S&W 63 Cylinder Gap Problem

[Pat Riot]

I got a new model 63 just before Christmas. After firing about 200 rounds through it I found a lot of lead splatter above the barrel under the top strap so I cleaned it up and took it to the range again. I figured the leading was from Rem. Thunderbolt ammo. But then after this range session the leading was worse. I cleaned it up and put it away then last week I took it out and just fired CCI Stingers and Velocitors. No leading (copper jacketed bullets) but when I was looking it over I thought that maybe the chamber’s weren’t lining up. Maybe that was the problem.

Checked for that and they were all just fine.

Then I got out the feeler gauges to check cylinder to barrel gap.
The gap on the left side of the gun is 0.015”.
The gap on the right side is 0.005”.

So looks like I need to send my new Smith & Wesson in for rework.

Left side measurement:

Depth of gauge:


Right side measurement: had to bend it a bit to get the photo


Depth of gauge on the right:


I am wondering if folks at Smith & Wesson just love hearing from their customers so they put these little Easter Egg problems out their just so we can be social...

Aggravating!

 

[JohnKSa]

0.015" is too large--but it's even more of a problem that it's not the same on both sides. If I were you, I would include those pictures with the gun when you send it back.

 

[Pat Riot]

0.015" is too large--but it's even more of a problem that it's not the same on both sides. If I were you, I would include those pictures with the gun when you send it back.

Yes, definitely, thank you. I will send these pictures.

 

[Pat Riot]

It’s funny. I always thought 0.005” was the max gap on a decent revolver. I found this document that says 0.006 - 0.010” is within spec. Either way, my 63 needs to go back for repairs.

https://friedmanhandguntraining.com/Gun_Maintenance/S&W_revolver_inspection.pdf

 

[JohnKSa]

There are varying opinions about what is too large, but these days, S&W is telling people that 0.01" is acceptable in their revolvers.

 

[ThomasT]

No leading (copper jacketed bullets) but when I was looking it over I thought that maybe the chamber’s weren’t lining up.

There are no copper jacketed 22rf bullets. Only copper washed. The only 22rf ammo that has a real copper jacket is 22 mag ammo. And yes the cylinder gap is too wide. I have an old flat latch model 34-1 made in the early 60s that has a gap so tight that light has to crawl through it. Its around .003 IIRC.

Those are great pictures by the way.

 

[Jonesy814]

I am active on a S&W forum. Recently someone posted there about a new model 19 with the same problem. That gun has a 2 piece barrel. S&W replaced the barrel sleeve and the gun was returned with even B/C gap of .006

 

[TTv2]

S&W may as well have the truck that ships revolvers just circle around the block and then drive them back to the factory for the 2nd inspection.

Pretty obvious that S&W is not test firing or doing 100% inspections on their guns, we get to do that job for them. That's the nature of revolver manufacturing in the 21st Century.

 

[JERRY]

higher pressure rounds need a bigger gap. a .22lr can get by with .004" but most are closer to .006". neither of that matters when the cylinder face or forcing cone aren't true to each other. send it back I say. I also bet this is a newer made gun.

 

[jdavis123]

Sadly, yours is not an uncommon problem. I have a 629 that came with a similar uneven forcing cone. A call to S&W got a return postage label and the gun went back. I indicated that I wanted and even B/C gap of .005 or .006 if possible. Several weeks later the gun arrived with and even .005 B/C gap. S&W will take care of you but, it is a shame that things like this slip through their Q.C.

 

[Aim1]

Sadly, yours is not an uncommon problem. I have a 629 that came with a similar uneven forcing cone. A call to S&W got a return postage label and the gun went back. I indicated that I wanted and even B/C gap of .005 or .006 if possible. Several weeks later the gun arrived with and even .005 B/C gap. S&W will take care of you but, it is a shame that things like this slip through their Q.C.

Was it the same gun?

How do you fix that?

 

[ontarget]

Probably with a new barrel that was machined squarely.

 

[JohnKSa]

Or even the original barrel that has been set back a little bit and squared up. It would only take setting it back 0.015" to have enough length on the forcing cone to machine it off square.

That assumes, of course, that the problem is with the barrel/forcing cone.

 

[Bill460]

My S&W Model 63 gauges around .004 consistently across the barrel face. (1985 no lock Model). The downside to that closeness of a fit on a .22 L.R. revolver, is after several hundred rounds I have to clean both the barrel face, as well as the front of the cylinder. If I don't the gun will start binding up.

When it first happened I thought the gun was going out of time. The amount of rounds before this happens varies with the "dirtiness" of the ammo. Plated high velocity rounds like Mini Mags or CCI Velociter's go longer than the non plated, bargain basement bulk stuff.

I use Lead Away patches for this. It only takes a couple, and about 5 or 10 minutes of elbow grease and it's clean and good to go.

 

[jdavis123]

Was it the same gun?

How do you fix that?

Typically the barrel would be removed and the forcing cone would be recut a few thousandths of an inch to square the face. The barrel would be put on a lathe and turned down the amount necessary to bring the forcing cone to the desired B/C gap and meet the frame and barrel tightly together.

 

[Pat Riot]

There are no copper jacketed 22rf bullets. Only copper washed. The only 22rf ammo that has a real copper jacket is 22 mag ammo. And yes the cylinder gap is too wide. I have an old flat latch model 34-1 made in the early 60s that has a gap so tight that light has to crawl through it. Its around .003 IIRC.

Those are great pictures by the way.

I misspoke. CCI Stinger and Velocitor have “copper plated” bullets. I guess that means thicker than “copper washed” but probably not as thick as “copper jacketed”.

Either way, these rounds never lead my barrels.

 

[Pat Riot]

higher pressure rounds need a bigger gap. a .22lr can get by with .004" but most are closer to .006". neither of that matters when the cylinder face or forcing cone aren't true to each other. send it back I say. I also bet this is a newer made gun.

Oh yeah, brand new. I need to get a photo of the barrel face itself. The “finish” is rough so it appears the barrel was not completely ready for installation.

 

[chicharrones]

I got a new model 63 just before Christmas. After firing about 200 rounds through it I found a lot of lead splatter above the barrel under the top strap so I cleaned it up and took it to the range again. I figured the leading was from Rem. Thunderbolt ammo. But then after this range session the leading was worse. I cleaned it up and put it away then last week I took it out and just fired CCI Stingers and Velocitors. No leading (copper jacketed bullets) but when I was looking it over I thought that maybe the chamber’s weren’t lining up. Maybe that was the problem.

Checked for that and they were all just fine.

Then I got out the feeler gauges to check cylinder to barrel gap.
The gap on the left side of the gun is 0.015”.
The gap on the right side is 0.005”.

So looks like I need to send my new Smith & Wesson in for rework.


I am wondering if folks at Smith & Wesson just love hearing from their customers so they put these little Easter Egg problems out their just so we can be social...

Aggravating!

I'm sorry this happened to you, Pat Riot.

I'd guess that most guns I've purchased since 2008 have need finishing QC or fixin'. All guns I bought new from the early 1990s up to 2006 needed no extra work.

I really don't like the current state of gun maker's QC at all in the 21st century, and these revolvers aren't gettin' any cheaper (bustin' inflation calculators too). Apparently many gun makers must think most buyers aren't going to shoot them much, so customer provided QC is their business model.

 

[Pat Riot]

Apparently many gun makers must think most buyers aren't going to shoot them much, so customer provided QC is their business model.

You know, I really do think the same thing. It’s almost as if they think we want to only look at the guns and not actually use them. Perhaps someone at S&W thinks that people only buy their revolvers to collect them or something.

Tomorrow they will hear from me when I call them. I do plan to ask to speak with a manager once I get my RMA and shipping set up. I am also going to send a letter to their President in the corporate office.

You don’t build brand loyalty through mediocrity and stupidity.

 

[ThomasT]

I misspoke. CCI Stinger and Velocitor have “copper plated” bullets. I guess that means thicker than “copper washed” but probably not as thick as “copper jacketed”.

No problem. A real jacket would make 22 ammunition too expensive so the copper wash or copper plating can be done at a reasonable price.

And I am sure S&W will make your gun right. They have a great reputation and so far as I have heard a quick turn around time.

 

[Aim1]

What are these gauges called and where can I get some cheap?

 

[Bill460]

What are these gauges called and where can I get some cheap?

Feeler gauges can be purchased at any auto parts store inexpensively.

 

[Pat Riot]

And I am sure S&W will make your gun right. They have a great reputation and so far as I have heard a quick turn around time.

I am sure they will. It’s just frustrating. I have bought 3 “new” S&W revolvers in the past few years and by “new” I mean new configuration with the internal lock. And all 3 have had to go back for something. Since the first 2 came back from the factory they have been excellent firearms.

It won’t dissuade me from future purchases but I will pay closer attention in the future.

 

[ThomasT]

Its still tough to buy a new gun and have to have it worked on. Its like the old saying "why is there never time to do a job right but always time to do it over?"

I bought a pre lock 629 and the ejector rod wobbled like crazy. I called S&W and they sent me a shipping label and told me as long as it locked up it wouldn't hurt anything. But I didn't like it. I spun the cylinder and used a magic marker to mark the high side of the wobble. Then I braced the cylinder with the high side up and whacked it with a rubber mallet. It spun straight as an axle after that and no trip back. I bet thats all they would have done.

 

[chicharrones]

Its still tough to buy a new gun and have to have it worked on. Its like the old saying "why is there never time to do a job right but always time to do it over?"

I bought a pre lock 629 and the ejector rod wobbled like crazy. I called S&W and they sent me a shipping label and told me as long as it locked up it wouldn't hurt anything. But I didn't like it. I spun the cylinder and used a magic marker to mark the high side of the wobble. Then I braced the cylinder with the high side up and whacked it with a rubber mallet. It spun straight as an axle after that and no trip back. I bet thats all they would have done.

Because people like you and me will fix it ourselves no matter if it takes only minutes or it takes many hours. I just hate being without a new faulty gun if I can fix it myself and have it ready that day. It's frustrating as hell, though.

Now if the manufacturers would price their guns into two categories, such as "ready to go - full price" and "you make it better - 39.98% discount", I could live with that and I would buy accordingly. I guess S&W already does that with their Performance Center guns.