Safety of shotshell powder in handguns

[wv67]

I know using various shotshell powders in handgun loads has been done for ages, but I stumbled onto this in an article on reloading in "Real Guns" and was wondering what some of you experienced reloaders think.

An excerpt:

Many published loads for metallic pistol cartridges include the use of powder designed primarily for shotshell use, powders such as: IMR 700X and 800X, Alliant's American Select and Unique products, Hodgdon's Lil 'Gun, Longshot and Clays are shotshell powders first, but also are useful in handgun cartridges. Not in the context of the companies I've just noted, but as a more general concept advanced by the QuickLoad author, shotshell powders are routinely peak pressure tested to 15,000 psi and may not be tested for higher pressures found in handgun cartridges - even when load data is published for a particular cartridge. Some companies don't test each lot of same type powder, even though powder characteristics may vary significantly from one lot to another. The problem is powder will have predictable peak pressure within ranges.


QuickLoad uses the example of a shotgun powder type that is routinely tested for peak pressure results between 10,000 and 15,000 psi. From a single lot, the powder supplier worked up some handgun loads that operated safely at 25,000 psi, a safe pressure for the handgun cartridge. A new lot of the same powder arrived and again tested safe in the 10,000 to 15,000 psi range. Unfortunately, when the charge was raised to handgun levels, the charge that once yielded 25,000 psi, now produced 60,000 psi.


I'm new to reloading and am trying to learn all I can and found this to go counter to what I believe many reloaders regularly do.

Thoughts??

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

most 'flake' powders that I'm aware of are primarily shotty powders. Red Dot is one of these and I've used a good amount of it. it is 'peaky' however so max loads (I use it for cast slugs) should be metered/measured carefully. IMO it's better than BullsEye (a powder designed for handgun cartridges) for cast slugs in the several different hadgun rounds I load. you'll get lots of input on this one I'm sure.

 

[jmorris]

If the manufacture publishes data for it to be used (rifle, pistol, shotgun) I trust it more than any article written by anyone and posted anywhere. There are entire divisions of corporations that do nothing but try and make sure they don’t loose law suits when people make mistakes. Publishing data that could be proven harmful would be counter productive to this.

 

[jmorris]

As for the quick load results, it is just a computer program that runs calculations from the numbers input by the programmers, read the disclaimer that comes with it. No powder co. would rely on calculations for reloading data, it's all tested.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've been loading "shotgun" powders in pistol cases since about 1963, and have yet to encounter a problem. But then, I'm still learning this hobby...........

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: Are those the same computer models they use for "global warming"????

 

[EddieNFL]

I've been loading "shotgun" powders in pistol cases since about 1963, and have yet to encounter a problem. But then, I'm still learning this hobby...........

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: Are those the same computer models they use for "global warming"????

But you ran the loads through Quickload first, right?

It appears a rag writer was out of ideas.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'll trust the pressure test barrel and strain gauge results from the powder companies.

Inconsitencies in lot manufacturing leading to more than double the pressure? Doubt it. A powder company that had such problems would be long out of business from lawsuits.

About half of my handgun loads are with shotgun powders, many of them toward the upper end and beyond. I don't have a strain gauge, but I think it's safe to say that those guns would not have held together for hundreds and thousands of round if pressure had more than doubled.

 

[wv67]

Thanks for the input so far. As I said, just trying to learn from those with more experience and this article seemed to fly head on into what I know is an accepted practice. I agree that in the litigious society we live in it would be hard to imagine the mfr of a product publishing unsafe data.

ReloaderFred: As far as global warming goes, I'm somewhat surprised the burning of gunpowder has yet to be identified as a source to this dire problem!

Regards

 

[snuffy]

Somebody gave somebody a computer with a keyboard, then gave him access to a website to post what he wrote. That don't make him an expert, or make what he's saying correct. IT ISN'T1 Powder simply cannot vary that much from batch/lot to lot. It would be unusable by us handloaders if it did.

Don't believe everything you read!

 

[rcmodel]

+1000
If pressure raised that much in a handgun by changing lots of the same powder, it would also blow up shotguns.

Internet B.S. I say!!
Probably drinking when he typed in the numbers.

rc

 

[243winxb]

Blue Dot would fall into this powder type, is my guess. Alliants website tells us never to us it in 41mag. or 357mag/125gr loads. http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx

 

[ranger335v]

"I'm new to reloading and am trying to learn all I can and found this to go counter to what I believe many reloaders regularly do."

A basic rule I've learned to follow is, if I'm uncomfortable with doing something I don't do it.

 

[JimKirk]

I've been reloading since 1965 with a mentor(older friend), since 1969(on my own).

I'd like to have the powder that I've shot up and the primers too, A big percentage of it has been shotgun powder... shot in pistols.

Here's a partial list that I've shot:

Blue Dot
Clays
Green Dot
Herco
Red Dot
Unique
HS 6
HS 7
800X
700X
W571
W540
WSF
WST
Many more that I can't remember the names.

All these are shotgun powders and they shoot dang well in handguns.

Have I pressure tested any of the loads, no not with any testing equipment, because I
don't own any such equipment.

However I have pressure tested it the way most of us older reloaders have.

First by using tested data.

Then by the looks of the fired primer and before you whiz kids jump down my throat, it is just one of the indicators of pressure.

How a case extracts from a cylinder, is another.

Start low and work your way up.... the only way.

This was all we had before computer programs came along and it worked dang well for me and a lot of other reloaders.

So go ahead, trust what you read on the web, just like you trust that GPS that takes you around the state to get five miles.

All this technology is good, but you have some common sense to use with it, that seems to be lacking as of late.

Maybe Al Gore who invented the INTERNET, also invented Global warming( to get RICH)....
he may have invented that computer program too!!!!


Jimmy K

 

[JDGray]

If a powder is listed in a reloading manual, your good to go! I've loaded thousands of target 45 loads with Clays, and never had a problem. Super fast shotgun powders, in handgun loads, leaves a lot of room in the case, and invites possible double or triple charges, so be very carefull using them.

 

[rcmodel]

Blue Dot would fall into this powder type, is my guess. Alliants website tells us never to us it in 41mag. or 357mag/125gr loads.

Seems quite odd that it only applied to those two calibers when it is still fine in 9mm, 357 SIG, heavy bullet .357, 40 S&W, 10mm, .44 Mag, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt!

The problem was only that Alliant published some max CUP .357 & 41 Mag loads some years ago that have since tested over-pressure on transducer PSI equipment.

Rather then just saying so, and publishing new data, they took the easy way out and blamed it on using it in two specific calibers they made the mistake on.

rc

 

[oneounceload]

I have used Unique, Universal Clays, Clays among others, for handguns. All are shotgun powders that I have found work very well in handgun cartridges from 32SWL to 357