Safest Progessive/Semi-Progessive Press

[roo_ster]

Howdy:

I started reloading a while back on a Rock Chucker. I am still refining technique and loads, but I can see a day when I'll want to go progressive to save time.

I would like to know which progressive loader is least likely, due to design, to have a mishap such as a primer detonation or especially an undetected double-charge.

I know the best safety device is sitting between my ears. No debate there. That being said, some mechanical designs are less prone mishap than others.

 

[Desert Dog]

As far as primer detonation, the safest system by far is the RCBS APS system... It uses plastic strips to hold the primers side-by-side as opposed to stacked like tube feeders do... You will have more outlay as you need to buy the strips and the strip loader if you use other brand primers than CCI. CCI primers can be purchased already in the strips...

 

[Maxinquaye]

Hate to say it, but the safest system in terms of avoiding a double charge is probably a Loadmaster. Now if they only made them with the APS system!

Actually, the more I think about it, can't you get powder lockout dies that will detect a double charge and stop the press? Even then you're relying on a mechanical device that could fail. Best thing to do is just check powder level visually as you put each bullet in. Muscle memory and habits are a pretty strong safety system!

 

[Zuma]

The RCBS Pro 2000 comes with a strip loader and extra strips. I use Winchester primers and load them onto strips. It is fairly fast and easy. I also use RCBS Powder Check and it has saved me a couple of times. It locks up the press if you have a double charge or if you miss putting a charge in a case.

Tom

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

As Zuma says, the RCBS powder check can be used on many if not most presses and avoids radical variations from the safe load--no powder or double charge. Hornady now sells a version of this "die" as well.

The things that would set off primers could happen to any method of delivery. At the point on the Hornady where there may be some danger of ignition the primer being loaded is isolated from the rest at least as far as on the RCBS strip method and the remaining are in a steel tube which might even decrease the exposure.

I will leave the testing to someone else with money, time and an urge for excitement.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Sadly, I'd say you get what you pay for

Before anybody listens to me they should read all the manufacturer's literature and view all the videos and all the boards - to include especially but not exclusively Brian Enos on Dillon and last year's Handloader cover story on the Hornady.

That said - I'd answer the question as asked by saying the big Dillon Super 1050 because there are enough stations to check the primer pocket (swage see p.12 of the manual and see exthread on seating a primer in a full pocket) and the powder charge and still do all the reloading steps and prime with arguably a better system than some other Dillons (which are perfectly adequate themselves if not the very best possible or imaginable) and lots of room and lots of visibility compared to some other machines.

In fact for the record I suspect a Star in really good shape and following our moderator's suggestions might actually have some real advantages for applicable calibers. In particular I'd look at suggested primer brands when thinking of APS strips.

On the other hand I am most emphatically not suggesting a jump from Rockchucker to 1050. I am mostly saying capitalism works and there aren't any bad ones out there.

I do suggest a close examination of the literature for available stations and functions on all of the machines before assuming there will be a station free for additional gadgets. Obviously not on the Square Deal B and there are some real limits on some other presses.

 

[redneck2]

One thing I've yet to figure out is the primer detonation thing. When I first started with my Dillon 450, I was having trouble with the primer feed. It was an older press and some of the parts had corroded slightly, and the primers wouldn't drop correctly. I had a few that dropped on their side and actually bent in half when I tried to seat them. None ever went off.

I've also decapped live primers. Can't say that I'd recommend it, but again, none have ever gone off. Real good reason to wear safety glasses though. I have always used Winchester to this point

I know that Lee is REAL big about not using Federal primers due to accidental discharge

 

[Deavis]

redneck,

You just haven't loaded enough ammunition yet or are really lucky

I've had primers detonate and all of the detonations occured when I attempted to prime S&B or WCC cases on my 650XL with WSP primers. I have decapped hundreds of live primers (first time reloading on a single stage, made an oops) and never had one go off. I have, on and off a press, crushed primers, cut them in half, burned, and mangled them beyond recognition without ever having one detonate. However, put 100 cases of WCC in my press and I guarantee you we will get at least one to go off if I jut "ram prime" away. I've learned to adjust my stroke speed to and now I can catch 99% of WCC catridges before the primer starts to seat in the case just by the feel. When one goes off it scares you and is loud but most of the time that is the only thing that happens.

I don't want to cast any doubts on the stories that I've seen about primer magazines blowing up but if you do some reading you will find that primers are pretty damn hard to set off since they are shipped "unstressed". I have tried, believe me. Read some of the experiments that Julian Hatcher did with primers and it will make you suspect that there are other circumstances (not suggesting something nefarious or intentional) involved when a 650XL blows up all the primers in its magazine via a chain reaction from blowing one up on the seater. It is a simple matter of looking at the system and realizing that it is not simple thing to get the magazine to detonate or chain react based on the location of the primer on the seater, the direction in which the explosion must travel to set off a bunch of unstressed, isolated primers in feed disk,and then travel up into the magazine.

 

[happy old sailor]

the Hornady powder check is named "powder cop". i have one on my LnL AP and recommend it. removes a lot of mystery. it has a small rod down the center , this rod having a small foot, for lack of another term, on the bottom of it. it has a white o ring on the shaft that you adjust to the top of the die, which is next after the powder die. takes only a glance to see if the o ring is in the right position. if it is above the die, too much powder, if below, you have a squib load going. i like it. saves me a lot of checking powder drops. squib loads are a torment. double loads are just plain dangerous, and downright scary to me. when loading on a single press, i put the powdered cases in a wooden loading block, tap the side to settle the powder some, then look down inside them to see if all cases are evenly charged. the powder cop would be useless with a single loader.

primer detonation can be avoided by paying attention and not trying to set a new record for rounds loaded in an hour.

stay cautious, stay safe. problems are usually operator induced, much like AD's. my .02

 

[Mooster1223]

As previously stated, the RCBS with priming strips is probably the safest. The Hornady second with it's priming step being performed as a "half step" between station one and two. I also incountered problems with priming S&B brass but have not had a detonation such as Deavis. My Hornady would not fully seat 4 primers out of the last 200 I loaded. I looked at the cases and the headstamps all read S&B. I need to go through my brass and seperate the S&B and give them to someone else. I've not had a problem with winnie brass "yet". Strangely enough, I don't recall having the high primer problem with S&B on my PRO 1000.

Keith

 

[taliv]

i have a 1050 and have had dozens of primer detonations with it for several different reasons. other than being loud though, none of them were at all dangerous due to the design/construction of the 1050. there was never a chance of blowing the whole tube of primers. so other than the annoyance and ringing ears for several minutes, i feel perfectly safe about it.

as for powder, i've never had the system drop a double charge or no charge. it meters most powders very well. i use the powder check die, but i'm not terribly happy with it. it works great on pistol cases, but i get so many false positives when loading .223, i've occasionally just removed the plunger completely and inspected every one manually.

 

[SnWnMe]

I made 12,000 rds of ammo between Sep03 and Dec04. If I didn't go on a six month deployment I coulda made more. Maybe I was just lucky, but I'd rather be paying attention, but I never had a squib or double charge. Odds are against me I know. My press is a Lee Pro1000. I cannot change the charge weight without disassembling the powder measure. I cannot put more powder in a charged case because the machine rotates it out of the way for me. Neat!

 

[redneck2]

Dunno...

I'd suspect I've loaded maybe 10,000 rounds total, nearly all pistol to this point. I'd likely never say anything is impossible, but a couple things to remember..

if you use a progressive the way it's supposed to be used, it's almost impossible to double charge. Reason is, you'll already have a bullet in the case in station 3 (at least on my Dillon 550). To double charge a case, you'd have to cycle the ram again and NOT put a bullet in the case in the #3 station.

So...if you stop for any reason, or something interrupts your "rhythm", take all the cases out of their respective stations. Where you get into problems is if you're messing with, say, the primer feed. You have to cycle the ram a couple times to pick up a primer. Problem is, you've just double or triple charged station #2 (powder). Now, if you've removed the cases from all the other stations, it's not a problem. The case activates the powder measure, so no powder drops in the empty station.

So..if you stop, remove the cases from each station. You'll be fine. And when you set up originally or change settings, do one case all the way thru the stations until everything is adjusted.

Primer detonation...man, I still don't know about this one. If you can mangle a primer as bad as some I've seen and still not have it go off, I can't imagine what it takes. Hope I don't find out.