are newer then the revolver, and likely date from the 1930's to as late as the middle 1940's. I also believe the pistol was nickel plated after it left the factory. The clue is that the hammer and trigger appear to be nickel plated, where factory nickeled guns had color case-hardened hammers and triggers. But given the quality of the picture (which isn't all that bad) and bounce from the flash, I could be mistaken.

If the bore and chambers are O.K. and there are no mechanical problems I would value it around $275 - $325. The stocks themselves could be worth $75.00 or more to a collector looking for a pair to fit a gun in his/her collection. If the gun was refinished that would lessen the value to a collector, but not necessarily a shooter. They are easy guns to carry, and very accurate. You may be surprised.

 

[pacefe]

I also got one

Hi,
maybe you can help me.

My gun has stamped on the barrel 32 long cgt.
SN is 30788, stamped below barrel, back of cilinder and under the grip.
Barrel is 2 and 1/2 inches long.

Regards and thanks in advance,
Pablo

 

[HammerheadNC]

32 ctg

I have a 32 CTG from my grandfather. I cannot find any numbers other than serial 102xxx. I check the smith and wesson history link but it says make sure it is a genuine s&w. I am attaching pics to verify. Higher resolution pics can be seen on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/hammerhead_72/sets/72157614958993355/

 

[Radagast]

HammerheadNC: You have a .32 S&W safety hammerless 2nd model. Also known as a lemon squeezer or New Departure.
It was manufactured between 1902 & 1909 in the serial number range 91418 to 170000.
Caliber is .32 S&W, not .32 S&W long.

Value per the Standard Catalog of S&W is around $235, but check the online auction sights to get a more current picture of value.

 

[Radagast]

Pacefe, is your gun a swing out cylinder or a top break variety? Is it marked with a trade mark such as the S&W monogram or the Colt pony? Does it have any patent dates or an address stamped on it? Any of the above will help identify it.

 

[HammerheadNC]

Thanks for the quick response!!