S&W 627 Problems & Quality Control Issues?

[LouisianaGunner12]

I've been considering getting a current production S&W 627 PC 5" barrel. It's the stainless 8 shot.

I've been looking into S&W reviews lately and people seem to be complaining about their quality control, even with PC models. Canted barrels, poor crowning, etc.

Of particular concern are the stories of the internal lock malfunctioning and rendering the gun useless. I know the lock is removable, but the point still stands.
Some friends I've asked have said new S&W's are junk and not to get one. Others say I'm being ridiculous and that new S&W's are fine.

I would like this revolver as sort of a home defense weapon, so quality and reliability is of paramount importance. Should I not get a new S&W, or should I buy with confidence?

 

[codefour]

Early last year, I bought a 5 inch 627 PC. After two trips back to S&W for warranty work, it finally shoots ok.

I bought the gun to use as a deer handgun (California coastal deer). I tried to zero the sights at 50 yards. It shot 4-5 feet left at 50 yards! I could see the barrel was visibly crooked pointing left. I sent it back, S&W replaced the frame and I shot it again. After the warranty repair, it only shot 18 inches to the left at 50 yards.

So, off it went back to S&W again. Five weeks later, it came back with a new barrel and a much nicer looking crown.

Now my 627 PC shoots nice one to two inch groups at 25 yds depending on the ammo used.

$1200+ for a "custom" gun that had to go back twice for warranty repair was a little disheartening. But that's just my recent experience with S&W quality control. I also had problems with a recent 360 purchase.

 

[MartinS]

Got a new MIM Lock 442. Speaks loud, shoots straight.

 

[18DAI]

I'd find a nice 27-2 instead. More gun for less money.

The current company calling itself S&W, is not your daddy's S&W.

 

[MrBorland]

Hooboy. Lessee...

IMO, newer S&Ws may not have the fit and finish of older ones, but in general, they function as well and are just as accurate as older ones.

So, what about all these new guns that seem to have issues? First, I'm not sure that their manufacturing process is the issue, so much as their ability to catch problems before they go out the door. Chances are you won't have an issue, but it can be aggravating to have to send a new gun back if you do - in this event, though, S&W generally does a good job of fixing problems when they're contacted.

S&W also runs into problems, IMO, by selling some idea that their PC guns are a big cut above their regular revolvers. Given the marketing & price, people believe they're buying custom handfitted jewels. They ain't. They receive a little extra tuning, but it's nothing a decent gunsmith can't do. And they don't seem to have all-forged internals any longer, either. None of this is really a problem per se, because they work great regardless, but, as mentioned, peoples' expectations are quite high.

Finally, The Lock: There have been reports of The Lock engaging on lightweight and heavy recoiling revolvers, but it's highly unlikely it's something you'd have to worry about on a 5" 627. If you are worried about it, it can be removed.

 

[9mmepiphany]

First I'd like to echo MrBorland's post. His opinion is based on a pretty wide range of experience of real world use.

Then I'd like to post some pictures of a friend's 627s for the drooling factor

I've been considering getting a current production S&W 627 PC 5" barrel. It's the stainless 8 shot.

Like these?

I'd find a nice 27-2 instead. More gun for less money.

...or this?

 

[627PCFan]

Ive had no issues regarding an of the PC's Ive handled and shot.

In regards to the IL, I have mine still in my gun, and have shot everything from 110gn 357s to full bore, hot as you can go 180 grain loads and everything in between, about 7k rounds worth. Not a neary of a lock issue to date.

The IL is a non-issue, been talked about to death.

 

[LouisianaGunner12]

Early last year, I bought a 5 inch 627 PC. After two trips back to S&W for warranty work, it finally shoots ok.

I bought the gun to use as a deer handgun (California coastal deer). I tried to zero the sights at 50 yards. It shot 4-5 feet left at 50 yards! I could see the barrel was visibly crooked pointing left. I sent it back, S&W replaced the frame and I shot it again. After the warranty repair, it only shot 18 inches to the left at 50 yards.

So, off it went back to S&W again. Five weeks later, it came back with a new barrel and a much nicer looking crown.

Now my 627 PC shoots nice one to two inch groups at 25 yds depending on the ammo used.

$1200+ for a "custom" gun that had to go back twice for warranty repair was a little disheartening. But that's just my recent experience with S&W quality control. I also had problems with a recent 360 purchase.

^This is enough to make me not want to buy a new production S&W. I don't care if they eventually fix the gun, I still wouldn't trust it. Who knows how many corners they cut on their guns, especially fixing them? Plus, for $1,200 I could get a like new model 27 or something and have money left over for ammo (although in today's market good luck find any)

I've been wanting an N frame .357 and really like the thought of 8 shots. Maybe I should just get a pre lock/MIM Model 27 or 28, but I just wish I had 8 shots!

 

[MrBorland]

Check out the classifieds for a used one on the Enos forum. The BE forum is geared towards competition, and since the 627 is a popular match gun, they show up for sale there occasionally (a quick search showed 3 posted in February). In most cases, they're lightly-used, but used enough to know whether there's an issue with it. And they're often offered after being further tuned, and/or with many extra goodies, e.g. extra moonclips, demooner, grips, brass, holster, etc.


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/

 

[Alizard]

I bought the PC version of the 627 with 5" barrel. It was bad enough that I will never buy another SW product. The barrel-cylinder gap was fitted by some monkey who took a mill file to the end of the barrel and chewed up the underside of the top strap.

The MIM trigger lever was defective and chewed up the socket in the rebound slide.

The worst defect: the frame was not square and there was insufficient clearance between the cylinder and breech face and fired brass dragged and siezed up the cylinder. That was the worst, I had to stone the breech face by hand and square it up to get enough clearance for the brass rims to rotate.

The other problem I am seeing on all new SW revos is that the sideplates are fitted so tight they can't be removed or replaced without severe contortions. It takes me about an hour to shave the sideplate edges to where they go on as they should.

I am a gunsmith and was able to fix it (it took a lot of work) but getting that on a brand new $1300 gun showed me that SW no longer knows how to make a decent gun, not even in the performance center. I am done for good with SW.

 

[LouisianaGunner12]

Never mind. I'm not buying a new S&W.

I'll stick with pre-lock pre-mim. The extra two shots aren't worth it.

 

[627PCFan]

WOW.
Its Smith and Wesson.
and PC no less. They are not line guns.
I HIGHLY doubt anything done to that gun was not done by the Performance Center shop. Anything like described sounds like abuse by the previous gun owner.

 

[rodinal220]

New S&W=

I have purchased three brand new S&W products in the last couple of years.Two were stinkers and had to go back to S&W.One gun was completely replaced and so far it has been OK,still do not trust it completely.The S&W FS M&P 9mm is a POS and way overpriced and shoddy build quality.

I too wanted a 627 PC version but I think I will just shoot SSR cause I have two REAL S&W with 10ks of rounds on each and they ask for more.

S&W has a QC problem across the board.

 

[Alizard]

WOW.
Its Smith and Wesson.
and PC no less. They are not line guns.
I HIGHLY doubt anything done to that gun was not done by the Performance Center shop. Anything like described sounds like abuse by the previous gun owner.

The pictures I posted are from a BRAND NEW 627 PC gun. The only "previous owner" was the min wage monkeys SW now uses to do the gunsmithing at their PC.

Bottom line is that a brand new $1300 gun should not be a fixer upper that needs a bunch of work.

You would not believe the garbage I have seen on the new SW guns. I routinely checked guns at the range. I see barrel-cyl gaps out of spec, barrels not on straight, awful triggers. side plates crushed on so tight you can see the edges of the metal crowning.

BUYER BEWARE.

 

[pctech]

I can confirm that what Alizard saw on his 627PC is not out of the realm of possibilities for new S&W revolvers, even ones from the "performance center".

I have wanted a S&W 625 (of some variety) for a long time now, and even ordered two BRAND NEW examples of them, a 625JM and then a 625PC. (About a year apart)

Both guns had so many defects right out of the box that I did not accept transfer on either one.

Some examples of problems seen on both guns:
(Poorly machined barrel crown, barrel not centered to frame/front sight canted, cylinder to barrel gap out of spec and uneven, machine/tooling marks everywhere, side plate poorly fitted, cylinder stop notches already showing peening from test firing, etc. I could go on. )

Both guns were brand new, ordered from reputable S&W stocking dealers. One of them was less than two weeks old according to the "Test fired cartridge" envelope.

As much as I like some of the revolvers S&W is making, I'm not willing to put up with their non-existent quality control. It's a shame, really.

 

[splithoof]

I have been using a 4" 625 w/lock for a few years now, and it has been perfect. It is not a "JM" version with the ugly tattoo, but something I suspect was assembled from a bunch of leftover parts (there is a mark under the crane that says "629-6"); an e-mail from S&W confirmed that it was a "parts batch gun", but whoever put it together must have known what they were doing, as it is one of the most accurate Smith's I have ever owned.
However, I also bought new a 1911 from them in 2002, and it had to go back for warranty repair after one hundred rounds....

 

[788Ham]

Thank God I found that 4" #15-4 about 4 months ago, I'd never stand for a revolver sent out like that! I was unsure about the #15 when I looked at it, but when I saw how solid it was, I knew I wouldn't find anything like this NIB ! No Hillary Hole either! Sorry for the hosin' you guys are getting.

 

[Alizard]

Some examples of problems seen on both guns:
(Poorly machined barrel crown, barrel not centered to frame/front sight canted, cylinder to barrel gap out of spec and uneven, machine/tooling marks everywhere, side plate poorly fitted, cylinder stop notches already showing peening from test firing, etc. I could go on. )

Same thing I have seen for years on new guns.

I used to think that SW intentionally sent their reject guns to California to punish the state for their gun control laws. Turns out that's not the case, they are just shipping junk. That generous lifetime warranty means they have shifted their "final QA step" to the customer: ship everything and let the customers find the defects.

I was surprised that even the PC guns are crap.

 

[mesinge2]

My 627PC has never failed me and I am pushing 3,000 rds of 357 fired so far.