wow6599
Member
I have to ask if anybody here owns, or owned, a S&W that had the IL seize up the gun. Please, no second hand stories........have YOU ever had one lock up?
S&W IL question
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oldfool
Member
for all the passion that subject inspires without fail, every time, I was betting your poll might well turn out to have the all time lowest "turnout" vote in history
those who simply refuse to buy one w/ ILS cannot very well vote honestly
those who do have them and have ever personally had (or even personally witnessed) subject failure mode pretty qualify as hen's teeth
any revolver owner should rightly be concerned about any/all proper handgun function questions, and anybody reporting legit issues should be regarded as doing us all a favor
yet, so far as Google can find, it would seem hen's teeth are indeed mighty rare... (last time I wasted time on that, looked like maybe a grand total of two semi-documented cases, if that)
surf searching "hit by lightning out of a clear blue sky" will produce far more productive results
not that any of that is going to change anyone's mind, of course
a lot like the kaboom thing amongst our semi-auto brethren
me, I do not fear the infernal lock
but, then again, I am never going to spend my dollar on a 40 caliber glock
go figger
ain't the same thing as ammo, you know... many of us are perfectly willing to "leave some for the other/next guy" when it comes to handgun make/model
those who simply refuse to buy one w/ ILS cannot very well vote honestly
those who do have them and have ever personally had (or even personally witnessed) subject failure mode pretty qualify as hen's teeth
any revolver owner should rightly be concerned about any/all proper handgun function questions, and anybody reporting legit issues should be regarded as doing us all a favor
yet, so far as Google can find, it would seem hen's teeth are indeed mighty rare... (last time I wasted time on that, looked like maybe a grand total of two semi-documented cases, if that)
surf searching "hit by lightning out of a clear blue sky" will produce far more productive results
not that any of that is going to change anyone's mind, of course
a lot like the kaboom thing amongst our semi-auto brethren
me, I do not fear the infernal lock
but, then again, I am never going to spend my dollar on a 40 caliber glock
go figger
ain't the same thing as ammo, you know... many of us are perfectly willing to "leave some for the other/next guy" when it comes to handgun make/model
Nope.
I've owned 7 j-frames in my lifetime and 5 of those had or currently have the IL. Never had a lock engage all by itself and i've put around 10K rounds total through the guns.
I'd prefer to not have the IL but that doesn't mean that i've had any problems with them. I just like the guns so much that I put up with the IL.
I've owned 7 j-frames in my lifetime and 5 of those had or currently have the IL. Never had a lock engage all by itself and i've put around 10K rounds total through the guns.
I'd prefer to not have the IL but that doesn't mean that i've had any problems with them. I just like the guns so much that I put up with the IL.
cottonmouth
Member
Nope, 25 of the 26 are not cursed with the lock just my 500. Or it was, I ordered the plug for it and did away with the lock.
J.B.
J.B.
Erich
Member
Yes. My experience with my 60-15 is well-documented on the intertubz, so I'll spare us all another recitation of it.
aHFo3
Member
I voted Yes, simply because one time when I insert and turned that blasted little key, the gun locked up on me. 
OP
OP
wow6599
Member
User error doesn't count
rswartsell
Member
Would have been even more interesting to exclude ultra light magnums.
FoMoGo
Member
I have never had an issue... but I remove the locks... just in case.
Wont stop me from buying a new one if I see one that tickles my fancy.
Jim
Wont stop me from buying a new one if I see one that tickles my fancy.
Jim
I think you miss the point:
No, I haven't had a S&W revolver freeze because I don't have one with the internal lock. If I did, it wouldn't be an issue because I would make it a non-issue in quick order.
But I don't like the lock because it's an unnecessary addition to the system that might fail. Earlier production followed a KISS principal, that in general is a strong advantage of revolvers in general. In any firearm that will be, or even might be used as a defensive weapon I don't like the addition of any unnecessary features or gadgets.
And in my book the lock fits the description of a "totally unnecessary gadget."
But there is no reason to have an argument or debate over the lock. Those that don't like it can buy older Smith & Wesson's or other makes of revolvers that don't have it. Those that don't care, or actually like the lock can buy one of the company's recent or new models. Clearly, everyone should be happy, and no one is obligated to show that the lock does or doesn't work.
The real issue isn't about the lock, it's about the right to choose.
No, I haven't had a S&W revolver freeze because I don't have one with the internal lock. If I did, it wouldn't be an issue because I would make it a non-issue in quick order.
But I don't like the lock because it's an unnecessary addition to the system that might fail. Earlier production followed a KISS principal, that in general is a strong advantage of revolvers in general. In any firearm that will be, or even might be used as a defensive weapon I don't like the addition of any unnecessary features or gadgets.
And in my book the lock fits the description of a "totally unnecessary gadget."
But there is no reason to have an argument or debate over the lock. Those that don't like it can buy older Smith & Wesson's or other makes of revolvers that don't have it. Those that don't care, or actually like the lock can buy one of the company's recent or new models. Clearly, everyone should be happy, and no one is obligated to show that the lock does or doesn't work.
The real issue isn't about the lock, it's about the right to choose.
rswartsell
Member
Fuff,
I have the greatest respect for you, you have forgotten more than I will ever know. However in this case I can't see you telling the OP what his point should be. He clearly wants to know what people with IL revolvers have experienced first hand. By your own admission you can't share IL experience with him.
It seems he is trying a reasonable investigation of fact to make up his mind where he falls on the issue. Would that we were all so reasonable.
I have the greatest respect for you, you have forgotten more than I will ever know. However in this case I can't see you telling the OP what his point should be. He clearly wants to know what people with IL revolvers have experienced first hand. By your own admission you can't share IL experience with him.
It seems he is trying a reasonable investigation of fact to make up his mind where he falls on the issue. Would that we were all so reasonable.
OP
OP
wow6599
Member
.
What was my point? Since you seem to know what it was I will wait for you to let me in on it.
From memory (might be missing a step here):
1. Remove grips.
2. Remove main spring.
3. Remove hammer.
4. Remove bolt.
5. Remove lock cam.
Reverse and you're done. If the ILS is a worry, removing it is pretty darn easy. Nothing you'd need to see a gunsmith for.
1. Remove grips.
2. Remove main spring.
3. Remove hammer.
4. Remove bolt.
5. Remove lock cam.
Reverse and you're done. If the ILS is a worry, removing it is pretty darn easy. Nothing you'd need to see a gunsmith for.
Guillermo
member
Being rude to Old Fuff is not High Road
When one of his standing feels like commenting on your thread you should respect his opinion which are almost always spot on.
And the WOW DID miss the point of post # 6 which Old Fuff was commenting on.
Perhaps brushing up on your reading comprehension is in order before you go off on one of our most informative members.
When one of his standing feels like commenting on your thread you should respect his opinion which are almost always spot on.
And the WOW DID miss the point of post # 6 which Old Fuff was commenting on.
Perhaps brushing up on your reading comprehension is in order before you go off on one of our most informative members.
rswartsell
Member
Doesn't read that way to me. Reads like wow is trying to get first hand experience and his thread is being hijacked by insinuations that he is asking the wrong questions. That's not too High Road either, cloaked in "humor" or not. Strongly opinionated people don't like the impression that would be created if as I suspect the vast majority answer no. That simply wouldn't serve the opinions of S&W IL bashers. They should start their own anti S&W thread if they want to make a different point.
Fuff says its about choice but post 6 and Fuff's comment want you to make your choice with their thumbs on the scale. Posting a bogus vote to screw with his poll attempt isn't the High Road I envision.
Fuff says its about choice but post 6 and Fuff's comment want you to make your choice with their thumbs on the scale. Posting a bogus vote to screw with his poll attempt isn't the High Road I envision.
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OP
OP
wow6599
Member
Guillermo, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I started this thread ONLY for informational purposes. We all hear about S&W IL problems and I just wanted to see how many members have had it happen. That's all. And no, I don't like them just like the next guy......but that's not why I opened the poll.
I also couldn't find any connection between post #6 and Old Fuff's post.
I mean no disrespect to Fluff. I just speak my mind, and the way I see it he called out my thread about the philosophical issues (and mechanical) with S&W's locks.
Regards,
Chris
joeq
Member
I've put a lot of rounds through Smith's with internal locks. I have never had one lock up on me. Not that it could never happen, It just hasn't happened to me.
While I said that I didn't own any S&W revolvers with an internal lock, I didn't mean to imply that I didn't have any experience with them, which I do.
Enough so that I felt qualified to post what I did. I believed that wow9569 was looking for experienced opinions, and I do have hands-on experience.
What I failed to do was explain that I did, and for that oversight I'm sorry.
Guillermo
member
AND in addition...Old Fuff was saying that WOW missed the point of post #6
which he did
which he did
oldfool
Member
We have THREE reported YES votes, so far.
but due to my own misinterpretation, I only see ONE winner so far (relative perspective, you know), post #5
"Erich Martell Says:
August 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Mas, the locks don’t just self-activate when the guns are fired. My early 60-15’s lock self-activated when I oafishly knocked the unloaded gun off a counter onto the hardwood floor. As you know"
OP asked
"that had the IL seize up the gun up"
meaning no offense, nor disrespect, questions are interpretative, and so are answers (every gun I ever fired with any safety on acted pretty much "seized up" to me)
I think post #5 is entirely valid, and to be respected
But it is not the "event" I suspect that many have been inclined to interpret as "mechanical failure" so very widely feared on the internet, but I imply no disrespect to poster Erich's POV , in that respect, any more than I would be inclined to dispute POV of those who reject all cross-bolt safties on lever actions (some of those do have a reputation for "turning themselves on", while others do not, even if many view either as one and the same)
Not saying that is equivalent to running over your Glock with a bulldozer, or pouring sand through your AK. Get a Glock, get an AK, get a Ruger, get and use whatever you trust. Ain't my butt on the line, it's your's. No dispute.
This is the sort of thing I would like to hear more about, to get some feel about how much of is "real" (to me)- failure to fire due to shooting bullets out the muzzle causing failure mode, (perhaps not unlike some unreliable "jammomatic" autos)
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html
model 60-18-7-2007
Only OP knows what OP meant, I do not.
maybe I don't know what I meant, but maybe you do, been known to happen
(think mebbe I do know what the poster w/ smiley meant, but mebbe not, been known to happen)
but I would be real interested in any IL failure believed due to having fired a shot, as in the IL turning itself on when gun was fired, absent dropping gun, or sand, or bulldozer.
I aM probably wrong, but nonetheless suspect some few others might be curious about such
or mebbe not
but due to my own misinterpretation, I only see ONE winner so far (relative perspective, you know), post #5
"Erich Martell Says:
August 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Mas, the locks don’t just self-activate when the guns are fired. My early 60-15’s lock self-activated when I oafishly knocked the unloaded gun off a counter onto the hardwood floor. As you know"
OP asked
"that had the IL seize up the gun up"
meaning no offense, nor disrespect, questions are interpretative, and so are answers (every gun I ever fired with any safety on acted pretty much "seized up" to me)
I think post #5 is entirely valid, and to be respected
But it is not the "event" I suspect that many have been inclined to interpret as "mechanical failure" so very widely feared on the internet, but I imply no disrespect to poster Erich's POV , in that respect, any more than I would be inclined to dispute POV of those who reject all cross-bolt safties on lever actions (some of those do have a reputation for "turning themselves on", while others do not, even if many view either as one and the same)
Not saying that is equivalent to running over your Glock with a bulldozer, or pouring sand through your AK. Get a Glock, get an AK, get a Ruger, get and use whatever you trust. Ain't my butt on the line, it's your's. No dispute.
This is the sort of thing I would like to hear more about, to get some feel about how much of is "real" (to me)- failure to fire due to shooting bullets out the muzzle causing failure mode, (perhaps not unlike some unreliable "jammomatic" autos)
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html
model 60-18-7-2007
Only OP knows what OP meant, I do not.
maybe I don't know what I meant, but maybe you do, been known to happen
(think mebbe I do know what the poster w/ smiley meant, but mebbe not, been known to happen)
but I would be real interested in any IL failure believed due to having fired a shot, as in the IL turning itself on when gun was fired, absent dropping gun, or sand, or bulldozer.
I aM probably wrong, but nonetheless suspect some few others might be curious about such
or mebbe not
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captain awesome
Member
you can order a plug????!!!! link please
I looked into doing a custom job of making the darling little hole "disappear" on my 500, but I am rather nervous about making the attempt on a $1k gun.
I voted no, but to be fair, I removed it before it had a chance to fail.
There is one problem with the issue I see. Yes it is possible to buy older smiths if the lock concerns you, but their are some revolvers that didn't go into production till after the locks came to be. And if you don't like the flag or the gap it leaves when its gone you're out of luck unless you can come up with a way to fill it in. BTW I am open to suggestions on that matter.
earplug
Member
On my N frames the lock is removed because I hollowed out the hammer to reduce lock time. I have chicken finger when shooting SA and i'm a whus at DA.
This removed the ability of the lock to work. So I took the lock out.
For the record I took our 638 to the front door tonight at 8 PM while answering the door bell. This S&W still has the lock and has had no issue.
If you take the lock out, the gap along the hammer will not effect your sight picture.
This removed the ability of the lock to work. So I took the lock out.
For the record I took our 638 to the front door tonight at 8 PM while answering the door bell. This S&W still has the lock and has had no issue.
If you take the lock out, the gap along the hammer will not effect your sight picture.
No reason to hesitate on that score. You remove the lock, press the plug in from the outside of the frame, secure the post in the inside with the supplied retaining clip and you're done. The finish is matched to your specific model and looks factory installed.
I'm curious about both, but separately.
It is a concern, if dropping a carry gun can cause it to lock itself, because a practical weapon that gets carried all the time may drop at some point. I had a 642 fall out of my IWB holster in a Cabela's dressing room when I was trying on some pants, for example.
I'm with the "I don't like it, but I have a couple IL guns that I trust as much as any" crowd, myself. I don't have a 329, but I don't really want a 329, either.
And, like the OP, I'm curious to know how many have locked up, in anyone's actual experience, when fired -- as well as, separately, how many have locked up, in anyone's actual experience, for any other reason besides turning the key.
I have actually used the lock, when, under old NPS rules, I had to have a "disabled or disassembled" gun. There is no good way to disable or disassemble a modern revolver in the field, other than some sort of lock.
What I'm NOT especially interested in is hearing the same rants we've heard 1000 times already. I think we all know what "all right-thinking people are supposed to think."
OP
OP
wow6599
Member
No he wasn't. Take my word for it.
No I didn't
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