SA-35 and Herter's ammo

[CNobbe]

I decided to meet some friends to practice for an upcoming USPSA match and I brought my SA-35 along as it hadn't been out for a while.

I had a couple of 100 round boxes of Cabela's brand (Herter's) 9mm Luger on hand.

I noticed it has "WIN" for a head stamp and comes in the same packaging as Winchester WWB 100 round value pack. Not a mystery who makes Cabela's house brand of ammo. It used to be S&B and was about the best value in ammo as it was usually $9.99/box and never gave me problems..

Tonight with the "new" Herter's I had numerous failures to extract with my SA-35. At least 10 rounds that left an empty case in the chamber. I started to worry as I'd read about SA-35s and extraction issues. My 35 has already been back to Springfield for a new guide rod and grips.

I bought a box of S&B 124gr at the range to continue troubleshooting (no pun intended) and a friend offered a box of Federal range/target 115gr as well. 100 rounds of S&B/Federal and not one malfunction. Nothing wrong with the pistol, just the ammo.

I know WWB has been known for lack of quality, but I've never had issues with WWB like I did with the Herter's labeled stuff. Just a heads up to those who shoot Herter's ammo.

 

[ontarget]

Yes, I have been working through a 500 rd box of Herters 22lr from Cabelas. Lots of FTFs. I pulled a few bullets from the duds and they all had chunks of the yellow priming compound mixed in the powder.
I'm using them in a Single Six so no feeding or extraction issues, just FTFs.

 

[JTQ]

I had a couple of 100 round boxes of Cabela's brand (Herter's) 9mm Luger on hand.

Tonight with the "new" Herter's I had numerous failures to extract with my SA-35.

Is this 115gr ammo? If so, we have a report just about once a week from some member who has a new 9mm pistol, and has cycling problems when shooting economy 115gr ammo.

It isn't manufacturer specific, either gun or ammo. It is lightweight/low powered 9mm ammo combined with new/stiff recoil springs in guns designed to shoot NATO/defensive ammo. Switching to more powerful ammo fixes the problem in nearly all instances. This is also not a permanent problem, as the recoil springs loosen up after a couple/few hundred rounds to where the cheap/weak/lightweight stuff works in their guns.

 

[CNobbe]

Is this 115gr ammo? If so, we have a report just about once a week from some member who has a new 9mm pistol, and has cycling problems when shooting economy 115gr ammo.

It isn't manufacturer specific, either gun or ammo. It is lightweight/low powered 9mm ammo combined with new/stiff recoil springs in guns designed to shoot NATO/defensive ammo. Switching to more powerful ammo fixes the problem in nearly all instances. This is also not a permanent problem, as the recoil springs loosen up after a couple/few hundred rounds to where the cheap/weak/lightweight stuff works in their guns.

My SA-35 wasn't new, and had cycled everything it'd been fed in the past from 115 Remington, WWB, my reloads (including subsonic) and +P hollow points. Well north of 1k rounds now. Not an issue of break in.

 

[Buzznrose]

Is this 115gr ammo? If so, we have a report just about once a week from some member who has a new 9mm pistol, and has cycling problems when shooting economy 115gr ammo.

It isn't manufacturer specific, either gun or ammo. It is lightweight/low powered 9mm ammo combined with new/stiff recoil springs in guns designed to shoot NATO/defensive ammo. Switching to more powerful ammo fixes the problem in nearly all instances. This is also not a permanent problem, as the recoil springs loosen up after a couple/few hundred rounds to where the cheap/weak/lightweight stuff works in their guns.

Ummm….eehhhh….what????

They make ammo that only works in worn out pistols? Who knew?

 

[CNobbe]

Yes, I have been working through a 500 rd box of Herters 22lr from Cabelas. Lots of FTFs. I pulled a few bullets from the duds and they all had chunks of the yellow priming compound mixed in the powder.
I'm using them in a Single Six so no feeding or extraction issues, just FTFs.

That's been my experience with their .22 ammo as well.

 

[SSN Vet]

The SA-35 has some pretty well documented problems with FTEs.
It seems the problem is most likely related to small sharp burrs where the slide serrations cross the extractor slot. If you have small files (Swiss files) I'd recommend detail stripping the slide and smoothing out that channel. BH Spring Solutions has an extra stiff extractor spring you could swap out while you're at it.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Best use for WWB 9mm is to throw it on the ground in front of a bad guy and hope he slips and falls on it.

Always hated the vile stuff....and their .22 is so dimensionally out of spec that it wont chamber in several of my target guns.

 

[CNobbe]

The SA-35 has some pretty well documented problems with FTEs.
It seems the problem is most likely related to small sharp burrs where the slide serrations cross the extractor slot. If you have small files (Swiss files) I'd recommend detail stripping the slide and smoothing out that channel. BH Spring Solutions has an extra stiff extractor spring you could swap out while you're at it.

This was an ammo issue for certain. We put another 250 through it tonight and it ran fine, over 1k rounds now.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Hmmm

It was common practice just 2yrs ago for persons to poo poo reloading 9mm or .223/5.56 as it was supposedly cheaper/superior to just buy loaded ammo.

So, I nodded and smiled while I picked up all the empty cases!

MY 9’s almost always (except those I load intended for self defense. Those ALWAYS go Bang like they’re supposed to!), and are always more than adequately accurate.
My home made bullets cost me near nothing. Scrap lead. Over a ton on hand, usually....
Still using powders I’ve had 25+yrs... old refrigerator over flowing...
Primers? I had 150,000 on hand when Obama was inaugurated. Bought more when things improved in ‘17-‘19.

Tell me again why you don’t reload 9’s and .223?

 

[CNobbe]

Hmmm

MY 9’s almost always (except those I load intended for self defense.

Not a smart idea to use reloaded ammunition for self defense, but that's for a different forum.

 

[GooseGestapo]

And if one holds a class 6 FFL?

You’re right! Another topic for another day!

 

[Otto]

This was an ammo issue for certain. We put another 250 through it tonight and it ran fine, over 1k rounds now.

How does the Herters function in other pistols?

 

[SSN Vet]

This was an ammo issue for certain. We put another 250 through it tonight and it ran fine, over 1k rounds now.

While I see your point, I think you're making a unjustified leap to assume that the ammo was out of spec, without first measuring the cases... which I didn't see mention of anyone doing. The WIN cases may well have been in spec, but riding one side of an allowable tolerance (probably on the rim thickness or the extractor groove width), while the other cartridges may have been in spec at the other side of the allowable tolerance.

If all the cases are within the allowable tolerance, it's on the pistol to be able to eat, digest, and spit them out.

Cartridge geometry (with tolerances) is published and readily available. Sufficiently precise measurements can easily be made with any $25 vernier caliper.

Given that the SA-35 now has many, many, many reported FTE problems, I personally would measure the WIN cases before I assumed that they were at fault.

I'm not busting on the SA-35. Indeed, I'm on the waiting list to get one. I'm not worried about the FTE problems, as I work on all my own guns and know that this is an easy fix.

 

[CNobbe]

How does the Herters function in other pistols?

I’m temped to buy a box and find out. The night of the issues I only had my sa-35 and DVC 3 gun with me. Been loading a lot of 9mm, mostly 9mm major for USPSA. I didn’t have any regular 9 loaded. So I bought a box. Next time I see it at cabelas i Fran another hundred and see what happens.

 

[CNobbe]

While I see your point, I think you're making a unjustified leap to assume that the ammo was out of spec, without first measuring the cases... which I didn't see mention of anyone doing.

I hadn’t brought my caliper to the range with me. I think it was a matter of undercharged rounds.

 

[Gordon]

Sorry , the Herters ammo is absolutely bottom of the barrel as far as I am concerned. Its the only ammo my .30 carb refused to run with, same with Herters .22 in everything I tried it in. The 9mm stuff I let one of my son shoot up . He got about one dud every two mag fulls in a Glock 19 that eats everything , and a couple stove pipes in every other mag full.