Safety of tasers?

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Not a single lawsuit against Taser from a death has been won. Wonder why? :rolleyes:

Unexplained in-custody "excited delerium" deaths still occur, but sometimes include the use of Tasers. Would the guy not have died anyways? Yes.

ED is the real culprit of most unexplained deaths from police encounters, yet is still a mystery (really hard to replicate in legal studies). Close behind that is positional asphixiation.

People should start whining about lack of knowledge about ED deaths instead of the PROVEN track record of Taser use.

Justin
 
Air Taser Information Page
HOW DOES AN AIR TASER WORK?


Upon firing, compressed nitrogen projects two AIR TASER probes 15 feet at a speed of 135 feet per second. An electrical signal transmits throughout the region where the probes make contact with the body or clothing. The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. AIR TASER uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The AIR TASER releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape.


HOW CAN THE AIR TASER BE SO EFFECTIVE YET NON-INJURIOUS?


The AIR TASER does not depend upon impact or body penetration to achieve its effect. Its pulsating electrical output interferes with communication between the brain and the muscular system, resulting in loss of control. However, the AIR TASER is non-destructive to nerves, muscles and other body elements. It simply affects them in their natural mode. More importantly, no deaths have ever been directly attributed to the TASER.
WHAT HAS TESTING REVEALED REGARDING THE AIR TASER?

Anesthesiologist and specialist in medical electronics, Dr. Frank Summers, MD of St. Joseph’s Hospital, Orange, California, directed tests of volunteers at St. Joseph’s in 1971 and 1974. Dr. Summers stated, "...We undertook this [volunteer test] in the operating rooms at St. Joseph’s Hospital. We had an assembly of cardiovascular surgeons, cardiologists... we had a real [TASER]. We tested extensively and made movies. The tests were impressive. We monitored all parameters of physiology, including electrocardiographs. The tests did not produce any lethal effects and we found that the background work that had been done did indeed pan out in practice."

DOES THE TASER AFFECT THE HEART OR A CARDIAC PACEMAKER?

The AIR TASER’s output is well below the level established as "safe" by the federal government in approving such devices as the electrified cattle fence. In a medical study of the Model XR 5000Ô electronic stun gun, Dr. Robert Stratbucker of the University of Nebraska Medical Center confirmed that the T-Wave does not interrupt the heartbeat or damage a pacemaker. Any modern pacemaker is designed to withstand electrical defibrillator pulses that are hundreds of times stronger than the AIR TASER’s output. The AIR TASER current of 0.3 joules is well below the 10-50 joule threshold above which cardiac ventricular fibrillation can occur.

ISN’T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?

High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a 25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry day without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source that produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout the body indefinitely. By contrast, the AIR TASER power supply consists of an alkaline 9-Volt battery that is capable of supplying less than three watts of electrical power for a few minutes.

WILL THE TASER CAUSE ELECTROCUTION?

No. The output is metered by the electronics and the electrical energy in each pulse is always the same, regardless of the target condition. The electrical output will not be transferred from one person to another even if they touch. AIR TASER, Inc.’s president has been stunned by an AIR TASER while standing in water to emphasize this point.

WHAT ARE THE AFTEREFFECTS?

A person hit with an AIR TASER will feel dazed for several minutes. The pulsating electrical output causes involuntary muscle contractions and a resulting sense of vertigo. It can momentarily stun or render an attacker unconscious. Yet, the AIR TASER’s low electrical amperage and short duration of pulsating current, ensures a non-lethal charge. Moreover, it does not cause permanent damage or long-term aftereffects to muscles, nerves or other body functions. A January 1987 Annals of Emergency Medicine study reported TASER technology leaves no long term injuries compared with 50% long term injuries for gun shot injuries.

MUST THE PROBES PENETRATE THE BODY TO BE EFFECTIVE?

No. The electrical current will "jump" up to two inches as long as both probes are attached to clothing or skin. At most, only the 3/8-inch needlepoint will penetrate the skin. They have less energy than a spring propelled BB.

WHAT IF THE PROBES MISS?

The AIR TASER can be used in a touch-stun mode. The user is thus provided with a final backup if the probes miss the target. Should the user miss or engage a second attacker, he can touch the unit directly to the target and it will work like a powerful touch-stun device.

WHAT IS THE BEST-SHOT AT MAXIMUM RANGE?

As long as the spread of the probes is at least six inches, the AIR TASER will be extremely effective. To ensure that the spread is greater than six inches, the AIR TASER should be fired at a target several feet away. The optimum shot is from seven to ten feet away from the target to achieve maximum effect. At seven to ten feet away - the spread of the probes will be approximately 16 inches, ensuring that the target receives the most efficient T-Wave flow.

DOES TEMPERATURE HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE AIR TASER?


No. The AIR TASER utilizes compressed nitrogen (an inert gas). The AIR TASER compressed air capsules have successfully held their charges at temperatures of minus 20º F and up to 160º F. Moreover, altitude will not adversely effect the firing of an AIR TASER. In addition, the temperature will not effect the T-Wave. However, as with any product containing polycarbonates and other thermoplastics, the AIR TASER and Air Cartridges should never be left in direct sunlight.
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http://defensefromterror.com
 
I've had my say on this before, but I'll give it another go 'round.

I'm all for officer safety, and use of whatever force is necessary to effect an arrest. I still see, though, things like Tasers and OC used in situations where there is no PC for arrest, or threat to officer safety. This incident is just that. The officers ask for the student's ID, and he says, "No, I don't have to show you that."

First, why are they asking for his ID? To make sure that he actually is a student, and has a right to be in the library, evidently. The way I see it, he can either prove his right to stay in the library, or leave. He says, "I'm leaving."

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt"Stand up!"

"No, no, I said I was leaving..." Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt"Stand up!"

"I said I was..."Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt"Stand up!"

Throughout the entire incident, the most he could be charged with is... what? Illegal trespass? Is that worth escalating the situation into a possible riot? Is that worth violating this student's rights (rude and hard-headed as he may be)?

This reminds me of the incident where the cop stopped a female driver for something silly like a tail light out, and ended up Tasing the woman for the horrific crime of not putting her cellphone down while he asked for her license. Sure, Tasers and the like have their uses. Unfortunately, these days, they're used more and more because officers get lazy, they buy into that whole "I'm a saviour of mankind and my wishes must be obeyed" mentality, and their will must be enforced, whether that will is lawful or not.
 
Well because of assaults and a rape or two on that campus, it became school policy that after a certain time students in the library must have their student ID and present it when asked. This one "patron" in particular felt he didn't have to follow school rules for whatever reason, AND refused to leave when asked. Sounds like trespassing easily, Burglary if one can show intent to commit any crime. Really wouldn't be hard to have shown an ID or left to go get it when asked. The idiot was definitely in the wrong.

Don't like the schools rules, do go there. Blaming the officers for enforcing the rules in the least dangerous way isn't productive (yes, OC easily cross contaminates, and we know some don't like to see how cops fight a person resisting arrest :rolleyes: )

I say leave it to a judge and jury to decide this. We were not there and not privy to all the FACTS to the case. I think about thirty requests to stand up to walk outside was about 28 times too many. Glad it was all caught on tape to exhonorate the officers.

Justin
 
Well because of assaults and a rape or two on that campus, it became school policy that after a certain time students in the library must have their student ID and present it when asked. This one "patron" in particular felt he didn't have to follow school rules for whatever reason, AND refused to leave when asked. Sounds like trespassing easily, Burglary if one can show intent to commit any crime. Really wouldn't be hard to have shown an ID or left to go get it when asked. The idiot was definitely in the wrong.

Don't like the schools rules, do go there. Blaming the officers for enforcing the rules in the least dangerous way isn't productive (yes, OC easily cross contaminates, and we know some don't like to see how cops fight a person resisting arrest )

I say leave it to a judge and jury to decide this. We were not there and not privy to all the FACTS to the case. I think about thirty requests to stand up to walk outside was about 28 times too many. Glad it was all caught on tape to exhonorate the officers.

Justin
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I don't have a problem with officers enforcing the rules, but I do have a problem with an officer assulting a student with a taser. Teachers dont taze high schoolers for talking out loud in class, judges don't taze lawyers when they get out of line. Under your logic, if anyone is at school they can be commiting burglary whenever the administration decides that they are. I would've understood chastisement from a teacher or administrator, but a taser? I call that aggrivated assault. That officer should've lost his job because of that.
 
IT seems that the majority of taser incidents we see in the news are ones where the officers judgement and using the taser is highly questionable. I really think that the officers should learn to excercise a little more restraint. I think the video of the student in the library is a good example.

Everyone gets the impression that the officers do not wish to carry him. If he is just sitting there and playing dead weight does not warrant a tasering in my opinion.

Or the incident where a young man is tasered simply because he wore a hat to a town hall meeting and did not take it off. Yes I understand he said he would not leave but it is simply because he was asked to leave when he did not anything wrong.
 
Let's not ignore the psychological effects of repeated shocks from a taser.
I think it would be easy to argue that repeated shocks could cause PTSD,
especially when the reason for using it in the first place was less than
justified. So, "safety" of tasers would remain in question for an individual.

Again, if while in uniform I had shot an [insert middle easterner here] with
one of these and kept shocking him over and over while asking him some
questions, it would be considered torture --especially if there was video of
it on the nightly news. There would be all sorts of handwringing about it.
But, do it to a US citizen and it's a-ok, no need for an investigation because
it was used according to department policy while in the course of duty (in
this case doing a random security sweep and demanding ID --the very thing
the Founding Fathers would have been leery about).

This whole thing at the UCLA library, a public university, is very interesting
for a number of reasons. We have a college environment where traditionally
students are treated with kid gloves (rightly or wrongly is immaterial since
this has been typical for decades). We have a student of Middle Eastern
descent. We have absolutely no report of a crime in progress --just a
random security sweep of a building, not a traffic checkpoint where the
usual "we're looking for drunks" excuse is now legal in today's environment.
BTW, give it some time and it will be "we're looking for gunowners."

It feels like a test case to see how the public would react. I can not imagine
this same thing taking place at an expensive elite private university. Yeah,
some Yale cops are going to walk up to the iron door of the Tomb and say
"Random secuirty check, we need to come in right now and check everyone's
IDs." The door would remain closed and they'd be told to call the frat's lawyer.
The cops, knowing where their authority and more importantly their paycheck
and pension comes from, wouldn't have approached the building in the first
place. They're the S and they know who they're E is. ;)

So, yes, I'd have to agree that tasers are completely safe to use when they're
used on the right class of people :rolleyes: :barf:
 
Tasers to Enforce Rules?

The idiot was definitely in the wrong.

Don't like the schools rules, do go there. Blaming the officers for enforcing the rules in the least dangerous way isn't productive
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You don't use Tasers to enforce rules. You use Tasers to bring a combative arrestee under control. This arrestee was not combative. There is no dispute that the only resistance he offered was passive - he would not stand up.

They tased him repeatedly in handcuffs for lying on the ground.

Please address the issue if you are going to respond, unless, of course, your real opinion is that cops can and should apply a Taser to anybody violating "rules."
 
Malum, forget it. No one is going to bite. They're in the socialist pond
already.

"We were the first to assert that the more complicated the forms assumed by civilization, the more restricted the freedom of the individual must become." - BENITO MUSSOLINI
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"The statesman who should attempt to direct private people in what manner they ought to employ their capitals, would not only load himself with a most necessary attention, but assume an authority which could safely be trusted, not only to no single person, but to no council or senate whatever, and which would nowhere be so dangerous as in the hands of a man who had folly and presumption enough to fancy himself fit to exercise it." (Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, 1776)
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In a country where the sole employer is the State, opposition means death by slow starvation. The old principle: who does not work does not eat, has been replaced by a new one: who does not obey shall not eat. --Leon Trotsky
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I guess we're not quite there yet. Prior to starvation, we have non-lethal
means to force compliance.
 
I would recommend you guys stop beating the proverbial dead horse. Of the 15 threads this last month on the subject all of your points have been repeatedly stated. The horse is now nothing more than a smelly, red stain on the ground...
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But one of the main issues here is that no matter how outrageously over-the-line any police officer seems to step, there are those that will write things like, "Yeah, but it was only a Taser", or "It was just a little pepper spray"...

When did "I may disagree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it" become "Toe the line or get punished for being a dissenter"?
 
Medula:

Then you've never seen the videos that I refer to in my posts?

This kid had already said he would leave the building rather than show his ID. That option was taken off the table by the cops. He was tasered, for not showing his ID. He was handcuffed, then he was tasered for not standing up while handcuffed.

What kind of "lawful order" is "Stand up, or you'll be Tasered!" ?


In the other case I wrote about, a woman was stopped for having a tail light out. SHe was tasered for not hanging up her cell phone on command.

What kind of "lawful order" is "Hang up your cell phone or you'll be tasered!"?
 
I think its time for tasers to be shelved also.

Across the country they are being abused by police officers using them because they lose their temper, or for no legit reason.

Ive heard from a lawyer that it could be considered serious bodily injury tasering someone.

I dont care who it is, cop or anyone, if Im not beaking the law and one is trying to taser for no legit reason, Im going to go BANG!!
 
Regarding the UCLA taser incident, it would seem that the officer using the taser WAS in compliance with the policy. If there's blame to be assigned, it's at the executive level and not against the individual officer.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20061122-0658-ca-studentstunned.html
UCLA's police rules, however, allow officers to use Tasers on passive resisters as "a pain compliance technique," Assistant Chief Jeff Young said last week.
 
Keep reading Pravda. Sooner or later they'll tell the truth.. Someday..

The video's you are referring to are heavily edited.

Stop drinking the coolaid. Resist the mind-control power of the media. A lawful order is a lawful order. It doesn't matter if its an order to spit out the gum in your mouth, you get to comply or you suffer the consequences.
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Try attacking my argument, instead of making vailed accusations that I'm a Communist. How 'bout that, eh? How 'bout answering my questions, while you're at it?

As it is, your post is nothing more than spewed bile.
 
Medula Oblangata!

Lawful orders are lawful orders, like it or not. You don't have the authority or discretion to decide to disobey. You will comply or you will go to jail. Period, by whatever means necessary to affect arrest.
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If I recall correctly, you are a police officer (if I don't recall correctly, then I apologize). I was a police officer for 12 years.

From one LEO to an ex-LEO, please answer the next question honestly. I think the Iranian college student should have gone to jail for criminal trespass (your comply or go to jail). But that is not the question. My question to you is this:

Do you think it appropriate to apply a Taser in drive mode to the rear end of a guy lying on the ground in handcuffs offering nothing but passive resistance, repeatedly, to attempt to get him to stand up and walk under his own power?

Please focus on that question.

This is not about Tasering combative people (A-OK with me :) ). This is not about complying with an order to leave or going to jail (again, ok with me). This is not even about whether the Iranian college kid was a smart ass troublemaker that most of us would like to Taser rather than hear his asinine opinions (after watching the video, I would probably want to Taser him).

But I have dragged people in handcuffs, and, probably, so have you. It is not that big of a deal, and, in the end, they HAD to drag this guy anyway.

SO - one issue. Taser handcuffed person on the ground posing no threat. Yes or no?
 
Can you imagine if this kinda of punishment was used for civil disobedience in the 'civil rights' movement? I can just see the result of some lil hippies protecting a tree. Or some blacks trying to sit somewhere they were not supposed to. They would not have been beaten or arrested in what would cause public outcry and get change. No they would have been tased quietly and removed from the scene with no laws or rules changing because tasing would have silenced the dissenters or 'radicals' using non violent protests without police being seen as brutal. Mahatma Gandhi would have simply been tased and arrested..his non violent protests amounting to nothing.
Tasers have essentialy removed one of the last barriers to absolute tyranny, that an officer does not need to be seen as being brutal to punish someone for even the most minor of offenses.
Funny that the very populations (hippies etc) and ideologies protected in the civil rights era are the ones now implementing thier socialist tyranny where even non violent protest requires government permission (permits etc) and non compliance of any sort can be 'safely' and 'humanely' tasered into compliance.
 
Just to be clear, MO, any order from a LEO is a lawful order and must be obeyed?

Biker
 
I very well may have hit him with the charge until he complied with the order. Were I to bend over to pick him up there is the possibility that we would end up in a physical contest. I'm not willing to chance that. Sorry, thats just the way it is. Passive resistance is still resisting...
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Have you watched the video? They do pick him up - more than once. At the end they have to carry him anyway. And, just for context, there is no contention by anyone (even the police) that this guy was actually fighting while in handcuffs. He just went limp.

Alright. I asked for your honest answer, focused on the specific question, and you gave it.

;)

I guess it is no secret that I find this behavior appalling, regardless of the physical safety of the Taser.

I still have to ask what was the point when they have to carry him out at the end.

I also wonder if active duty LEOs ever question whether Tasering could cause a passively resisting subject to actively resist? If I chose to passively resist (not likely), it sure would provoke me.

I might, however, not quickly hang up my cell phone . . . ZAP! Aaaargh! :eek:
 
Tasers are not "non-lethal" force, they are "Less than lethal" force. They can still kill someone easily if given the right pre-existing conditions, heart trouble for example or existing conditions, such as being under the effects of methamphetamines when tasered.

I think cops should be issued Tasers. I also think that the policies governing the actual use of tasers should be pretty close to those authorizing deadly force. Tasers are a good tool... say to take down an old crazy lady waving a knife. If she charges an officer, without tasers they need to close the distance before taking her down with a baton or even OC spray... so they would probably shoot her if she moved towards one of the officers. With Tasers they can put someone down 30 feet away. They aren't tools to assist with arrest, they are tools to help PREVENT officers shooting perps. Any use of a Taser should be investigated just as a use of a firearm would be... administrative leave, full inquiry and forwarded to the DA if there is any doubt... whatever they do. If all that happens, then I'm fine with it. They can still kill someone so they can't be used with impunity.
 
Medula Oblongata

I am not saying they are the quickest way to change anything. Or that it is very effective, though sympathy can be somewhat effective in democracy. My point is that government want people to believe it is effective. That government and especialy the police benefit from people believing thier only avenues for change are socialy acceptable means. You advocating that only use of force ever changes anything is quite contrary to what an officer of the law should be teaching. While it might be useful in allowing you more leeway in policy, it also will promote organized armed resistance instead of hippies putting flowers in your guns.
Spraying with fire hoses, beatings, scattering with rubber rounds are all tactics that gain sympathy for the disobedient not engaged in violence. Tasing them does not. When people feel gaining sympathy from non violent disobedience is not possible or effective it will escalate. Yes the militant Black Panthers, and Malcom X and other violent armed individuals did more for their cause than Martin Luther King ever did (even though they are also directly linked to why black neighborhoods are dangerous and full of criminal gangs as well) but our government focuses on him as the cause for change in order to encourage future disobedience to be done his way. A way that is easy to control and contain.
 
They can still kill someone easily if given the right pre-existing conditions, heart trouble for example or existing conditions, such as being under the effects of methamphetamines when tasered.
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Your source for this? AFAIK, a Taser has never been conclusively proven to have killed anyone. :scrutiny:
 
Regarding the UCLA taser incident, it would seem that the officer using the taser WAS in compliance with the policy. If there's blame to be assigned, it's at the executive level and not against the individual officer.
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Its not even that low on the totem pole. We elect people to protect us as citizens from police misconduct and abuse. If there is misconduct and abuse going on why do we let our elected officials off the hooks so easily????

If a few dozen politicians got booted out of office over police misconduct and abuse of power issues by offended citizens you can bet the problem would get a lot of attention from the powers that be and you would not see this kind of thing happening.
 
I also have not the authority to decide to obey or disobey.
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Where did that come from? No disrespect intended. If you are alive and have a conscience you have that authority. At least in your own eyes... besides that, what really matters? What someone else tells you?

And to address what ilbob said... why don't we have those ABSCAM *spelling may be wrong* investigations going on all the time? Because darn near every politico would fall for them eventually.. IMO.. have they even run a major sting targeting politicians since? An orgainzed law enforcement effort into bribery and racketerring in our Congress and Senate would probably result in 50% of them being kicked out in a month. My personal opinions only.
 
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