Safe bolting

[mgmorden]

Hey guys. I just recently purchased a safe (22-gun Stack-on) that I'd naturally like to bolt down.

The safe is in the (climate-controlled) garage in a little alcove up front (basically there's a door in the middle and a recess on each side of it - the hot water heater is in one recess and the other was empty and now contains the safe).

I figured there are two ways to bolt it: wall or floor (or both).

The wall is the easiest choice - drilling into wood ain't that complicated, but it also feels a lot less secure.

Bolting to the slab gives me a warmer and fuzzier feeling, but the issue that I worry about there is the potential for drilling into a plumbing pipe. I know that some homes have pipes in the slab which worries me.

Now, from what I've seen the hot water heater and all sinks on the ground floor all have pipes going to the wall, but there is a bathroom with a toilet downstairs which obviously sits atop the slab so it's got to have at least one pipe going down there. It is literally a few feet from the outside of the house though (opposite where I'm putting the safe) so my gut instinct is that they would have run the pipes the shortest distance rather than all the way across the slab.

So, anybody have an idea of how likely/unlikely it is that I'd hit a pipe by drilling into the slab?

Side note - I don't have a hammer drill. I suppose I could rent one (or perhaps see if a pawn shop has one cheap) if needed, but could you get into the concrete with a regular drill and a masonry bit?

Thanks.

 

[CB900F]

Mgmorden;

I'd think that this is a situation where a coupla bucks spent with a home building contractor would be well worth it. Simply ask them in, explain that you need an anchor bolt in the concrete, tell them & let them see the location of the bath fixtures you're concerned about & ask their advice & cost. You should be able to mark where you'd want the anchor with in a couple of square inches. Careful measurement ensures proper placement without wall issues after the fact. Have the safe somewhere else, simply covered in another corner of the garage should do. They don't need to know about a safe. Let them drill the hole & place the anchor, get paid & leave. You move & position the safe, place the bolt & thread it into the anchor. Done deal.

I might also suggest then somehow covering the face of the safe in the alcove so it's not readily visible to other workmen or people casually looking into the garage when the door's open.

900F

 

[Lex Luthier]

Wadr: You do not need a contractor. Bolt it down, bolt it against, just bolt it.

 

[mgmorden]

Well I went ahead and rolled the dice. Seemed to work out ok.

The spacing wasn't right to bolt directly to the studs so I screwed 2 2x6's horizontally across the area and then used lag screws to attach the safe to those.

I got 2 concrete anchor bolts and drilled into the slab (regular drill + masonry bit worked ok). Unfortunately one of the bolts failed - couldn't pull it back up but if I tried to put a nut on it it was turning in the hole. I ended up just cutting off that bolt and calling it a loss. The 2nd one seemed to anchor down fine and I got it tightened.

I figure 2 bolts in the wall and 1 on the floor should provide sufficient deterrence.

 

[thefish]

Unless of have hydronic heating, it is quite unlikely you will hit a pipe, especially In a garage slab on grade. If you like, you can pm me some pics and I can give you my best guess.

There is absolutely no way you are going to get into a slab without a hammer drill and masonry bit. You can rent one at Home Depot.

If you have hydronic heat you can rent a thermal imager, or possibly bring a case of beer to your local fire department and see if they will scope it for you.

 

[thefish]

There is absolutely no way you are going to get into a slab without a hammer drill and masonry bit. You can rent one at Home Depot.

I stand corrected. You must have some soft concrete over there!

I drilled 12 holes in a slab yesterday and they were only 5/16 and here's no way I could have done it without a hammer drill.

 

[mgmorden]

Yeah it was a little rough getting it started but after I did I just kinda kept drilling for a second or two, stopping, then repeating. Vacuumed up the dust about half way down. I only had the 2 holes to do at about 3" deep though. I wouldn't want to do too many of them this way.

 

[TRX]

Since packages left on the porch in my neighborhood tend to vanish, and there's no one home during "delivery hours" to sign for anything, I put one of those big blue steel "contractor boxes" by the front door. Since the box itself would be stolen if it wasn't bolted down, I bought some concrete anchors and a 3/8" masonry bit. It took three of the Lowes' bits to drill four holes 3" deep using my 18v DeWalt battery drill. The drilling went very fast until the drills dulled. Also, the last inch of so of concrete seemed much harder than the upper part.

Now the delivery gal can just drop the package in the box and snap the padlock, which is chained to a tab on the box for that purpose.

 

[DoubleMag]

bolt it to the concrete floor I wouldn't bolt it to the wall. also go to your home depot lowes etc and get to the wood furnaces section for some hi-temp furnace rated caulk. caulk in the bolts inside the safe; in case of fire, this area is fire resistant to the specified temp rating of the caulk.

i would also suggest sealing the perimeter of the base of your safe against moisture. fires bring firemen who always bring lots of...water. which i presume you would rather not have creep under your metal safe, that's bolted down, and hard to move by design. rust. think about it.

 

[Twiki357]

It’s a little late since your already done, but unless you plan on moving it around every so often, why not just use a RamSet. The small hammer activated ones only cost about $20 and will last forever for the occasional home use.

 

[FROGO207]

If anyone else does this and uses something on the back to space the safe off the wall just build a frame around the entire back. The way he did it you could get a bar back there, probably on the top and possibly pry the safe loose if there is a gap. Keep the safe as close to the wall as possible or build a rugged shelf over it to limit access.

 

[leadcounsel]

Waste of time and effort to achor to wood. A skill saw would defeat that in less than a minute. A prybar would also probably easily bust off the stud.

Anchoring to cement is the way to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzb3hjLJl80

 

[danez71]

Well I went ahead and rolled the dice. Seemed to work out ok.

The spacing wasn't right to bolt directly to the studs so I screwed 2 2x6's horizontally across the area and then used lag screws to attach the safe to those.

I got 2 concrete anchor bolts and drilled into the slab (regular drill + masonry bit worked ok). Unfortunately one of the bolts failed - couldn't pull it back up but if I tried to put a nut on it it was turning in the hole. I ended up just cutting off that bolt and calling it a loss. The 2nd one seemed to anchor down fine and I got it tightened.

I figure 2 bolts in the wall and 1 on the floor should provide sufficient deterrence.

As noted above, try to build something to fill the gaps between then wall and safe created by the 2x6's. Or, maybe there isn't the space to get a crow-bar in there...?


I wish I saw this thread earlier.

Regarding the concrete bolts, for future reference, ..... pipes typically go under the slab (not in the slab) and the slab is going to be at least 4" thick; 6" is more typical is more recent construction.

Also, epoxies are your friend. The bolt you mentioned the just spun in the concrete could have been epoxied in place. They sell the stuff at home depot ect. and are extremely effective.

Please don't take this as criticism. What you have done is probably better than my set up.

 

[zorro45]

comments

I am glad this isn't a home improvement forum 'cuz I would hate it if I posted something I had done pretty much successfully and then everyone took a potshot at how they would have done it better!

 

[scaatylobo]

Water ?

Since you did drill the floor of the safe,I am hoping you sealed it VERY well in the case of water on the floor [ you did mention a HOT WATER TANK = they do break as did my 2 year old one :banghead:].

I believe in lots of bolts and in any direction you can find a wall/floor.

 

[sig228]

I got a great deal on a safe. Large Cannon fireproof gun safe a business was selling on Craigslist for $400. Yep, a $1,500 practically new safe for $400. But....after I hit a water line while bolting it down, ruining the wood floors that I had just installed a few weeks earlier, it cost me quite a bit more than $400 overall. So....be careful!!!

 

[K1500]

Word of warning if you are drilling in a PT slab you need to be SURE (as in use X-rays) you don't hit a tensioning cable.