S&W Governor?

[Viper1357]

Sorry all you Taurus fans but their workmanship is shoddy at best in comparison to S&W‘s.

Buy the Governor! Forget the Judge.

"Shoddy" def: Poorly made or done.
Seems kinda harsh don't you think?
No doubt the Governor is much more refined and a better build over all but for $200+ more in cost it better be.
It seems nice to have a choice in either budget friendly or higher end options.
Lastly I wonder which company has sold more?

 

[mcb]

The joke goes that Taurus Revolvers are great you just need three of them. One to shoot, one as a backup in the range bag, and one back at Taurus being repaired, rotate frequently!

My bother has a Taurus Model 44 in 44 Mag and my father has an Aluminum framed Judge. Both have been good reliable revolvers. It's not until you hold my Brothers Taurus Model 44 right next to my S&W M29 do you see and feel the deficiencies of the Taurus. Taurus are IMHO very serviceable but they do not have the refined fitment that the S&W have, even compared to relatively newer S&W. Now I am a huge S&W fanboy so take all that rambling with what ever size grain of salt you need.

 

[AK103K]

"Shoddy" def: Poorly made or done.
Seems kinda harsh don't you think?
No doubt the Governor is much more refined and a better build over all but for $200+ more in cost it better be.
It seems nice to have a choice in either budget friendly or higher end options.
Lastly I wonder which company has sold more?

I would say shoddy was pretty accurate and not harsh. And thats coming from experience. I wount buy another Taurus and if someone gave me one, Id trade or sell it right off.

If S&W never made the Governor, I would have never bothered.

"Budget" options almost always end up costing you more in time and money in the long run. As the old saying goes, "only a rich guy can afford to buy cheap stuff...over, and over, and over...". Buy once, cry once.

The other thing that often seems to be overlooked, is the aggravation of dealing with CS. Ive dealt with both S&W and Taurus's CS departments. If something should go south, that extra $200 spent on the S&W, is money well spent.

 

[Gordon]

I would say shoddy was pretty accurate and not harsh. And thats coming from experience. I wount buy another Taurus and if someone gave me one, Id trade or sell it right off.

If S&W never made the Governor, I would have never bothered.

"Budget" options almost always end up costing you more in time and money in the long run. As the old saying goes, "only a rich guy can afford to buy cheap stuff...over, and over, and over...". Buy once, cry once.

The other thing that often seems to be overlooked, is the aggravation of dealing with CS. Ive dealt with both S&W and Taurus's CS departments. If something should go south, that extra $200 spent on the S&W, is money well spent.

I guess I got lucky with my older Taurus Stainless Public Defender. While I am not cranking out a big round count with it, EVER in my life, I will shoot a couple hundred each year . The build quality is as good as many of the S&W revolvers I have seen in last few years. I paid $400 for it with the special case and two grips and holster. I did care inspection before I bought it and was shocked with the manufacturing quality . I'll pull it out from in the bedside locker (with the light mounted 1911 next to it ) and get some pictures. I think the federal 4 pellet 000 buck is awesome up to 50 feet , yes I would take a hostage shot at up to 21 feet with it , reliable 3" max spread at that distance to the sights ! with .45 Cold 225 loads make it 50 feet !

 

[AK103K]

Hey, they all have good guns and bad. Its just some have more of each than others.

Dealing with the company and how they handle things, can also make a big difference in an already sour experience.

S&W has had a pretty good (not perfect, but still good) rep over the years, both guns and CS. Taurus on the other hand, not so much, either way.

And with any of them, you pay your money and take your chances. I wonder what the odds are in Vegas on Taurus these days?

 

[mcb]

Hey, they all have good guns and bad. Its just some have more of each than others.

Dealing with the company and how they handle things, can also make a big difference in an already sour experience.

S&W has had a pretty good (not perfect, but still good) rep over the years, both guns and CS. Taurus on the other hand, not so much, either way.

And with any of them, you pay your money and take your chances. I wonder what the odds are in Vegas on Taurus these days?

Given they closed their Miami Florida plant and got rid of the entire US bases engineering group, probably going down...

 

[Viper1357]

I would say shoddy was pretty accurate and not harsh. And thats coming from experience. I wount buy another Taurus and if someone gave me one, Id trade or sell it right off.

If S&W never made the Governor, I would have never bothered.

"Budget" options almost always end up costing you more in time and money in the long run. As the old saying goes, "only a rich guy can afford to buy cheap stuff...over, and over, and over...". Buy once, cry once.

The other thing that often seems to be overlooked, is the aggravation of dealing with CS. Ive dealt with both S&W and Taurus's CS departments. If something should go south, that extra $200 spent on the S&W, is money well spent.

Guess your experience is different from mine and others here and you seem to be very experienced in your own way. Too bad opinions are not actually facts I guess. but anyways, I stand by what I wrote with nearly 50 years of my own manufacturing, gunsmithing, buying, shooting and the like experiences. If you read a lot of my posts, you'll see the majority of my "shoddy type" gun purchasing quality/manufactured bad builds I've dealt with have actually come from S&W and Ruger as hard as that would be to believe. But that's just my experiences.

 

[AK103K]

Too bad opinions are not actually facts I guess.

And often they are. Whether you like it or not.

I try my best to base mine on actual experience, and my personal experience (and that of a couple of people Im close to and trust) with Taurus wasnt good, both in quality and customer service.

Right now, I have about 20 S&W's, and most of them are revolvers. Had quite a few more in the past too over the years. Rarely had any issues with them. In the 45 years or so Ive been dealing with them on my dime, Ive sent two back (a 940 in the 90's and more recently, and M&P 15-22), and both times S&W took care of things, and fairly quickly.

Like anything else, they arent perfect, but they do seem to be head and shoulders above Taurus.

But, if you have and like Taurus, and they work well for you, Im happy for you. Thats what its all about.

 

[Viper1357]

Like anything else, they arent perfect, but they do seem to be head and shoulders above Taurus.

As the prices clearly reflect they should be.

Also, I have way more S&W's than that, so it stands to reason I've statistically gotten a few more lemons than you. Try buying 20 new S&W's today (current mass production methods) and see how your luck holds out smartie.

Lastly, thanks for sharing your seemingly valuable experience and opinions, as I've learned a lot about you.

 

[mcb]

As the prices clearly reflect they should be.

Also, I have way more S&W's than that, so it stands to reason I've statistically gotten a few more lemons than you. Try buying 20 new S&W's today (current mass production methods) and see how your luck holds out smartie!

If your put hands on them before your cash is on the counter you can get 100% good product. Treat them all as used and inspect accordingly.

 

[AK103K]

Try buying 20 new S&W's today (current mass production methods) and see how your luck holds out smartie.

I have a number of the "new" S&W handguns, and havent had a bit of trouble with them. I only had trouble with one gun out of the lot over the years too, and that total is a lot more than 20 guns.

And again, Im basing my experiences on actual use, and not what Ive read or heard somewhere.

How many of the new Smiths youre complaining about have you personally had trouble with and did you have to send them back? How well did Smith handle things, and how long did it take to get things resolved?

 

[Dibbs]

AK103K, how do you find those plastic S&W autos, VS the GEN IIs and GEN IIIs? I just haven't even looked at the new S&W auto-loaders.
Rented one of the new 9mms, a few years back, was sort of "meh'.

 

[AK103K]

While Ive owned a couple, Ive never been a big fan of the S&W autos. The 645 and 422 I owned were both reliable, accurate, and trouble-free though. If I came across one of the nicer older guns for cheap, Id probably bite.

As far as plastic guns go, I prefer Glocks. I keep thinking I'll buy one of the M&P's (and that was just today, a local shop has a couple cheap ) and see how they are, but then I figure, why bother.

 

[Ed Ames]

I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about these revolvers, coming full circle at least twice, before reaching my current opinion: they are a poor choice for people who are limited to shooting at formal ranges. If that’s where you practice, don’t bother. Unfortunately that’s the situation I’m in.

But if you have a place where you can actually use them? Different story. The Governor type revolvers are one of the few ways you can reasonably practice with fast moving above-horizon targets with a handgun, and that’s a gap in training for most people. Honestly, I think if you have a place where you could use one, and don’t, that’s a mistake.

 

[labnoti]

You can get shot cartridges for all the popular revolver chamberings. They .410 is certainly a better shotshell than .38 Special shot cartridges, but if your intention is simply to practice on aerial or above-the-horizon targets, the metallic shot cartridges will work fine.

 

[Ed Ames]

lol yeah you can do that if you are rich and like to be frustrated.

1000 rounds is a reasonable starting point for practicing if you want to get beyond noob skill.

At 1000 rounds, the Governor will cost somewhere around $1200 ammo included.

1000 rounds of .38 special shot ammo will put you back $1400 before you even supply the gun. Get yourself a used model 10 and you are at $1700 for a worse overall training experience.

And of course the governor is the expensive option. You can get a Taurus for half the price.

 

[labnoti]

If you're use a metallic cartridge revolver, it's sunk cost. I already have one, so buying the Governor/Judge would cost me many hundreds of dollars before I even bought the first shot cartridge. With CCI shotshell cartridges or components (the plastic caps to reload your own), all my money goes to ammo. The preloaded cartridges are quite costly because there is little economy of scale. Few people buy "snake" cartridges in the kind of bulk you're talking about for training. The plastic capsules are not so expensive. So while the pre-loaded cartridges are maybe $1.25 per round, the capsules are $0.18 on top of about seven to ten cents for powder, primer and shot. This makes them about the same cost as the cheapest .410 bore shotshells.

 

[Ed Ames]

If we’re comparing handloads, .410 can be handloaded for under $150 per thousand. Using your numbers, the .38 shot rounds will be at least $250 per thousand.

Even using your numbers a Governor is going to pay for itself when you count reselling it after use. Plus there is something nice about having the right tool for the job instead of a weak approximation. The shot cartridges are all interior to even the most basic 410 load.

 

[labnoti]

but what is the point of the above-the-horizon training you proposed? If I don't carry a Governor, it would be more valuable to do it with the gun I do carry. The Governor might perform better or cost a little less, but I would still rather train with what I carry. The preloaded metallic shotshell ammo is costly. The reloading components are very affordable. As long as its affordable, being cheaper still isn't a big advantage. For me, the Governor might be a fair approximation to the S&W revolver I carry, but if I carried an M&P 2.0 Shield, I'd want to do this training with it, and I'd use CCI 9mm shotshells. The Governor wouldn't be a good approximation.

 

[Dibbs]

lol yeah you can do that if you are rich and like to be frustrated. ??
From somebody who doesn't own one, and obviously hasn't fired one...

1000 rounds is a reasonable starting point for practicing if you want to get beyond noob skill.
I'll take "noob skill", because the Governor shoots to POA.

And of course the governor is the expensive option. You can get a Taurus for half the price.

If you prefer cheap firearms, Taurus is the way to go.

 

[Ed Ames]

but what is the point of the above-the-horizon training you proposed?

The important point was ”moving”, not “above-the-horizon”. Above-the-horizon is nice (simulates responding to someone shooting from a rooftop) but incidental.

It would certainly be nicer to practice with the gun you carry, but it’s better to get useful practice with an effective practice tool and then apply the skill to your daily carry than to have ineffective practice out of an overzealous attempt at purity.

 

[jski]

To a large extent the continuing popularity of the Governor has to be attributed to the improvement of ammo for it. In particular, the 410 shot shells.

 

[Dibbs]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IMO, it's an imposing looking firearm. That thing is a handful and a half of pistol. The massive cylinder makes it look like
a Navy deck gun.

 

[TTv2]

To a large extent to continuing popularity of the Governor has to be attributed to the improvement of ammo for it. In particular, the 410 shot shells.

The only improvement in .410 for the Judge/Governor has been Federal making ammo specific for handguns, but that's only #4 and 000 Buck. That's in regards to non-gimmick ammo, I know Hornady made that slug with two round balls and that seems good on paper, but in a handgun it's performance is awful. In a longer barrel it seems quite good.

The Winchester PDX1 stuff was just... bizarre. What were they thinking? Flat discs are terrible and the BB's were useless. You'd be better off using either all birdshot or all buckshot.

Where I really think the Judge/Governor has improved ammo is with .45 Colt. It seems every .45 Colt defense load that has been made the past 10 years has been made to expand at the velocities that the short barrel .410 handguns have, which means in longer barrel .45 Colt revolvers they'll work too.

I can't say that something like .44 Special has seen much improvement in defense ammo in that same 10 year period. I only know of Hornady making a load for .44 Spl in Critical Defense.

 

[jski]

I’m thinking of Federal’s #4 shot for 410 self defense ammo.