Safe powder/primer storage

[Archangel14]

Hello Gents, I need some advice regarding safe powder and primer storage, possibly disposal. A few questions really:

1. I have various powder and primers stored in the original manufacturers packaging. Most is locked away in a tool chest in my garage. I live in the desert and my garage can get very hot. I estimate that it's about 102 degrees in my garage as I write. Is it safe to store LONG TERM in such conditions?

2. I have one bottle of IMR stored in my gun safe. It's not a fireproof safe. Is that unwise?

3. I began reloading about 6 years ago, but with a 60+ hour work week and two little ones at home I have ZERO time to reload. I haven't reloaded anything in about 2 years. I don't envision reloading anything anytime soon, and if I do it will be on a very limited basis. Should I just get rid of my powders/primers? I shoot so little of late that buying ammo is no big deal for me. If disposal is recommended, what is a safe way to do it?

I know this is a lot of info I'm seeking, but your expert advice will be well taken. Thanks!

 

[rcmodel]

High temperature over 70-80 degrees is certainly not ideal long-term storage conditions for powder.
Probably not as harmful for primers.
But still not ideal.

1 pound of rifle powder in a safe without fire seals should not be of much concern either.
Bet you have stuff under the kitchen counter, and in the garage much more dangerous!

Any chance you could just set the tool box inside the house in a closet or something in the cool A/C?

It's not a bomb.
Unless your house is already burning down.

But even then, smokeless powder will not explode unless tightly confined in a sealed container, so pressure when it burns can leak out the cracks faster then the pressure can build up.

If you feel you MUST dispose of it?
Smokeless powder make excellent lawn fertilizer.
Primers are another matter.

If I were you in that situation and decided you simply must get rid of it?
Put a small add in one of the free 'Trading Post' / 'Thrifty Nickel' type papers stating:

Free Powder & Primers to the first Reloader who comes and gets them'

Just don't stand in the drive-way the morning the paper comes out, or you will get run over!

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

1. It's not unsafe to store powder and primers in a very hot garage but those conditions might shorten the shelf live of both, especially id you have wide temperature swings with cold nights.

2. Yes, it is unwise. You never want to store powders in what can become a bomb causing shrapnel if the powder is ignited. check the NRA sight for appropriate powder storage containers.

3. Smokeless powder is a very good fertilizer. You can use the open can on the lawn. As for the primers and closed powders, in this hard to find component environment I'm completely sure you can sell them locally. Put an add in the local trade paper and sell them off. You will get more for them now than you paid when you bought them.

Good luck...

 

[mahansm]

Safe powder/primer storage
Hello Gents, I need some advice regarding safe powder and primer storage, possibly disposal. A few questions really:

1. I have various powder and primers stored in the original manufacturers packaging. Most is locked away in a tool chest in my garage. I live in the desert and my garage can get very hot. I estimate that it's about 102 degrees in my garage as I write. Is it safe to store LONG TERM in such conditions?

Powder degrades with time. There are stabilizers added during manufacturing to counter that degradation but they are used up with time. The rate of degradation doubles with every 10 degree C (18 degree F) rise in temperature. Long term (10 year) storage under those conditions is not recommended. If the powder smells like solvent, it's OK. If it has a sharp, acrid, acidic smell, if there's reddish vapor when the jar is opened, or if there are any reddish grains, it's past its service life and is fertilizer.

2. I have one bottle of IMR stored in my gun safe. It's not a fireproof safe. Is that unwise?

Yes. In event of a house fire the powder will eventually ignite and will possibly burst the safe. Store it where combustion products (gases) will not be tightly contained.

3. I began reloading about 6 years ago, but with a 60+ hour work week and two little ones at home I have ZERO time to reload. I haven't reloaded anything in about 2 years. I don't envision reloading anything anytime soon, and if I do it will be on a very limited basis. Should I just get rid of my powders/primers? I shoot so little of late that buying ammo is no big deal for me. If disposal is recommended, what is a safe way to do it?

Find someone local (gunbroker, gun list) that will purchase it from you. There's a great shortage of powders now and primers aren't all that plentiful. It will move quickly and you'll be helping out another reloader.

I know this is a lot of info I'm seeking, but your expert advice will be well taken. Thanks!

 

[murf]

"do not store primers with propellant powder", from federals msds section 7. also says, don't store around any flammables. msds is at federalpremium.com.

murf

 

[rcmodel]

I gotta wonder how many folks that get their shorts in a wad over 'Safe Powder Storage' container requirements also have two 20 pound BBQ propane tanks and 2 lawn mower gas cans setting in the open in their garage?

That stuff will blow your house off its foundation if it leaks and seeps down into the furnace or water heater pilot light!
Or the garage door opener sparks it off when you come home.

Powder & primers simply will not / can not do that!

rc

 

[Archangel14]

I gotta wonder how many folks that get their shorts in a wad over 'Safe Powder Storage' container requirements also have two 20 pound BBQ propane tanks and 2 lawn mower gas cans setting in the open in their garage?

LOL! Quite right. I knew a guy that stored gasoline right next to his water heater! But seriously, I have small kids and have become hyper-sensitive about safety issues. Even to the point of being a bit nutty. As I will not be reloading anytime soon, I guess my best bet is to just sell what I have.

Thanks for all your great advice!

 

[murf]

or store it at a friends house until you are ready to start reloading again.

murf

p.s. there is also another thread here called "pay it forward in reloading". if you decide to get rid of your stash, that would be a good place for it to go.

 

[Slamfire]

Exposure to heat is the absolute worst thing you can do to gunpowder. A combination of hot/wet is probably the worst overall. Heat accelerates the deterioration/decomposition of powder and the rate is directly proportional to an exponential function. The lifetime of ammunition decreases exponentially as temperature rises. This table is instructive on how quickly heat deteriorates smokeless propellants:


UN manual on ammunition inspection. See section 7.3.

Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nations[/B

http://www.un.org/disarmament/conva...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf




This is a good reference on stabilizers, notice the word “auto catalytic”

ROLE OF DIPHENYLAMINE AS A STABILIZER IN PROPELLANTS;ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY OF IPHENYLAMINE IN PROPELLANTS

Nitrocellulose-base propellants are essentially unstable materials that decompose on aging with the evolution of oxides of nitrogen. The decomposition is autocatalytic and can lead to failure of the ammunition or disastrous explosions.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/783499.pdf

Military surplus gunpowder, already old, caused fires when the stuff autocombusted:

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=3&t=248538

1. 10-02-2009, 11:02 AM#6
Cincinnati Kid
Platinum Bullet Member
Join Date
Dec 1969
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts
421

That IMR 5010 powder that came from Talon has caused several large fires here in Ohio, two of them locally to a friend of mine, and one large fire in Northern Ohio that I know of. Anyone who has any of that 5010 powder that came from Talon needs to dispose of it if it shows any signs of breaking down. I wouldn't trust any of it.

 

[dickttx]

Put them on the top shelf of various closets throughout the house.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Why not just store it in proper conditions and wait until you have time to reload. I keep mine in a wooden box with rice on the box (I live in Florida) in the same room where I have my computers, the temp never gets above 80 in that room. Even when I go on vacation, I leave the the window unit running at 80F.

What are the various columns in the table for? The 15-40 years?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Safe storage?
I have about 8-10 one pound cans in a 5 gallon bucket in the closet at my apartment. There's about 6-7k primers in the same closet in a different bucket.

Is that safe enough? lol

I'm sure apartment management would freak out if they knew, but they don't say anything to my neighbor who has a gas grill stored under the steps with a 20lb propane tank hooked up to it and a spare sitting beside it. So I'm not too concerned about it.

 

[ironworkerwill]

That stuff will blow your house off its foundation if it leaks and seeps down into the furnace or water heater pilot light!

Yea it will. I saw that video on Real T.V.

 

[scottishkat]

Powder Storage

I note that most states have a construction code which generally state how much smokeless propellant or black powder can be stored in a residence.

Virginia basically states that in R-3 or R-5 units we can store up to 50 pounds of black powder or 100 pounds of smokeless propellants in original containers less than 8 pounds and if we go over 100 pounds it should be kept in original containers up to 8 pounds in a wooden box with 1" thick walls up to 200 pounds.

I don't think that black powder or smokeless propellant is much of a concern in the house in the quantities we generally possess. That said I would lock them away from the children but I would keep it in the conditioned space.

Good luck and shoot straight.

Bob

 

[bobinoregon]

I just put extra powder jugs in the closets, some here some there. Primers are in the boxes they shipped in and just put somewhere out of the way. Anything I'm using is in the cabinet above the bench in the garage. Like the others have already said, we have way more dangerous things in the house and garage than powder and primers.

 

[Steve C]

It is unwise to store any propellant or explosive in a metal container. To do so is making a potential fragmentation grenade or bomb. Smokeless powder isn't an explosive like black powder but if contained sufficiently to allow pressure to build it will generate an explosion. It should be kept in something that will allow the gas to vent without restriction should it catch on fire. Also one shouldn't store primers next to powder.

This is the link to Alliants 2014 reloading manual in pdf. The first couple pages has information regarding proper powder handling and storage as well as how to check for deterioration.

If you decide you don't want to keep the powder and primers around, put an add in the paper, Craigs list or on the bulletin board of you local sportsman's club and sell them. Powder and primers have been in short supply and you can easily get all the money you originally paid for them 6 years ago back or more.

Another option would be to call a local sportsman's club and donate them, request the proceeds of the sale go to any youth shooting program they may be sponsoring. It should give you a nice tax deduction and a member would likely pick it up from your house so you wouldn't have to make a trip.

 

[splattergun]

Or...

...keep your components and consider arranging some of your invaluable family time to include shooting and reloading. How old are your kids?

I introduced my daughters to firearms at age 5. Others on this forum even younger. Some have their children assist in reloading with great results. Would your wife participate, if it means time spent with you?

There are options, my friend.

 

[dickttx]

As I said in post #10, store them on the top shelf in various closets in the house. I might add though, that a while back I made a diligent search, with a note pad, and finally found all my powder and primers. I then made a spreadsheet list of where they all are. I was having a real hard time finding them all when I needed them.

 

[enine]

Daughters are very good as inspecting brass as they like shiny things, my daughter will find and reject any imperfections.

 

[MCMXI]

This table is instructive on how quickly heat deteriorates smokeless propellants:

Not really. There's no time variable shown. Are we to assume that a powder whose temperature varies from 60F to 90F daily for two months of the year has the same shelf life as powder that is kept at a constant 90F? Does your chart assume steady state?