Safes with keypad lock

[Soybomb]

So I've decided I want to get a small safe. I don't have a lot of guns, don't plan to have alot of guns, and I plan on moving soon. So it doesn't have to be huge, light weight won't hurt my feelings, and cheap is always good. Walmart has a small safe (like 350lb or something) with a keypad lock on the door for like $300 I think. I'd consider buying this but I hear alot of people worrying about the reliability of an electronic lock. Are they really that prone to failure or it is just fear that they'll fail? I don't know how they work the locking mechanism but when they fail is it a remove the keypad and apply current to make it open, or a apply magic blue flamed cutting tool to make it open type fix?

Thanks!

 

[motoman]

Electronic Locks

I have one on my safe and it has worked flawlessly since new (2 years ago).
There is nothing wrong with a good quality electronic lock. I would avoid the cheaper safes with no name electronic keypads. Its a life long investment in security. Buy as much as you can afford, and get it bigger than you need now. Trust me on this one, I sure others with tell you the same thing. Get it bigger than you think you will need.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I bought a Cannon safe at the beginning of the summer and it came with the electronic keypad. It works great and I think it's easier to get into compared to a dial lock. I've read some posts here from folks that worry about the electromagnetic wave from a nuclear explosion. Um, if the wave hits my safe I think I have more to worry about then getting into it.

From what I was told when I bought it, the brains of the keypad is in the safe door and not the keypad itself. If the keypad breaks you just need to get a new keypad and hook it in. The brains will keep the code the same. The battery though is in the keypad. If the battery dies you have a certain timeframe to replace it before the code reverts back to the factory default. I believe the Cannon safes are like 12 hours of stored power once the battery dies. Not sure what it would be for that safe.

I guess it's not for everyone, but I like it. Oh and like motoman said, get a bigger one. I got a 28 gun safe and I already wish I'd got the bigger one. Couldn't afford it, but still wish I got it.

 

[silverlance]

well

bear in mind that the poster may not own his or her house.

i rent, so for now i have a sentry 14 gun with combo lock (the electronic sentry lock is a POS). when i move, i will give the safe to my roommate (who will one day inherit the house) as a gift and move on to a $2000 fort knox that would stay with me for the rest of my life.

 

[sm]

A search will turn up a lot of hits on this.

Short version is electric keypads can be bypassed with a 9 volt battery.

The BGs taught folks how to do this. Many "safes" are really "Residental Security Containers" (RSC). When folks noticed the guns were gone, but the fire axe hatchet, crow bar or similar was not used - they then noticed the 9 volt battery on the backside of safe and learned from the BGs how to get into a RSC if they did not have the combo.

Get a Sargent dial, get the best "safe" you can afford. Hide it well, and do not tell anyone you have guns, nor advertise having guns in taking in/ out of house.

Out of sight - out of mind.

FWIW I spent $25k on a Tann safe. BGs tried to get in ( not very hard, amatures). This one had 3 time locks, day lock, and other stuff. When they banged the dial - the glass broke inside door, locking everything down.

Cost me big bucks to have the safe guy fly out to "break into" my safe. It took him a long time, and he knew the workings of the safe, just some things are computer generated. He missed one "measurement" by 1/2", and the high dollar drill bits, kept going dull.

The other safe I had to have someone come "break into" was an old Navy Payroll Safe. This one the door pivoted "up" and then went straight in. They banged on that one and the dial pins locked it down.

Good buys can be had on the old grocery store safes mounted into the floor...great for handguns and other valuables. Save old carbide bits to mix into concrete when you pour this into wherever. Getting one out is a whole new experience.

 

[Soybomb]

I figure I probably still have a few years as a renter left before I own my own home, so until then I figure the $300 safe will be a 7 year safe, then maybe turn into an ammo locker when I buy a home, in the meantime I get more theft protection, can throw my camera bag in there, and keep a safe thats light enough to move by myself.

I think the only real point of failure I worry about would be the solenoid or whatever that is internal to the door that moves the bolts would fail and leave the safe locked. Doesn't sound like thats happened to anyone here though so far so I might be good.

 

[kwelz]

A search will turn up a lot of hits on this.

Short version is electric keypads can be bypassed with a 9 volt battery.

The BGs taught folks how to do this. Many "safes" are really "Residental Security Containers" (RSC). When folks noticed the guns were gone, but the fire axe hatchet, crow bar or similar was not used - they then noticed the 9 volt battery on the backside of safe and learned from the BGs how to get into a RSC if they did not have the combo.

Get a Sargent dial, get the best "safe" you can afford. Hide it well, and do not tell anyone you have guns, nor advertise having guns in taking in/ out of house.

I find this post highly suspect. Perhaps if we are talking about a 200 dollar Wal Mart special yes. But a Fort Knox or FireKing safe with an electronic pad is as hard to break into as one with an archaic dial.

I would much rather have an electronic pad than a dial. Much faster to access if I ever need to. I can program multiple codes for different people, and don't have to worry about going one number to far and having to start over with the combination.

 

[a1abdj]

From somebody who breaks into safes professionally:

Some locks (both mechanical and electronic) are UL listed. The most common of these found on gun safes are Group II mechanical, and Group 1 electronic. These locks are tested by professionals to meet a certain standard for manipulation and bypass resistance.

Although personally I prefer mechanical locks, the electronic versions do have some pros. The electronic locks are often faster and easier to use than mechanical locks. They are also very user freindly when it comes to changing the combination. The cons to the electronic locks, is like everything else electronic, they are prone to failure. There are more things than can go wrong with an electronic lock than an old fashioned mechanical lock.

You will not get into a safe locked with a Group 1 electronic lock by simply using a 9 volt battery.

In this particular case, I doubt the inexpensive safe you are looking at has a UL listed lock. Most of the electronics you see on the cheaper safes are very easy to bypass, even without tools or batteries. Beyond being easy to bypass, they are also made cheaper, and are even more disposable than the UL listed electronic locks. I sell some of these cheaper safes, and the warranty is void if used in a commercial setting, because the electronics can't hold up to heavy duty use.

If reliability is an issue, always go mechanical. If speed and simplicity is the issue, go electronic.

 

[Soybomb]

From somebody who breaks into safes professionally:

Some locks (both mechanical and electronic) are UL listed. The most common of these found on gun safes are Group II mechanical, and Group 1 electronic. These locks are tested by professionals to meet a certain standard for manipulation and bypass resistance.

Although personally I prefer mechanical locks, the electronic versions do have some pros. The electronic locks are often faster and easier to use than mechanical locks. They are also very user freindly when it comes to changing the combination. The cons to the electronic locks, is like everything else electronic, they are prone to failure. There are more things than can go wrong with an electronic lock than an old fashioned mechanical lock.

You will not get into a safe locked with a Group 1 electronic lock by simply using a 9 volt battery.

In this particular case, I doubt the inexpensive safe you are looking at has a UL listed lock. Most of the electronics you see on the cheaper safes are very easy to bypass, even without tools or batteries. Beyond being easy to bypass, they are also made cheaper, and are even more disposable than the UL listed electronic locks. I sell some of these cheaper safes, and the warranty is void if used in a commercial setting, because the electronics can't hold up to heavy duty use.

If reliability is an issue, always go mechanical. If speed and simplicity is the issue, go electronic.

Interesting information, thanks everyone. I like speed, but perhaps not as much as I dislike the idea of being locked out of my safe by a failure.

 

[Soybomb]

For anyone that cares, I downloaded the owners manual for the particular cheap walmart safe a while back, and it is not a UL listed lock.

Out of curiosity for either ul or non ul listed electronic locks, do you ever see them fail locked with a functional keypad or is it just the keypads that go out? I don't know what the mechanics of such a device are, but I'm guessing theres a solenoid of some sort that works for the locking/unlocking mechanism internally. Given the sentry safe's 1 year warranty I can't imagine its all that of a failure resistant mechanism.

From somebody who breaks into safes professionally:

Some locks (both mechanical and electronic) are UL listed. The most common of these found on gun safes are Group II mechanical, and Group 1 electronic. These locks are tested by professionals to meet a certain standard for manipulation and bypass resistance.

Although personally I prefer mechanical locks, the electronic versions do have some pros. The electronic locks are often faster and easier to use than mechanical locks. They are also very user freindly when it comes to changing the combination. The cons to the electronic locks, is like everything else electronic, they are prone to failure. There are more things than can go wrong with an electronic lock than an old fashioned mechanical lock.

You will not get into a safe locked with a Group 1 electronic lock by simply using a 9 volt battery.

In this particular case, I doubt the inexpensive safe you are looking at has a UL listed lock. Most of the electronics you see on the cheaper safes are very easy to bypass, even without tools or batteries. Beyond being easy to bypass, they are also made cheaper, and are even more disposable than the UL listed electronic locks. I sell some of these cheaper safes, and the warranty is void if used in a commercial setting, because the electronics can't hold up to heavy duty use.

If reliability is an issue, always go mechanical. If speed and simplicity is the issue, go electronic.

 

[a1abdj]

I see the failure of keypads as well as locks.

On most UL rated locks, the keypad is seperate from the lock, and can be replaced with the safe in the locked position. On some of the cheaper safes, the keypad and "lock" are essentially one unit.

All electronic locks use some sort of solenoid or motor to operate the lock itself, in addition to a circuit board that controls the lock and stores the combination.

Even though there are things that can go wrong in both sorts of locks, in my experience, the electronic locks have a much higher failure rate.

 

[Car Knocker]

I have an old commercial firesafe that dates back to the early 1900s and has an estimated weight of 1200#. I paid less, delivered, then many of the RSCs cost. Works as well now as when it was new. Mechanical lock, of course. I doubt that many of the electronic lock "safes" will still be functional when they are as old since the electronics will be obsolete and unreplaceable; whereas my old mechanical safe will still be functionable for my grandchildren, at the least.

Just out of curiosity, do the manufacturers of the electronic lock safes state how long replacement parts for the locks will be available or will you be SOL in 15 or 20 years when the electronics fail?

 

[a1abdj]

When any lock fails, it is best to replace the entire lock.

Many locks are fairly inexpensive, and not worth piecing back together. It cost a lot of money to get into a safe that has malfunctioned in the locked position. It's not worth saving a few dollars just to run into the same situation further down the road.

 

[JDC]

In this particular case, I doubt the inexpensive safe you are looking at has a UL listed lock. Most of the electronics you see on the cheaper safes are very easy to bypass, even without tools or batteries. Beyond being easy to bypass, they are also made cheaper, and are even more disposable than the UL listed electronic locks. I sell some of these cheaper safes, and the warranty is void if used in a commercial setting, because the electronics can't hold up to heavy duty use.

When an electronic keypad safe has been comprimised or "combination bypassed" , is there any way to tell it was opened via bypassing the saved 5 digit combination ?

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Not being a safe expert, or an electronics genius I chose the mechanical
lock as found on some of the Liberty RSC's. Thus far, its been a very happy
marriage~!

 

[Cavalier Knight]

Check my site under Manufacturers > Security

 

[xcop]

Keypad

Well I am one of the minority who has had a LaGard keypad break. This is something that a1abdj has warned about. The keypad failed while the door was locked closed so it simply involved changing the keypad. It did keep me from opening the safe for a couple of days until I got the replacement. I find the keyboard faster and much easier to use but the keypad failed in approximately 6 years of light use.

 

[shouldifail]

I picked up a small stack-on keypad "safe" about 6 months ago. Its actually more of a fairly beefy metal locking box than anything.
I wanted some way to secure my CCW at night when it was not on my person (I have a 5 year old stepdaughter, and I want to take no chances even though she knows not to touch.)
Anyways, mine has the keypad lock on it which makes it fast to open, but the selling point is that it also has a keyed backup should the batteries fail. Just pop off a cover next to the keypad and VOILA!
Granted, I know that this wouldn't stop a determined thief, but lag bolted into the hardwood floor, it would atleast delay the smash and grab thief.

I think i paid around $80 for it at Dicks sporting goods, and there was a smaller model for around $50 too...

 

[ATAShooter]

I've had my Fort Knox Guardian for 6 years now. It has the SG electronic lock. The other nite, as I opened it, a strange sound emitted from the internal motor ( or solenoid, whatever they call it ). It made me re-consider my selection. I have contacted the dealer and made arrangements to get a Traditional lock system and replace it.

All this started, when my Brother's electronic lock motor failed due to high humidity levels where he has the safe. He now has to get it professionally opened. The parts on his, IS covered by warranty, but labor and travel time is not. He has a Cannon.

So, I will re-post and let you know the cost of the parts on my Ft Knox, and how hard it was to convert.

 

[a1abdj]

So, I will re-post and let you know the cost of the parts on my Ft Knox, and how hard it was to convert.

It is easier to switch from a mechanical lock to an electronic lock than vice versa. There are also a number things that you can do wrong installing a mechanical lock that can result in a lock out.

I would hire a local safe tech (first choice) or locksmith experienced with safes (second choice) to come out and install it. Shouldn't cost more than $150.

 

[ATAShooter]

$150 ???? Labor quote was $500, thats why I was gonna try it.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

We use a safe that is idiot proof with three methods of entry. Electronic lock, keyoverride and battery override.

Our first safe was a walmart combination safe it was opened twice and then failed to open the third time. We returned it to walmart the next morning. Too many things was wrong with that safe; among them, plastic combination wheel.

Someone can find it, throw a chain on it and haul it through several walls. But it will probably be a long time before they figure out how to get in, by the time they do everything inside that safe will be irrevelant and a ticking bomb to the thieves.

 

[a1abdj]

$150 ???? Labor quote was $500, thats why I was gonna try it.

We would charge a service call and about a half hour of labor. $75 for the service call, and $125 an hour for the labor.

I know prices vary around the country, but that sound very high. I wouldn't think they would be charging those rates in NY.

Look here for somebody else in your area, and see what they say:

http://www.clearstar.com/yellform.htm

 

[Dark Skies]

Actually, or so I've read, there's a simple method to get into the cheaper keypad safes. If you dust the keypad with aluminium powder you can see the keys that the owner last pressed and work out the combination via trial and error.

 

[DoubleAction]

I had some trouble with my key pad, It quit working. I had installed new batteries and it failed to unlock. About the time a lock smith was his way, I got the safe open. He fixed it and two weeks past by and it done again. It was a S&G and I replaced it with a S&G mechanical lock.

I had this one since 1987 and It's given no trouble, but it's not electrical.​

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