Sad event to learn from

[doc jake]

A very sad incident to consider. I don’t have the full story only what I have managed to piece together from different newspaper reports, therefore my apologies if I have miss reported any of this.

Early on Monday morning a police officer was fatally stabbed in Bedfordshire (UK). By the newspaper reports he received a single knife wound penetrating his arm pit and severing an artery in the chest cavity. I’m guessing it was the left armpit. By all accounts he was wearing correctly fitting body armour.

He was responding to reports that a window cleaner and a member of the public had been attacked and stabbed outside a supermarket.

Eye witnesses report that the Officer challenged the assailant and sprayed him with CS, which doesn’t seem to have had any effect on the assailant. He may have been wearing glasses, how much this would have protected his eyes for a few crucial seconds I’m not sure.

I’m guessing that the Officer would have had his left arm extended as a “fence” while discharging the CS canister with his right. I was taught to extend the left arm and keep the right arm tucked into my right hip; however my training on CS is now some years old. Hence my thoughts that wound would be received to the left arm pit.

The assailant was brought down by a stun gun and is now in custody. I believe only firearms Officers are allowed stun guns.

Thoughts on this matter? CS is not an effective close defence weapon and that possibly the Officers baton would have been a better option.

 

[Car Knocker]

Was the murdered officer alone without backup when this happened? It's unclear when the assailant was brought down by the stun gun.

 

[Mantua]

The UK needs to ban knives. Then, stabbings wouldn't happen. It works for guns, right?

 

[BullfrogKen]

This is S&T, Mantua, not Legal and Political.


Knives are terribly insidious weapons. The advantage a handgun gives us is distance. Proximity negates that advantage. I'm persuaded that of the two weapons, knives are deadlier once the expanse between two parties becomes touching distance.

And CS doesn't incapacitate. Even suffering from the effects of chemical agents, an attacker can still deliver blows through the pain. At touching distances sight is not necessary to remain effective in the fight.


Chemical sprays, as used by the Armed Citizen, are best employed when used in preparation to immediately do something else. Spray and move. Or spray and aggressively disengage in a manner that causes the attacker to substantially reorient should he decide to re-engage us. Get off the line of force. Rearward movement, or more commonly "backing up" generally does not get off the line of force. Then retreat to a safe place.


Chemical sprays as used by Peace Officers are used to gain compliance. When a knife is presented, lethal force is preferred over chemical sprays, which are non-lethal. In the U.S. Police have firearms available. In the UK I understand they are much less available to street officers, so that option was largely unavailable. Still the Officer had the duty to perform, which was to effect an arrest and bring the suspect into custody.

The S&T lessons learned would be to use the spray, back off, and allow back-up to arrive to help bring the suspect into custody with the least amount of risk to the arresting Officer(s). The lesson to the Armed Citizen is spray and move big. Don't hang around to admire your handiwork.


God be with young Pc Jonathan Charles Henry, and his grieving family. Your actions were heroic.

Police officer stabbed to death
A 36-year-old police officer has died and another man is in a serious condition after a triple stabbing.

Pc Jonathan Charles Henry was responding to an attack on a window cleaner in George Street, Luton.

The police officer died at Luton and Dunstable Hospital where two other victims are being treated.

Officers used a baton round and Taser electric stun gun to restrain the knifeman. A man has been arrested on suspicion of murder.

One of the injured men, a 55-year-old Luton man, was said to be in a serious but stable condition.

Police have not given details of the second man but said he was also being treated in hospital.

Colleagues have been left "traumatised" by the killing of Pc Henry, who was wearing a stab proof vest, said Chief Constable Gillian Parker of Bedfordshire Police

She said: "Jon loved his job and was a dedicated member of the police force.

"His dedication to duty cost him his life."

He leaves a wife Mary and a baby girl called Maggie

At a press conference at Luton police station, Det Supt Keith Garwood refused to reveal the exact circumstances surrounding the officer's death.

He said Pc Henry was attending 999 calls from two members of the public after a man, said by witnesses to be a window cleaner, was stabbed in the back.

He attended in a marked police car and was with a number of other officers when he was attacked.

Home Secretary John Reid said he was "deeply saddened" by the death.

He added: "Such events highlight the dangers that police officers face every day on the front line protecting the public.

"This is a tragic event and I offer my deepest sympathy to the officer's family, friends and colleagues."

 

[kungfuhippie]

great write-up BullfrogKen
I agree, CS is a tool and has it's uses. However the saying, "when the only tool you have is a hammer all problems look like nails" (something to that effect) is relevant here. Don't think one tool (CS, a gun, knife, club, etc.) will solve all problems-I say one should be prepared for an array of situations. Handgun, knife, martial arts, etc. should all be learned, practiced and employed when appropriate.

The best tool is your brain practice using it...think about self defense situation, it you make decisions of what you'd do when ... happens it will be almost instinct when you must defend yourself.

 

[outerlimit]

Body armor isn't going to stop a knife anyways unless it's from the 12th century..

 

[psyopspec]

He may have been wearing glasses, how much this would have protected his eyes for a few crucial seconds I’m not sure.

With CS, it's the fumes that getcha.

I too am sorry to hear of this officer's death. While I don't envy the work of the street cop, I certainly wouldn't want to do it unarmed, and I have respect for those that do.

 

[don_hamer]

I am sorry to hear about this. I agree wit hthe OP. I think his baton would have been better to use, but I wasn't there so maybe it wasn't an option.

 

[anotherKevin]

This is a technical impossibility - knives have been banned in blighty, thereby solving all violent crime.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Training Issue

At contact distances you need proper training against a knife.

OC simply won't get it done reliably.

If you've taken the trouble to effectively remove guns, thereby guaranteeing that a preponderance of assaults will be with contact weapons, then contact training is in order.

It doesn't sound like they've taken that logical step.

If all you have left the bad guys is stuff they can hit and stab with, you'd better know how to fight in that context.

They need better training, and they need it now.