Andras
Member
Not a carry gun, but I have a blued Taurus 606 with a ported 2" barrel. Very fun to shoot.
The Steel Snub Club
- Thread starter Candiru
- Start date
- Status
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
The Pre-Chief a 38/32 Terrier
Hello
Here is an early Pre-Chief model .38/32 I Have.These started out with a regular I frame then it got increased in size to the Improved I Frame. This revolver was built on the 4 Screw Improved I Frame. Some call it a transition revolver, as it is a 38 S&W caliber, Not the .38 Special, and shortly after this one was produced they increased the frame size to the now Popular-J-frame. This is a 1950 model and being the improved I frame it is a little lighter than the later model 36-J-frame.I purchased this from an original owner's Widow.The revolver came with it's original box, cleaning rid, owners manuel, and documents along with an original a bill of sale from September 1950 for a price of $52.00 tax included. Hammerdown
Hello
Here is an early Pre-Chief model .38/32 I Have.These started out with a regular I frame then it got increased in size to the Improved I Frame. This revolver was built on the 4 Screw Improved I Frame. Some call it a transition revolver, as it is a 38 S&W caliber, Not the .38 Special, and shortly after this one was produced they increased the frame size to the now Popular-J-frame. This is a 1950 model and being the improved I frame it is a little lighter than the later model 36-J-frame.I purchased this from an original owner's Widow.The revolver came with it's original box, cleaning rid, owners manuel, and documents along with an original a bill of sale from September 1950 for a price of $52.00 tax included. Hammerdown
XavierBreath
Member
S&W Model 34-1
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
Stainless steel
Hello
Here is one you dont see every day. A 1999 631 in .32 H&R Magnum.
Best regards, Hammerdown
Hello
Here is one you dont see every day. A 1999 631 in .32 H&R Magnum.
Best regards, Hammerdown
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
Hello
I Contacted Roy Jinks and he supplied me with MY information above, adding it was a transition gun. I assume it could be a mixture of parts that was used up in making this revolver and I did ask why it was Not a 4 screw revolver, as the serial number on it points at a 1950 vintage,Yet it has some features of later issued models and his reply was that this may have been a replacement revolver issued to the customer from an earlier purchased revolver with serious issues. He went on to say, this was done at times and the original trouble some one would have been destroyed and this could be it's replacement. The sales reciept does Not have the serial number on it, simply a model number and price, from a local hardeware company. I also have the same book you speak of,"Both Editions" and the Only way I know of finding out for certain on when a gun was SHIPPED or came to be is by contacting Mr Jinks as I did on this revolver, due to it's older S&W .38 NON special caliber.I use "The Standard Book Of Smith & Wesson" By Authors Supica and Hahas and use it often for reference but it is a basic guide, and only a direct S&W source such as Mr. Jinks satisfies my final assessment of any S&W wheelgun trivia.
BluesBear
member
September 1950?
For a model that wasn't introduced until sometime in 1955?
For a model that wasn't introduced until sometime in 1955?
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
See The Edited Part I just inserted. I had to close out the forum, to bring up the Past E-mail I received from Mr. Jinks then made corrections to my response.This revolver also wears standard-J-frame sizes grips, and all the early Terriers I had seen before it, have had the shorter style grips, common with the I Frame.
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
Something sounds fishy here[/QUOTE]
Understandable. The E-mail did not seem clear, so I actually called Mr. Jinks direct at S&W and that is when he went into the details. I do not know why the revolver has these features with the Older serial number, but he reminded me to Never say Never with S&W, then suggested it MAY be a replacement revolver ? I do not know only what he shared with me on it. I don't fire it often as the Mongrel older caliber is high priced to buy shells for, and I simply took it off the widows hands for a price she felt comfortable with and set at $200.00. She was nervous having it in her Late Husbands night stand and it was loaded. I Tossed the box of shells that came with it, as they were all chalky looking on the lead portion from Years of laying around.This is not the first time i have heard of S&W replacing a problem revolver, and perhaps the original owner stressed he wanted to stay with the Older caliber, if it was a replacement as suggested.If he were still HERE I would sure like to know all the details, but his wife know nothing about it, other than it was loaded, and she did not want it in her house since he was gone. It is NOT mint, but it appear's seldom fired and that was worth $200.00 to me. Thanks for the compliments as well.
Understandable. The E-mail did not seem clear, so I actually called Mr. Jinks direct at S&W and that is when he went into the details. I do not know why the revolver has these features with the Older serial number, but he reminded me to Never say Never with S&W, then suggested it MAY be a replacement revolver ? I do not know only what he shared with me on it. I don't fire it often as the Mongrel older caliber is high priced to buy shells for, and I simply took it off the widows hands for a price she felt comfortable with and set at $200.00. She was nervous having it in her Late Husbands night stand and it was loaded. I Tossed the box of shells that came with it, as they were all chalky looking on the lead portion from Years of laying around.This is not the first time i have heard of S&W replacing a problem revolver, and perhaps the original owner stressed he wanted to stay with the Older caliber, if it was a replacement as suggested.If he were still HERE I would sure like to know all the details, but his wife know nothing about it, other than it was loaded, and she did not want it in her house since he was gone. It is NOT mint, but it appear's seldom fired and that was worth $200.00 to me. Thanks for the compliments as well.
BluesBear
member
Here is a 1953 Chief's special.
Whuch from the triggerguard rearward is the same as an Improved I-Frame
Notice anything?
Short frame. Longer frame did not exist yet in 1950.
Also notice the first variation flat latch still in use in 1953.
The later variation on your Terrier didn't come about until later.
Like the large upper sideplate screw?
Which was discontinued on the Terrier in 1955.
Which means there weren't any four screw fames before then.
The shape of the hammer?
The hammer on the right is the same as used on the I-frame
The hammer on the left is on my best friends 1958 Model 36
Perhaps you need to send Mr Jinks photos of your gun?
I am sure he will revise his information to you.
Roy could tell from across the room that that's not 1950 vintage.
(Because the short cylinder in the long cylinder window is a dead giveaway that it's a J-frame.)
If a gun was bought in 1950 and IF S&W replaced it because it was defective in 1955, it's no longer a 1950 model. It's a 1955 model.
Whuch from the triggerguard rearward is the same as an Improved I-Frame
Notice anything?
Short frame. Longer frame did not exist yet in 1950.
Also notice the first variation flat latch still in use in 1953.
The later variation on your Terrier didn't come about until later.
Like the large upper sideplate screw?
Which was discontinued on the Terrier in 1955.
Which means there weren't any four screw fames before then.
The shape of the hammer?
The hammer on the right is the same as used on the I-frame
The hammer on the left is on my best friends 1958 Model 36
Perhaps you need to send Mr Jinks photos of your gun?
I am sure he will revise his information to you.
Roy could tell from across the room that that's not 1950 vintage.
(Because the short cylinder in the long cylinder window is a dead giveaway that it's a J-frame.)
If a gun was bought in 1950 and IF S&W replaced it because it was defective in 1955, it's no longer a 1950 model. It's a 1955 model.
Attachments
BluesBear
member
Ain't saying nothing further in this thread.
Yikes, I'm getting out of here before this one gets closed too.
Bye, y'all.
Yikes, I'm getting out of here before this one gets closed too.
Bye, y'all.
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
READ The explaination.. It wouldnt MATTER what I posted without a factory Letter it would be NIT PICKED TO DEATH..
Main Thing is it functions and is a modest priced revolver for me. I just THOUGHT I would share a decent survivor, didn't Know I was up against a Firing Squad of Slamming. Bye the way, Where's YOUR'S ? All I see is SOLD examples and Pictures of Friends Revolver's ? I am done with this as YOU have turned another good Thread Into FLAMES which seems to be Your Intent.:banghead: My information was based of Mr. Jinks response. Maybe a BOOK is something you should write insted of TAUNTING MEMBERS with all your spare Time !The Lone Haranguer
Member
I did like my Ruger SP101 for that very reason. But with the availability of reliable subcompact autos it is getting harder to justify it.
S&W10mm
Member
Strange S&W's?
As its been pointed out, there is NO reasoning for some S&W revolvers, I own a S&W that was built 3 -4 years after the serial number was issued. Let me explain, and this was also explained and lettered by Mr. Jinks himself. S&W would do a run of Guns, serial number the frames, but say run out of cyl.'s or barrels or maybe other parts, the Frame then sat on a shelf for 3-4 years and then were put together, I guess when other parts were made? Or machines re-tooled? These guns were made before Model Numbers and so called Dash Numbers. So the improvements or design changes were very hard to keep up with. So the Shipping date and Manf. date DO NOT ALWAYS MATCH. And seems, can go either way. It was a very common practice back years ago. And I have a Pre Model 29 that does NOT make any sense. It was shipped 3 years after it Built, and NO ONE at S&W can explain why it set or was held by S&W for such a Long time. The Serial Number is a VERY Early 1956 and was shipped by S&W To a Texas Firm in Late in 1959, all most 4 years later. And this was a common thing up untill the late 60's early 70's when all Gun Control's were tightened and Firm Clamps put on the entire Industry. And as stated above By Hammerdown, replacement guns still happen today! I have a seen Replacement Glock 22's, that WAS a 1st Gen. and was found to have a Cracked Frames, but was replaced at the factory with the Same exact serial number. So if you did a Serial number search, it will show it to be a 1st gen. gun. But it is NOT! It was replaced with a 3rd Gen. Gun.
S&W and all other major gun makers from the 1930's thru the 60's Mass Produced a ton of guns, and no one then cared about serial numbers or model numbers matching. And I have seen Lunch Box Guns, that the workers made on thier lunch hour or took parts out the Factory and might'a built at home (?) and there were proto types and most are pretty much one of a kind. Just go to a SWCA Convention sometime and you'll flip out over all the Veriations that we don't even know about.
You have to remember, this was when there were NO Gun Controls, No ATF Records, and A Top Quality Gun cost $29.95-69.95. So it wasn't a big deal, they were just tools and Not the Heavenly Held Collector Items we cherish today. And made by Custom Shops or Rare Numbered Limited Editions Ordered by Large Dist's like Lew Horton.
I had a VERY Good Friend Leon Pullen, one of THE founding Members of the SWCA, him and Roy Jinks and Leon's wife were the First Members of the SWCA, Leon owned S&W's that were Special Built for him by S&W. If he wanted a certain Barrel or a Different Finish, No Big Deal! He'd ask one of thier buddies at S&W to build it. Leon passed away two years ago and I miss him Dearly! He taught me so much about S&W's and Colt 1st Gen SAA's. And I've been collecting Colts and S&W's since 1976 and I realized I didn't know NOTHING about either until after I met Leon in the early 90's! He taught me so much, and I still don't know a 10th of what he forgot about S&W's!
This has been talked about Many Times a Length on the S&W Forum by such noted members as Dick Burg and Jim Supica. S&W is one weird Company, I learn something new everyday about S&W's.
So when your dealing with a Company that has been in the Business as long as S&W or Colt, gone through as many owners as they Both Have, through as many Laws and changes because of these Laws, NEVER SAY NEVER!
As its been pointed out, there is NO reasoning for some S&W revolvers, I own a S&W that was built 3 -4 years after the serial number was issued. Let me explain, and this was also explained and lettered by Mr. Jinks himself. S&W would do a run of Guns, serial number the frames, but say run out of cyl.'s or barrels or maybe other parts, the Frame then sat on a shelf for 3-4 years and then were put together, I guess when other parts were made? Or machines re-tooled? These guns were made before Model Numbers and so called Dash Numbers. So the improvements or design changes were very hard to keep up with. So the Shipping date and Manf. date DO NOT ALWAYS MATCH. And seems, can go either way. It was a very common practice back years ago. And I have a Pre Model 29 that does NOT make any sense. It was shipped 3 years after it Built, and NO ONE at S&W can explain why it set or was held by S&W for such a Long time. The Serial Number is a VERY Early 1956 and was shipped by S&W To a Texas Firm in Late in 1959, all most 4 years later. And this was a common thing up untill the late 60's early 70's when all Gun Control's were tightened and Firm Clamps put on the entire Industry. And as stated above By Hammerdown, replacement guns still happen today! I have a seen Replacement Glock 22's, that WAS a 1st Gen. and was found to have a Cracked Frames, but was replaced at the factory with the Same exact serial number. So if you did a Serial number search, it will show it to be a 1st gen. gun. But it is NOT! It was replaced with a 3rd Gen. Gun.
S&W and all other major gun makers from the 1930's thru the 60's Mass Produced a ton of guns, and no one then cared about serial numbers or model numbers matching. And I have seen Lunch Box Guns, that the workers made on thier lunch hour or took parts out the Factory and might'a built at home (?) and there were proto types and most are pretty much one of a kind. Just go to a SWCA Convention sometime and you'll flip out over all the Veriations that we don't even know about.
You have to remember, this was when there were NO Gun Controls, No ATF Records, and A Top Quality Gun cost $29.95-69.95. So it wasn't a big deal, they were just tools and Not the Heavenly Held Collector Items we cherish today. And made by Custom Shops or Rare Numbered Limited Editions Ordered by Large Dist's like Lew Horton.
I had a VERY Good Friend Leon Pullen, one of THE founding Members of the SWCA, him and Roy Jinks and Leon's wife were the First Members of the SWCA, Leon owned S&W's that were Special Built for him by S&W. If he wanted a certain Barrel or a Different Finish, No Big Deal! He'd ask one of thier buddies at S&W to build it. Leon passed away two years ago and I miss him Dearly! He taught me so much about S&W's and Colt 1st Gen SAA's. And I've been collecting Colts and S&W's since 1976 and I realized I didn't know NOTHING about either until after I met Leon in the early 90's! He taught me so much, and I still don't know a 10th of what he forgot about S&W's!
This has been talked about Many Times a Length on the S&W Forum by such noted members as Dick Burg and Jim Supica. S&W is one weird Company, I learn something new everyday about S&W's.
So when your dealing with a Company that has been in the Business as long as S&W or Colt, gone through as many owners as they Both Have, through as many Laws and changes because of these Laws, NEVER SAY NEVER!
BluesBear
member
forget about the numbers
Okay since I was PMed and asked nicely to clear something up I will.
We were using features to date guns.
No one was talking about serial numbers.
But some folks just insist on bringing up serial numbers and numbering inconsistancies in an effort to muddy the waters. Or perhaps they just don't understand.
A serial number can't explain how a gun can be shipped and sold BEFORE it was produced.
S&W has never produced a single gun from FUTURE parts.
For many years S&W guns were produced in large batches
There are many cases of frames sitting around for years before they are finally used.
It took S&W about 14 years to use up all of their New Model Number Three frames.
S&W is notorious for producing guns from left over parts.
In fact they like to brag that they NEVER waste parts. (well there was the Sigma but that's a different matter)
Some of the most collectable S&W guns are variations or transitional models.
With the N-frame, S&W ran out of pinned frames before they ran out of recessed cylinders. Therefore an N-frame revolver with recessed chambers and without a pinned barrel is not exactly rare. Uncommon yes, but not particularly rare.
The factory produced Pintos are another example of using excess parts.
Excess nickle cylinders and barrels were married (and numbered to match) blued frames.
Sometimes a nickle thumbpiece and/or sideplate screws were used as well.
Sometimes not.
Now it's quite possible that a 1950 produced frame could have been shipped in 1955.
You could have a 1955 produced frame with a 1950 series serial number.
You could have a 1950 produced frame with a 1955 series serial number.
It's easy to misload a number die.
But it is utterly impossible to have a 1955 produced frame that was shipped (and sold) in 1950.
Unless your name is Mr Peabody and you have a boy named Sherman and a Wayback machine.
Sometimes you CAN say never.
And now, this is absolutely the last thing I have to say on this matter in this thread.
Just let it be.
Okay since I was PMed and asked nicely to clear something up I will.
We were using features to date guns.
No one was talking about serial numbers.
But some folks just insist on bringing up serial numbers and numbering inconsistancies in an effort to muddy the waters. Or perhaps they just don't understand.
A serial number can't explain how a gun can be shipped and sold BEFORE it was produced.
S&W has never produced a single gun from FUTURE parts.
For many years S&W guns were produced in large batches
There are many cases of frames sitting around for years before they are finally used.
It took S&W about 14 years to use up all of their New Model Number Three frames.
S&W is notorious for producing guns from left over parts.
In fact they like to brag that they NEVER waste parts. (well there was the Sigma but that's a different matter)
Some of the most collectable S&W guns are variations or transitional models.
With the N-frame, S&W ran out of pinned frames before they ran out of recessed cylinders. Therefore an N-frame revolver with recessed chambers and without a pinned barrel is not exactly rare. Uncommon yes, but not particularly rare.
The factory produced Pintos are another example of using excess parts.
Excess nickle cylinders and barrels were married (and numbered to match) blued frames.
Sometimes a nickle thumbpiece and/or sideplate screws were used as well.
Sometimes not.
Now it's quite possible that a 1950 produced frame could have been shipped in 1955.
You could have a 1955 produced frame with a 1950 series serial number.
You could have a 1950 produced frame with a 1955 series serial number.
It's easy to misload a number die.
But it is utterly impossible to have a 1955 produced frame that was shipped (and sold) in 1950.
Unless your name is Mr Peabody and you have a boy named Sherman and a Wayback machine.
Sometimes you CAN say never.
And now, this is absolutely the last thing I have to say on this matter in this thread.
Just let it be.
BluesBear
member
tomkatz
Member
Here's another heavy snubbie....
tomkatz
Member
And I promise this is the last I will say on this as well, but there has NEVER been a first gen. glock 22, the second gen. was the first
.....sorry to nit pickBluesBear
member
Thank you Slick6.
Hey your 19 is a fine specimen too.
Ya know some of the Liar Siegler guns weren't half bad.
I mean sure they weren't 30s, 40s or 50s good but it appears that your snub and mine are as good (or better) as anything anyone else put out in the 1980s.
Hey your 19 is a fine specimen too.
Ya know some of the Liar Siegler guns weren't half bad.
I mean sure they weren't 30s, 40s or 50s good but it appears that your snub and mine are as good (or better) as anything anyone else put out in the 1980s.
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
Mr Blues Bear
AGAIN You DID Not Read. I am NOT certain the sales receipt that came with this revolver is original to it, Nor did I say it was. In Fact I Explained that WELL Above IF you Read..:banghead: The Woman I bought it from Knew Little about it, and the original purchaser is DEAD so he cannot up date us. I also OWNED a Model "61" Escort S&W Pistol That you made Reference to as a Model "71" In Another forum, or perhaps you could post a picture of this MYSTERY MODEL you elaborated on ? I would like to Know When did S&W Make that Model, since YOU seem to Have ALL the ACCURATE answer's on any S&W MADE ?
Maybe you would Like to POST a Link HERE for all the Member's to see this Claim you made in the S&W forum, where you commonly place links to Your Precise Model number Inaccurate response's or snide remarks You have placed in THIS Forum, to DRAW attention which SEEMS to be your intended Goal ?. Thanks Hot Toys for attempting to Explain some of the differences that took place Way back in S&W, But I Guess You have to OWN one to understand it better, as WE do. I have seen Lunch box gun's and Many hand guns that were ordered back in this time frame could be had any way you wanted them as Mr. Jinks has said in the Past as well, INCLUDING Pinto's. I still place all My Faith on him since he has been AT S&W doing this since the Late 1950's. Now this is the man the REST run to with questions that seems to Have all the records as well as being the S&W Historian consultant, and he sure did not get his information second hand he has it in front of him documented.I appreciete the information printed in The Standard Book of Smith & Wesson Both edition's I have as well, BUT it is NOT totaly ACCURATE. A case in point is the model 14-2 Dayton Revolver mentioned on page 132 Second edition. Here you will see the Author made reference Under Engineering & Production changes that a TOTAL of 184 were made, only showing 1965 as a date. This Dayton Outdoor Sports revolver was made from 1965 Through 1968 and the total was 2038 made, NOT 184 as printed, and I DO have one of these model's as well. I looked while in my Reference book as well, and can't seem to find this model "71" pistol in any of MY reference books that S&W produced, and YOU made reference to Maybe next time I speak with Mr. Jinks, I will have to ask him WHEN they made a model "71" Escort Pistol.BET that response will SOON have an edit. Nuff said, NOW this thread has turned into a K-frame Thread when it was intended to be a-J-steel frame thread by the original Poster.I see you have stated I am on your IGNORE Feature here in the other forum response ? Maybe applying THIS will BENEIFIT All.Kymasabe
Member
My beat-up old model 36
Yes, I bought it looking like this. I don't have to worry putting the first scratch in it. But...it shoots great and is mechanically perfect.
We carry with ...oh heck, I don't have the box anymore. Is some Federal personal defense low recoil hollow point nonsense.
Yes, I bought it looking like this. I don't have to worry putting the first scratch in it. But...it shoots great and is mechanically perfect.
We carry with ...oh heck, I don't have the box anymore. Is some Federal personal defense low recoil hollow point nonsense.
tomkatz
Member
Jeez, the original poster asked about steel snubbies, he made no mention of the SIZE of said snubgun.
You prolly ought to calm down hammerdown, there has been no malicious intent here from what I can see.
Hammerdown
member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 213
OPPPS.. My Mistake
Hello Tomkatz
You are correct. I take for granted that Most daily carried S&W revolver's spoke of are based on the common smaller-J-frame, more so than their Bigger frame brothers the -K-series. My mistake, and all is calm here. I have Not seen one S&W I do not like no matter what frame it has, or what the barrel length is. Regards, Hammerdown
Hello Tomkatz
You are correct. I take for granted that Most daily carried S&W revolver's spoke of are based on the common smaller-J-frame, more so than their Bigger frame brothers the -K-series. My mistake, and all is calm here.
I have Not seen one S&W I do not like no matter what frame it has, or what the barrel length is. Regards, Hammerdown- Status
