S&W M642 Recoil?

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MiGalley

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Thanks to all who responded and the "642 Club" in particular, it has become clear that a new 642 is the solution to my "year-round ccw snubby" deficit.
I'll pick up the M60 and/or the Ruger (not necessarily in that order) later. One can never have too many snubbies, right? ;)

The question now is one of recoil and managability. Neither of my local ranges have a 642 to rent, so I am unable to try before I buy. :( So it goes.

How do your 642s firing .38 spl. +p ammo compare to my usual carry guns and range/carry loads in terms of recoil, muzzle flip, target re-acquisition, etc?

My all-around favorite gun, my favorite loads = SWEEEEEE-EEEEET all-day shooting.
Colt Series 70 Gov't Model
230 gr. Federal Classic FMJ?
200/230 gr. Gold Dots?

(My other carry gun. Most defininitely not my 1911! A reliable, accurate, fistful of jumpin' thumpin'. Not the gun/loads for a day at the range!)
Glock G36
230 gr. Winchester FMJ?
200/230 gr. Gold Dots?

Please feel free to recommend your favorite loads--and those to stay away from.

Many thanks,

MiG
 
I've got the 340 PD, which I believe is lighter than the 642. 38spl +P is fine. You will definitely feel it, but it is very controllable. I wouldn't shoot it all day, though. I usually practice with regular FMJ ammo and then shoot several +Ps at the end of my session. I love this little gun for carry.
 
I would say the recoil is a tad worse with +Ps then your Glock 36. It really isn't all that bad, but recoil is very subjective and I am not recoil sensitive.

Chris
 
I find the recoil from the 642 unpleasant but manageable when firing +Ps. After shooting a box of 50s of +Ps, I'm ready to call it a day. Gloves designed for shooting (like Uncle Mike's) are helpful.
 
Thanks for the input, one and all.

Am I to understand, then, that shooting +Ps in the 642 are a lot like running "serious" carry ammo through the G36: it's a wrestling match that I know can win, and I know that I am going to win . . . but, just the same, it is a wrestling match. ;)

This afternoon I had the opportunity to fire some 50-odd rounds of mixed ammo through a M640. Mostly, .38 spl. and .38 spl.+P. While not soft, I'd say the recoil was certainly not anywhere near as snappy as I had expected and more easily managed than anything through my G36. YMMV

HOWEVER, there were a few .357s in the "salad." Suffice it to say that it's been a few hours and the face in the mirror still has a mildly serious case of the stupified "what-was-thats?" :what: Ya know? A .357 magnum from a 2" barrel generates some fire and bang. :what: :what: Still wondering if I did indeed pay to do that (range rental). lol Those of you who regularly run manly-man rounds through your Airweights and AirLites have my undying respect.

I came away thinking that I may want to reconsider the steel Smiths and the Ruger.

MiG
 
IMO, there's only one good reason to choose a 642 over a 640: its lighter weight, of course. And the lighter weight only becomes an advantage if you're carrying the gun in a pocket or on your ankle; it's a distinct disadvantage in most other circumstances. That said, I own both and if I were forced to give one of them up, I would keep the 642. If I'm going to carry a gun in a holster I have far better choices for self-defense than any of my "J" frames. But where the 642 fills a distinct niche almost no other handgun does as well is pocket/ankle (non-holstered) wear.

However, if arbitrary circumstances required me to own only one handgun and the choice had to be between the 640 and the 642, without a doubt I'd opt for the 640. The 640's a far more versatile revolver that can be toted in a pocket without being too terribly uncomfortable (until you try the 642 :evil: ).
 
My eleven year old shoots +P's out of my 442's. They dont seem to hurt at all but tend to make you hand sore if you shoot alot of them. Ive probably done around 200 reloaded 135's that I'd say are a little hot(Between +P and +P+ velocities)in one day and it just made my hand a little sore where the triggerguard rubs my middle finger. But the worst is my trigger finger just from pulling the trigger.
 
I chose a 642 because it was noticeably lighter than my 649.

I don't like titanium cylinders, even though the do offer a slight further weight reduction.

The trade-off is that my lighter weight 642 offers more felt recoil than my steel-framed 649. Is it more than I can tolerate? No. Is it more than I desire to tolerate for range practice? Again, no ... not under normal conditions and for a reasonable length of time and for a reasonable number of rounds ... and I'd have to say that a Scandium J-frame chambered in .357 Magnum, loaded with Magnum ammunition, is awarded the honor of offering more felt recoil than I personally care to tolerate. ;)

I've demonstrated that I can accurately fire a 3-round rapid-fire string on a regular qualification silhouette, at 10-yards, two-handed, using an Airlite .357 Magnum J-frame, using full-power 125gr Magnum defensive ammunition ... but it wasn't exactly what I'd consider an enjoyable experience. :uhoh:

50-100 rounds of +P ammunition can result in the bottom of my index finger's last knuckle being 'hammered', however, and I'll feel it for a day or two. It's the inside/bottom of the trigger guard rising into the bottom of my index finger that causes the discomfort, but that's really only a problem for extended range sessions with +P ammunition. Standard pressure ammunition doesn't cause me similar discomfort, and it's not something that would really concern me an 'actual' situation, anyway ... where I'd be more concerned about potential hearing loss or eye injury. (The real world can be an unforgiving place, you know.)

The thing to consider about diminutive 5-shot revolvers, though, is that their safe and effective use generally require a higher level of DA/DAO revolver skills and techniques, even among many users/shooters of medium and large frame revolvers. The smaller grip dimensions, heavier DA/DAO triggers, shortened sight radius and basic fixed sights and lighter overall weight are often "less-than-advantageous" for some folks.

I've seen a few folks who are otherwise competent full-size revolver shooters experience issues ranging from discomfort to serious skills, accuracy and safe manipulation issues when switching to snub-nosed revolvers. Even something as 'basic' as the wrong grip can result in a mangled thumb tip (hitting the cylinder latch, rear of the cylinder or even the recoil shield edge) or an injured finger (hot gasses escaping from the cylinder/barrel gap, at the least).

Whenever someone asks me to recommend a 5-shot short-barreled revolver for an "off-duty" weapon, and I learn they've never actually shot one, I try to have them shoot one, either mine (if it's with me at the range that day) or one we keep in the training safe. Better to find out that they may not be willing to devote the additional training & practice time often needed for the little wheelguns, or simply aren't interested, before spending the money and discovering it the hard way ...

It's amazing how quickly some people change their minds once they actually shoot one, especially an Airweight loaded with +P ammunition, but I prefer to introduce them to the platform with standard pressure ammunition, and then if they're still interested ... and interested in higher pressure defensive ammunition ... I'll have them shoot some +P loads.

Fortunately, S&W offers enough model variations in their J-frame line, ranging from all-steel to one of the Airweight/Airlite models, to probably satisfy the needs of most folks who might desire a 5-shot j-frame. There are some potential ammunition concerns and restrictions once the Airlite models are being considered, in regard to both potential bullet-jump and gas erosion of the titanium cylinders. This issue is addressed in the owner's manual, on Page 14 ... 1.97 MB file which downloads in Adobe .pdf format, if your connection isn't fast ... http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/Revolver.pdf

If your local ranges don't have a 442/642 available for rental, you might look for another range, even if farther away. Do either of your local ranges at least offer one model or another of an Airlite for rental? An Airlite is lighter than an Airweight, and if anything might offer you an example of some increased felt recoil, compared to how it might feel in an Airweight, when used with +P ammunition.

You really ought to find some range where you can try out the different J-frames. Maybe a range safety officer might have a personally owned Airweight he/she might be willing to allow you to test-fire, while attentively hovering nearby, of course.;)

Personally, I find shooting my compact and subcompact .45 ACP pistols to be "easier", in some respects, than shooting my J-frame Airweight loaded with +P ammunition, but it's not really a comparison I'd feel comfortable using to describe shooting those platforms to someone who hasn't shot both platforms themselves. Too many subjective considerations which can get lost in translation.

FWIW, once I dusted off my DA/DAO revolver skills, and refined them a bit, my 642 became my most frequently carried off-duty weapon for reasons of overall size, convenience of (safe) carry methods and falling within my personal range of acceptable defensive calibers. I can carry it when I can't as "easily" carry one of my subcompact 9mm/.40 S&W/.45 ACP pistols, if only because of preference of attire and personal comfort in warmer weather, during casual activities.

Not everyone may feel that way.

Personal risk assessment, research, experience and informed choice is very important, you know.
 
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Jeeeeeze, fastbolt . . . I humble myself before you on bended knee and in heart-felt gratitude. ;)

THANK YOU, for taking the time to write that. Yours is a prime example of why I joined this forum: there are highly-skilled, knowledgeable, decent folks here who are willing to share their knowledge with the less-informed. Kudos.

Strange how these things work, but I did exactly what you suggested and called around until I found a range with a M642 within driving distance. Long story short, I found running +P Gold Dots through this gun roughly comparable to running Gold Dots (200/230 gr) through my G36: not high on my list of "things pleasurable." :uhoh:

I am avoiding my G36, as I have "bites" in places other than the pad of my strong hand pinkie. ;) My 1911 always knows when I've "been with" the G36, due to the tell-tale '36 blood blister. lol) :evil:

In spot-on fashion, you summed up my situation and what has now proven to be my experience in the last two paragraphs of your post:

Personally, I find shooting my compact and subcompact .45 ACP pistols to be "easier", in some respects, than shooting my J-frame Airweight loaded with +P ammunition, but it's not really a comparison I'd feel comfortable using to describe shooting those platforms who hasn't shot both platforms themselves. Too many subjective considerations which can get lost in translation.

FWIW, once I dusted off my DA/DAO revolver skills, and refined them a bit, my 642 became my most frequently carried off-duty weapon for reasons of overall size, convenience of (safe) carry methods and falling within my personal range of acceptable defensive calibers. I can carry it when I can't as "easily" carry one of my subcompact 9mm/.40 S&W/.45 ACP pistols, if only because of preference of attire and personal comfort in warmer weather, during casual activities.


I could not agree more.

Again, thank you for your help!

(You da man! :D )

MiG
 
Great posts and great advice. I picked up a 642 about 1 month ago, and it's a great carry gun. I found the recoil to be "snappier" than any of my other guns (G23, PM9, Kimber .45 ACP). That being said, it is not overly uncontrolable. After 50 rounds of practice .38 special and a handful of of +Ps, I can feel it (FWIW, I carry 135g +P Federal H-Shocks). My hand stings a bit, but it's worth the trigger time. The gun is accurate for SD purposes and I can't imagine ever getting rid of it. In fact, my buddy is looking for his own now. I would rather carry a lighter frame and deal with a little discomfort at the range, but YMMV. Check one out if you can and I don't think you'll be disappointed. Good luck.

FnB
 
I picked up a 642 about a month or so ago also.....it's now my primary ccw.I love this little light weight.I pocket carry,either in a vest or front pocket.
The recoil does take some getting used too.My other ccw is a Ruger sp101,and with my carry loads(135 gr 38+p)it was like shooting a 22...not so with the 642!But it is managable....for me the weight of it out-weighs the recoil factor.
 
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