Plead to powder makers for 19k psi 45 Colt load data

[NeroM]

45 Colt has been a successful cartridge for almost 150 years now, I've been loading it for the latter 1/3 of that time. Aside from black powder loads there are bullet and powder maker published data for loads at the SAAMI pressure limit of 14k psi and some at approx 28-30k PSI. Appreciate the efforts these makers have invested in developing the data, while i know it is self serving - it is a great benefit to hand loaders. A missing element among 45 Colt data is the so called tier 2 data, pressures above 14k, but well below 30k- something around 20k psi. This is an area where the 45 Colt really becomes a highly effective hunting tool. I know there was a good Handloader article with the 270-280 gr SAA bullet, would like to see data for the more commonly available 255 gr SWC. To be really effective, the SAA bullet needs to be driven at tier 3 levels, as does the CPC 265 gr WFN-CG bullet. The same for 300+ gr bullets.
If we use current on line data for 250-255 LSCW from Alliant and Hodgdon as a starting point:
Alliant lists a Herco load of 9.5 gr for 1021 fps, presume the pressure is around 14k psi. Herco is my default powder for 45 Colt, as it fills a lot of the case. 9.0 gr gives me around 950 fps from a M25. Unique has been sort of a default powder for 45 Colt, my preference is Herco.
Hodgdon (plus Accurate) shows a load of 9.2 gr CFE-P giving 1014 fps for a pressure of 13k; have used this loading when i didn't have Herco.
Accurate [Hodgdon] shows a load of 19.5 gr for 5744 giving 1011 fps at 14k psi. 5744 is a slower very bulky powder, have made some very consistent loads for 45 Colt carbine. Accurate also gives high pressure data for this powder with 28 gr giving 1396 fps at 30k psi for 255 gr LSWC.
I can plot the 5744 data from 17.6 gr at 12.6k to 28 gr at 30k psi and develop a regression projecting a load with 19k psi and corresponding velocity. Plus there are LoadData models available, these are all best estimate calculations.

POWDER MAKERS.........
please work up and publish a few 45 Colt loads at 19k PSI for 255 gr LSWC ?
Thanks in advance for your efforts !

 

[Ru4real]

Agree, would be nice to see loads at 18k to 24k psi for 45 Colt listed in reference sources.

But we handloaders are a crafty bunch. For 255 cast, CFE pistol at 11 grains is good, and HS-6 at 13 grains is better for getting 1080 (4” barrel) or 1200 (7.5” barrel) or 1400 (20” barrel) fps. I have a guess on pressure, but more importantly, I can measure the velocity.

The powders I prefer work better at 20k ish psi so I load for the velocities I’ve listed. There are a lot of powders in the 9 to 13 grain range that will get the velocity I want, I just look for small velocity spreads and tight groups for 10 shots which translates to optimum pressure for the powder I’m testing.

Is it 19k or 21k or 23k? Accuracy is way more important, I think. An easy way to get started is to reduce by a couple grains from published 45 Colt (Ruger only) STARTING loads. https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

Works well in these 45 Colts

 

[MEHavey]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...45-colt-data&p=5017532&viewfull=1#post5017532

Also: http://buffalobore.net/HandloaderDecJan2012.pdf

 

[Rule3]

Here is a list of many 45 colt loads

https://reloadammo.com/45-colt-load-data/

 

[BBarn]

All it would take is a few SAAMI members supporting a +P pressure standard for the 45 Colt. It's been done for several cartridges, including the 45 Auto. Not sure why it hasn't happened, especially given the support "Ruger and T/C" 45 Colt loads have had in loading manuals for decades.

 

[Charlie98]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...45-colt-data&p=5017532&viewfull=1#post5017532

I have that Brian Pierce data printed off and in my .45 Colt data. It's not perfect, but it gives you a reliable starting point, OP.

 

[black mamba]

According to my Gordon's Reloading Tool software, 11.0 gr. of Herco under a PC 255 SWC from a 5 inch barrel gives 1053 fps @ 22 kpsi. With BE-86, 9.8 gr. gives the same velocity and pressure. 10.0 gr. of Unique gives 1032 fps @ 22 kpsi. 15.8 gr. of Blue Dot gives 1070 fps at the same pressure. Accurate #7 gives 1107 fps @ 22 kpsi with 16.9 gr. of powder. All of these figures are theoretical and should be approached from 10% lower charges.

 

[P Flados]

Caution ----- This post includes Quickload output that is not considered to be as reliable as test data and it includes data that is UNSAFE for some guns. Use of this data is only recommended for individuals that understand the limitations of their guns and understand how to work up loads safely.

The Quickload software is a very useful tool when you have published load data to "benchmark" the results. It is also very useful for finding the more optimum burn rate powders for best velocity.

For the Lyman 255 cast bullet, lets first see what it says about the relative performance of various powders. The OP mentioned 20,00 psi, so that is what I ran:

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .452, 255, LYM LSWC 454424
Useable Case Capaci: 26.954 grain H2O = 1.750 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 20000 psi, or 137 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N105 *C                  80.8     15.7     1.02    1466    99.5    20000    1915   1.339  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.7                       60.2     16.0     1.04    1428    94.3    20000    1935   1.372  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D037.1                        59.8     16.0     1.04    1428    94.3    20000    1935   1.372  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.9                       67.2     17.7     1.15    1420    88.8    20000    1966   1.372  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D037.2 Heavy Pistol           66.5     17.7     1.15    1420    88.8    20000    1966   1.372  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S040                          81.6     18.1     1.17    1415    85.5    20000    1967   1.369  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BLUE DOT                    76.3     15.4     1.00    1408    92.9    20000    1891   1.382  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N38                     72.9     14.8     0.96    1391    96.6    20000    1744   1.385  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant POWER PISTOL                60.1     11.8     0.77    1391    99.2    20000    1719   1.382  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D036                          45.6     11.7     0.76    1341    99.9    20000    1493   1.405  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.5                       45.6     11.7     0.76    1340    99.9    20000    1492   1.405  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N37                     61.5     11.8     0.76    1324   100.0    20000    1362   1.416  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon HS-6                        49.7     12.2     0.79    1319   100.0    20000    1378   1.418  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N350                     64.0     11.6     0.75    1317   100.0    20000    1330   1.415  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Longshot                    47.3     11.8     0.77    1310   100.0    20000    1326   1.423  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant HERCO                       67.7     10.6     0.68    1305   100.0    20000    1291   1.436  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot True Blue                   46.4     11.7     0.76    1304   100.0    20000    1308   1.425  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 540                      45.7     11.7     0.76    1303   100.0    20000    1304   1.426  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WAP                      49.4     10.7     0.69    1277   100.0    20000    1202   1.438  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant UNIQUE                      59.5      9.5     0.62    1276   100.0    20000    1187   1.450  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Silhouette                  49.2     10.6     0.69    1275   100.0    20000    1195   1.440  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S035                          66.7     10.3     0.67    1261   100.0    20000    1135   1.454  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N340                     58.8      9.7     0.63    1244   100.0    20000    1091   1.461  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.2                       55.9      9.2     0.60    1240   100.0    20000    1106   1.459  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S020                          54.5      9.4     0.61    1232   100.0    20000    1054   1.474  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S030                          53.4      9.3     0.60    1220   100.0    20000    1034   1.473  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N330                     55.5      9.0     0.58    1211   100.0    20000     993   1.487  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Universal                   54.4      8.7     0.56    1210   100.0    20000    1009   1.498  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Maxam CSB 2                         58.7      8.9     0.58    1194   100.0    20000     951   1.515  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Maxam CSB 1                         61.5      9.0     0.58    1183   100.0    20000     918   1.503  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant GREEN DOT                   55.3      7.7     0.50    1147   100.0    20000     872   1.542  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant RED DOT                     55.6      6.9     0.45    1114   100.0    20000     810   1.571  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma R1                            56.3      7.1     0.46    1074   100.0    20000     737   1.616  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            72.6      9.0     0.58    1074   100.0    20000     715   1.617  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR TrailBoss                      105.0      8.8     0.57    1056   100.0    17656     715   1.667  ! Near Maximum !

Some of the articles quote 23000 psi as an applicable limit. So here is that data:

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .452, 255, LYM LSWC 454424
Useable Case Capaci: 26.954 grain H2O = 1.750 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 23000 psi, or 158 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N105 *C                  85.1     16.5     1.07    1529    99.9    23000    1975   1.264  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.7                       63.7     16.9     1.10    1498    96.0    23000    2048   1.292  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D037.1                        63.2     16.9     1.10    1498    96.0    23000    2048   1.292  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.9                       70.9     18.7     1.21    1491    91.0    23000    2094   1.293  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D037.2 Heavy Pistol           70.2     18.7     1.21    1491    91.0    23000    2094   1.293  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S040                          85.9     19.0     1.23    1485    87.9    23000    2100   1.290  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BLUE DOT                    81.0     16.4     1.06    1480    94.9    23000    2016   1.300  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant POWER PISTOL                64.2     12.7     0.82    1460    99.8    23000    1815   1.300  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N38                     77.2     15.6     1.01    1458    98.0    23000    1838   1.305  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D036                          48.8     12.5     0.81    1405   100.0    23000    1565   1.324  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.5                       48.8     12.5     0.81    1405   100.0    23000    1563   1.324  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N37                     65.6     12.6     0.82    1382   100.0    23000    1425   1.337  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon HS-6                        53.1     13.0     0.85    1379   100.0    23000    1441   1.338  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N350                     68.2     12.3     0.80    1374   100.0    23000    1390   1.337  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Longshot                    50.5     12.6     0.82    1369   100.0    23000    1389   1.343  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant HERCO                       72.6     11.3     0.73    1363   100.0    23000    1360   1.355  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot True Blue                   49.7     12.5     0.81    1363   100.0    23000    1370   1.345  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 540                      48.9     12.5     0.81    1362   100.0    23000    1367   1.346  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WAP                      53.0     11.4     0.74    1334   100.0    23000    1267   1.359  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant UNIQUE                      64.0     10.2     0.66    1332   100.0    23000    1255   1.369  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Silhouette                  52.7     11.4     0.74    1332   100.0    23000    1261   1.360  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S035                          71.3     11.0     0.71    1314   100.0    23000    1191   1.375  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N340                     63.0     10.4     0.67    1298   100.0    23000    1150   1.382  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.2                       59.7      9.8     0.64    1294   100.0    23000    1162   1.379  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S020                          58.3     10.1     0.65    1284   100.0    23000    1110   1.395  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S030                          57.3      9.9     0.64    1274   100.0    23000    1092   1.393  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Universal                   58.6      9.4     0.61    1263   100.0    23000    1073   1.416  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N330                     59.5      9.6     0.63    1262   100.0    23000    1051   1.409  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Maxam CSB 2                         63.1      9.5     0.62    1244   100.0    23000    1008   1.435  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Maxam CSB 1                         66.2      9.7     0.63    1234   100.0    23000     974   1.422  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant GREEN DOT                   59.8      8.3     0.54    1199   100.0    23000     932   1.458  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant RED DOT                     60.4      7.5     0.48    1165   100.0    23000     871   1.486  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma R1                            61.2      7.7     0.50    1123   100.0    23000     794   1.528  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            78.3      9.7     0.63    1119   100.0    23000     762   1.534  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR TrailBoss                      105.0      8.8     0.57    1056   100.0    17656     715   1.667  ! Near Maximum !

Next lets take a look at one specific powder with load data and see what it says for a variety of charges. Here is the HS-6 results:

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .452, 255, LYM LSWC 454424
Useable Case Capaci: 26.954 grain H2O = 1.750 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon HS-6

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 3.077% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-30.8   37     9.00   1057     632   10897   1065     96.3    1.856
-27.7   38     9.40   1092     675   11842   1113     97.3    1.789
-24.6   40     9.80   1127     719   12840   1158     98.1    1.725
-21.5   42    10.20   1161     763   13890   1201     98.8    1.664
-18.5   43    10.60   1194     807   14994   1242     99.3    1.608
-15.4   45    11.00   1226     851   16153   1280     99.6    1.556
-12.3   46    11.40   1257     895   17369   1315     99.9    1.507  ! Near Maximum !
-09.2   48    11.80   1288     940   18644   1348    100.0    1.461  ! Near Maximum !
-06.2   50    12.20   1318     984   19979   1378    100.0    1.419  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.1   51    12.60   1348    1028   21375   1408    100.0    1.379  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0   53    13.00   1376    1072   22836   1437    100.0    1.342  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1   55    13.40   1404    1117   24363   1467    100.0    1.306  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.2   56    13.80   1432    1161   25958   1496    100.0    1.273  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.2   58    14.20   1459    1205   27623   1525    100.0    1.242  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+12.3   59    14.60   1485    1249   29361   1554    100.0    1.213  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+15.4   61    15.00   1511    1294   31174   1583    100.0    1.185  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     53    13.00   1406    1119   26210   1386    100.0    1.282  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     53    13.00   1330    1002   19468   1498     99.4    1.424  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

The Hodgdon data for 250 and 260 bullets indicates you would reach 14,000 psi around 10.7 grs of HS-6. Quickload says 14,000 psi needs only around 10.3 gr or so. At this pressure for this powder the above indicates the Quickload data is "safe" as compared to tested data.

Now lets look at AA 5. I found load data on both sides for this powder.

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .452, 255, LYM LSWC 454424
Useable Case Capaci: 26.954 grain H2O = 1.750 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Accurate No.5

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 3.125% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-31.3   34     8.80   1086     667   11373   1145     95.1    1.812
-28.1   36     9.20   1123     714   12387   1201     96.2    1.743
-25.0   37     9.60   1160     762   13455   1254     97.2    1.677
-21.9   39    10.00   1196     810   14579   1305     98.0    1.616
-18.8   41    10.40   1231     859   15761   1354     98.6    1.561
-15.6   42    10.80   1266     907   17001   1399     99.2    1.509  ! Near Maximum !
-12.5   44    11.20   1300     956   18301   1442     99.6    1.460  ! Near Maximum !
-09.4   45    11.60   1333    1005   19664   1483     99.8    1.415  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.3   47    12.00   1365    1055   21090   1520    100.0    1.373  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.1   48    12.40   1396    1104   22583   1554    100.0    1.334  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0   50    12.80   1427    1153   24144   1588    100.0    1.297  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1   51    13.20   1457    1202   25774   1621    100.0    1.262  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.3   53    13.60   1486    1251   27477   1654    100.0    1.230  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.4   55    14.00   1515    1300   29255   1687    100.0    1.199  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+12.5   56    14.40   1543    1349   31110   1720    100.0    1.170  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+15.6   58    14.80   1571    1398   33045   1752    100.0    1.143  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     50    12.80   1459    1206   27628   1531    100.0    1.239  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     50    12.80   1377    1073   20670   1639     98.9    1.376  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

The Hodgdon data for a 255 with AA 5 includes 9.6 grs for for 13400 psi, 13.2 gr for 25,400 psi and 15.5 gr for 29900 psi. Quickload is very close for the first two data points and is conservative (reports a higher pressure) for the third.

Last, lets look at AA 7

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .452, 255, LYM LSWC 454424
Useable Case Capaci: 26.954 grain H2O = 1.750 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Accurate No.7

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.807% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-18.1   51    13.60   1239     869   13625   1600     88.0    1.630
-16.3   52    13.90   1263     903   14317   1644     88.9    1.593
-14.5   53    14.20   1287     938   15037   1688     89.8    1.558
-12.7   55    14.50   1311     973   15784   1731     90.6    1.524
-10.8   56    14.80   1334    1008   16561   1773     91.4    1.491
-09.0   57    15.10   1358    1044   17367   1814     92.2    1.460  ! Near Maximum !
-07.2   58    15.40   1381    1080   18203   1855     92.9    1.430  ! Near Maximum !
-05.4   59    15.70   1404    1116   19072   1895     93.6    1.401  ! Near Maximum !
-03.6   60    16.00   1427    1153   19972   1934     94.2    1.373  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.8   61    16.30   1450    1190   20907   1971     94.8    1.346  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0   62    16.60   1473    1228   21876   2008     95.4    1.320  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8   64    16.90   1495    1266   22880   2044     96.0    1.295  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   65    17.20   1517    1304   23922   2079     96.5    1.271  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.4   66    17.50   1540    1342   25002   2112     96.9    1.248  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.2   67    17.80   1562    1381   26121   2145     97.4    1.225  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.0   68    18.10   1583    1420   27281   2176     97.7    1.203  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     62    16.60   1543    1347   26114   2007     99.2    1.232  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     62    16.60   1382    1082   17840   1925     88.4    1.436  ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon data has 15.4 grs giving 25500 psi and 18.1 grs giving 30000 psi. Quickload is UNCONSERVATIVE for both loads.

As seen from the above, some powders in some guns match test data pretty good. Other times, not so much. This may be due to inaccurate powder parameters in Quickload, inaccurate test data or something about a specific load that causes the powder to behave differently than predicted.

 

[ahutch71]

Not sure if the OP has seen the latest issue of Handloader Magazine, but it's as if he wished it and it became reality. There is a feature article on Class 2 45 Colt (aka 45 Colt +P loads). I subscribe, so I think that i get it slightly before it hits the stands, but it's on the way.

 

[NeroM]

Ahutch...
Yes, saw this in another post,
Trying to get s copy.
Thanks!

 

[MEHavey]

See
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...45-colt-data&p=5018428&viewfull=1#post5018428,
... and
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...45-colt-data&p=5017758&viewfull=1#post5017758

 

[NeroM]

Yes, have the HL#246 article for SAA bullet. Also have cast and purchased this bullet - Montana Bullet produces an excellent one. Sorry to say, have not had the best success with this bullet at 14-20k psi (1000 fps); have loaded this with 2400 and Longshot to 28k psi for around 1200 fps - very effective at that level.

 

[NeroM]

PS...
For now, have settled on a 45 Colt hunting load of approx 10 gr Herco for 255 gr SWC from OTB - getting around 1050 fps from an M25. Load appears to be under 20k psi, powder fills a lot of the case, velocity is consistent - bullet performs well at this velocity, no leading and gun likes the load.

 

[thump_rrr]

45 Colt has been a successful cartridge for almost 150 years now, I've been loading it for the latter 1/3 of that time. Aside from black powder loads there are bullet and powder maker published data for loads at the SAAMI pressure limit of 14k psi and some at approx 28-30k PSI. Appreciate the efforts these makers have invested in developing the data, while i know it is self serving - it is a great benefit to hand loaders. A missing element among 45 Colt data is the so called tier 2 data, pressures above 14k, but well below 30k- something around 20k psi. This is an area where the 45 Colt really becomes a highly effective hunting tool. I know there was a good Handloader article with the 270-280 gr SAA bullet, would like to see data for the more commonly available 255 gr SWC. To be really effective, the SAA bullet needs to be driven at tier 3 levels, as does the CPC 265 gr WFN-CG bullet. The same for 300+ gr bullets.
If we use current on line data for 250-255 LSCW from Alliant and Hodgdon as a starting point:
Alliant lists a Herco load of 9.5 gr for 1021 fps, presume the pressure is around 14k psi. Herco is my default powder for 45 Colt, as it fills a lot of the case. 9.0 gr gives me around 950 fps from a M25. Unique has been sort of a default powder for 45 Colt, my preference is Herco.
Hodgdon (plus Accurate) shows a load of 9.2 gr CFE-P giving 1014 fps for a pressure of 13k; have used this loading when i didn't have Herco.
Accurate [Hodgdon] shows a load of 19.5 gr for 5744 giving 1011 fps at 14k psi. 5744 is a slower very bulky powder, have made some very consistent loads for 45 Colt carbine. Accurate also gives high pressure data for this powder with 28 gr giving 1396 fps at 30k psi for 255 gr LSWC.
I can plot the 5744 data from 17.6 gr at 12.6k to 28 gr at 30k psi and develop a regression projecting a load with 19k psi and corresponding velocity. Plus there are LoadData models available, these are all best estimate calculations.

POWDER MAKERS.........
please work up and publish a few 45 Colt loads at 19k PSI for 255 gr LSWC ?
Thanks in advance for your efforts !

If you have access to a chronograph you can plug all the data that you have into Gordons Reloading Tool and see the model they come up with.
You can increase your load incrementally and plug your new data as you go and see where it leads you with your actual gun.
Just because load data is published doesn't mean that it will be good in the firearm that you are using it in.

 

[edwardware]

. . . published data for loads at the SAAMI pressure limit of 14k psi and some at approx 28-30k. . . POWDER MAKERS please work up and publish a few 45 Colt loads at 19k. . .

I don't get it. There's low-end Peacemaker level data, and there's high-end Ruger/TC data. What would be accomplished by publishing intermediate data other than potential confusion and damaged low-pressure guns?

If the Ruger/TC data is too hot for you, find a relatively faster powder in that data and back it down 'till you like it. The ability to do this sort of thing is WHY we handload.

For now, have settled on a 45 Colt hunting load of approx 10 gr Herco for 255 gr SWC from OTB - getting around 1050 fps from an M25.

Viola! Nothing about this would have been easier if that load was published in a manual. . . but it might require a 3rd 45 Colt chapter in that manual.

 

[jmorris]

A missing element among 45 Colt data is the so called tier 2 data, pressures above 14k, but well below 30k- something around 20k psi. This is an area where the 45 Colt really becomes a highly effective hunting tool.

What is your intentions loading to a particular pressure? Seems to me the speed the bullet is traveling would make a bigger difference on its performance than the pressure that pushed it out the barrel.

As an exercise let’s see what we can deduce from a couple of pages of a manual.

IIRC 45LC is 15,900cup and the Ruger/tc loads 25,000 cup.

Stopping before they exceed 15,900cup they used 15.1gn of AA#9.



Using a different firearm, capable of withstanding the additional pressure, they went all the way to 17.8gn of AA#9.



Right away, it’s worth noting that a 15.1 grain from firearm “A” went slower than a 14.8 gn load from firearm “B”. So to get a particular velocity out of a given firearm, you really need a chronograph. If you still think it’s pressure that’s key we can keep going though.

So one data set is limited to 15,900 cup, the other 25,000cup, that is a 9100 cup difference. The powder charge difference between the two is 2.7 grains. Divide 9100 by 2.7 and that gets us 3370 cup per grain of powder. It’s worth noting that powder charge and pressure is NOT a linear relationship, however in this small window of charge weights it is pretty close if we graph the data.

So take the 15.1 grain max load (15,900 cup) and the 3,370 cup per grain of powder we calculated, 16.1 grains should give us 19,270cup and as long as you are down loading a firearm capable handling the 25,000 cup load you won’t be putting yourself at any risk using the deduced load.



It’s obvious the data is there, because the starting load for the Ruger/TC is lower than the max load of the standard pressure data. They just don’t tell you the pressure they measured for each charge weight.

That said, they also have load data elsewhere in that manual that shows different results for the same powder, same bullet, same gun, so there are other factors changing the results they gathered during testing.

 

[MEHavey]

Again... See Post#11
There are at least 3 tiers of single-action gun designs out there now (std-design SAA, the likes of a New Vaquero, and Old/Full-Sized Ruger)
-- not to mention several rifles 1873Win, 1894 Marlin, 1892Win, Henry... etc etc.--
and therefore multiple reasons to consider 3 Tiers of load pressure/gun stress from reliable/published sources.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

FOUR tiers of .45Colt loads - Traditional SAA, Old Ruger/S&W, New Ruger/S&W, and T/C. The .454Cassull gets it's own listing, too.
No discussion of rifle loads because it's all about pistol and revolver.
The Third Edition drops some powders I really like but it's also worthwhile having.

 

[P Flados]

PS...
For now, have settled on... ....bullet performs well at this velocity, no leading and gun likes the load.

Emphasis added above. What every cast bullet handloader wants to say. Congrats

 

[wcwhitey]

Emphasis added above. What every cast bullet handloader wants to say. Congrats

Exactly right! The question was asked earlier what velocity for what purpose is 20K pressures necessary. If a round is accurate and over 1000 fps already what advantage is 1100 fps? Faster then that or maybe at that that SWC unless gas checked is more than likely going to be a problem. Jacketed bullets are a different animal and some may need that extra velocity for consistent expansion. Pressure can go up very quickly for every 50 fps with those heavy bullets.

 

[RealGun]

I would be cautious about the assumption that if a platform is known to be offered in 44 Magnum, it must be okay for heavier 45 Colt loads. The cylinder walls are thinner in 45 Colt, and the gun maker may not offer the gun in that caliber. I have loaded for and shot 45 Colt at 20k or so level in a NMV and did not think the gun was suitable at all YMMV. I also had a large frame NM Blackhawk with a custom target grip, and it did much better, although it had the .454 chambers paired with .451 bore as the reason the gun went down the road. As a convertible it was probably better as 45 ACP. Ru4real's S&W guns pictured are some examples. "Ruger only" is what it is, and then only some Rugers certainly.

 

[35 Whelen]

A couple of very simple options for you are 1) Go to the Wolfe Publishing website and buy back issues of Handloader magazines numbers 246, 275 and 337 where you'll find a total of well over two hundred (probably closer to 300) 45 Colt loads in the 20-23K psi range. Handloader #337 (current issue) has a great article on which revolvers are capable of handling 23K psi loads. Or better yet 2) Subscribe to www.loaddata.com. There you'll find ALL of the 23K psi 45 Colt loads in said magazines where you can filter to any bullet weight or powder you want, print them out and put them in a binder to keep forever. I have been a subscriber to this sight for over 10 years and wouldn't dream of not renewing my subscription every year.

35W

 

[RealGun]

A couple of very simple options for you are 1) Go to the Wolfe Publishing website and buy back issues of Handloader magazines numbers 246, 275 and 337 where you'll find a total of well over two hundred (probably closer to 300) 45 Colt loads in the 20-23K psi range. Handloader #337 (current issue) has a great article on which revolvers are capable of handling 23K psi loads. Or better yet 2) Subscribe to www.loaddata.com. There you'll find ALL of the 23K psi 45 Colt loads in said magazines where you can filter to any bullet weight or powder you want, print them out and put them in a binder to keep forever. I have been a subscriber to this sight for over 10 years and wouldn't dream of not renewing my subscription every year.

35W

Issue 275 is about loading for a Ruger Blackhawk, which I think we would expect to have no problem with mid-level loads. Issue 246 was about use of a 280 grain bullet but affords data from which to extrapolate. Hopefully, this latest issue 337 will be more focused on mid-level and representative bullet weights. The reloadammo.com/45cload.htm document provides considerable wealth but requires some faith in its data. I don't see anything there that addresses mid-level loads specifically.

 

[RealGun]

A couple of very simple options for you are 1) Go to the Wolfe Publishing website and buy back issues of Handloader magazines numbers 246, 275 and 337 where you'll find a total of well over two hundred (probably closer to 300) 45 Colt loads in the 20-23K psi range. Handloader #337 (current issue) has a great article on which revolvers are capable of handling 23K psi loads. Or better yet 2) Subscribe to www.loaddata.com. There you'll find ALL of the 23K psi 45 Colt loads in said magazines where you can filter to any bullet weight or powder you want, print them out and put them in a binder to keep forever. I have been a subscriber to this sight for over 10 years and wouldn't dream of not renewing my subscription every year.

35W

Current issue 337 is not available as a separate, non-subscription issue until a "back issue" next month.

 

[25-20 WCF]

Multiple-pressure .45 LC loads from SAAMI just isn’t going to happen. It hasn’t happened for the .45-70 which shares similar multiple-strength firearms. Ditto the .32 H&R Magnum. Ditto the 8x57 and the .250 Savage. The market is simply too small and the liability risks are too great. (BuffaloBore is a small company with limited assets so their risk is lower - but it is not zero.) The industry prefers you to purchase a .454 Casull if you want more than factory .45LC delivers, just like they want you to purchase a .327 Magnum if you want more than the little .32 offers.




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