Saiga 12 SBS

[brobin10]

disclaimer: i will be mentioning red jacket firearms in this post. i know the show is ridiculous but i still find myself watching it when it does come on :banghead:

anyways...i became really interested in the saiga 12 SBS that will hayden was using in last weeks episode....looks like he got the idea from tromix

how possible is it to buy a normal saiga 12 (possibly izhmash) and slowly do the conversion to SBS yourself? i guess if i went with izhmash i would have to worry about maintaing 10 or less foreign made parts just like i do on my arsenal sgl 21/61

i know i would have to get it registered SBS then get the barrel chopped and threaded but as far as the rest of the receiver upgrades....is this even possible without the work from RJ or tromix??

thanks guys!

 

[JustinJ]

"how possible is it to buy a normal saiga 12 (possibly izhmash) and slowly do the conversion to SBS yourself?"

All Saigas are Izhmash. A converted saiga from Red Jacket, Tromix or any other shop started out as a regular imported sporter model Saiga made by Izhmash. 922r is fairly easy to accomplish given the plethora of available american made parts. The hardest part will be the trigger job but its straight forward and not at all difficult. There is tons of info out there including step by step guides with pictures. Moving the trigger forward and installing a pistol grip is pretty much the same for all Saigas, .223, .7.62x39, .308, 12 gauge, etc. There is also an adapter one can install that provides a pistol grip behind the imported trigger location but it has poor ergonomics, ecspecially w/ the 12.

 

[Quiet]

AFAIK...
Red Jacket started out doing Saiga-12 conversions, they noticed Tromix had a long waiting list, so they copied what Tromix was doing and jumped into the market to pick-up on those who did not want to wait for a Tromix build.

 

[brobin10]

thanks for the info guys...keep the info coming!

any certain sites people use for parts?

ive found carolina shooter supply and mississippi auto arms

any experience with those?

 

[MasterSergeantA]

Mississippi Auto Arms are great folks. They probably have one of the best inventories of Saiga parts you will find.

I am in the process of doing what you describe except that I had Tony Rumore (Tromix) do the trigger and stock conversion to get me started. (I was downrange making scads of money, so it seemed like a good idea. Tony does great work but he has a long waiting list. I shipped my S12 off to him while home on I&I and it was waiting for me when I came home the next time.)

Cadiz Gun Works also does SBS and AOW builds. http://www.cadizgunworks.com/ They have gotten good reviews on the Saiga 12 forum. http://forum.saiga-12.com/

I will cut and re-thread the barrel one of these days after I get my Form 1 approved.

 

[Girodin]

The hardest part will be the trigger job but its straight forward and not at all difficult. There is tons of info out there including step by step guides with pictures. Moving the trigger forward and installing a pistol grip is pretty much the same for all Saigas, .223, .7.62x39, .308, 12 gauge, etc. There is also an adapter one can install that provides a pistol grip behind the imported trigger location but it has poor ergonomics, ecspecially w/ the 12.

Umm the hardest part of a SBS conversion is reworking the gas system to make it actually work reliably. A pistol grip conversion is rather easy. A decent SBS job is well beyond what most people could handle.


I had been planing to do a S12 conversion and contacted some builders to do it. However, now I think I will do a MKA 1919. It seems to be much easier and less costly. The MKA 1919 also offers some notable advantages over the S12 (I have multiple S12s and love them btw). The aftermarket for the 1919 continues to grow. Dollar for dollar I feel like the 1919 would be the better buy.

 

[razorback2003]

Title II firearms do not have to be 922R compliant like regular firearms. You can have a SBS Saiga and not have to keep up with the number of American or foreign parts.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

Actually, Title II firearms do have to meet 922r compliance. That is one reason that Tony Rumore makes 922r compliant parts for the Saiga and MKA SBSs he builds.

 

[brobin10]

good info on the SBS conversion....i wasnt aware of that

also i have seen both things about title II firearms....do they need to maintain 922r compliance or not? i saw some places that NFA trumps the 1989 import restrictions....i suppose it doesnt matter that much since there are so many USA made parts available

any clarification?

 

[JustinJ]

Umm the hardest part of a SBS conversion is reworking the gas system to make it actually work reliably. A pistol grip conversion is rather easy. A decent SBS job is well beyond what most people could handle.

At what length does it become an issue? Even with bird shot my 18" saiga 12 cycles in the low gas settings. Either way increasing gas isn't that hard either. One needs little more than a punch and file set as i understand it.

922r is required with our without an SBR. There is an ATF letter floating around some where confirming it. There is another that some have misinterpeted to mean SBRs are not required to meet it but they in fact are.

 

[brobin10]

makes sense...thanks justinj

 

[MasterSergeantA]

ATF policy on the NFA and 922r seems to fluctuate, as do many of their 'opinions'. Current feeling is that it is better to get the parts and put them in than have to worry about wherther it is...or isn't (this week)...legal.

YMMV

 

[Girodin]

One needs little more than a punch and file set as i understand it.

I would respectfully submit that your understanding of it is limited. Building one properly is much more than just making the holes bigger.

At what length does it become an issue?

Conventional wisdom is that each gun is a truth unto its self. Some barely work, or don't work at 19". You may be able to go to 12" if you only want to shoot highbrass loads.

Later i'll dig up some more info.