Saiga First Impressions

[Zack]

Now what about using surplus magazines, does that give us -3 parts? Because my gun has tapco g2 trigger, us made stock us made pistol grip, and if I add a surplus mag(-3) parts will that effect when I am shooting??????

 

[nalioth]

All that matters is that you have 10 or less foreign parts in your rifle.

Adding a magazine just adds 3 more parts to the mix. If those 3 parts bring your total foreign parts up to 10, you're good. If it takes that count past 10, you're in violation.

 

[Zack]

Wait a min I am lost

My rifle is 992(r) compliant right now no magazines in place. Trigger group, Us stock Us grip(+5 = 10) you are saying that if I insert a surplus magazine(not made in the USA) it brings me in violation? so I would need to add 3 more parts?

SO I would need to have 7 US made parts in my gun to use surplus mags?

 

[nalioth]

Your AK has 12 countable parts in it without a magazine.

You have 5 US parts in it, giving you a surplus of US parts as far as the 922r is concerned.

Inserting a foreign magazine brings you to 15 countable parts, and 10 foreign parts.

Please read the law I posted. It's pretty cut and dried.

 

[Zack]

I thought I had 15 countable parts in it? I did the little chart on gun wiki before. 15 - 5 = 10? You now have me confussed....

Just tell me please, am I in the law requirements? or not? with a surplus magazine in?(tapco g2, us stock us pistol grip)
.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

UNchecking muzzle(default checked on? I do not have a threaded barrel)/trigger system, stock.grip = 10 = legal

 

[rangerruck]

well, lessee;
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Magazine followers
(20) Magazine floorplates

to me, a standard saiga does not have the following parts; number 3 and number 5. and really you would have to say part 8 and 9 are one part. so that leaves--- 14 parts from the list; not including 18 to 20. Not sure where Nalioth is getting 12- maybe I need some help!!!
so if you do not use a foreign made mag, you need to replace just 4 parts. if they are counting 8 and 9 as two diff parts, then you need to add just 5 parts.
If using a foreign made typical eurotrash/ruskie/asian mag, you need to replace 8 parts.
that's right, they count the mag as part of the rifle, as soon as you put it inside of it.
the easiest and proly cheapest to replace, are parts 10 thru 17.
Then you are fine for a foreign hi cap mag.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Magazine followers
(20) Magazine floorplates

to me, a standard saiga does not have the following parts; number 3 and number 5. and really you would have to say part 8 and 9 are one part. so that leaves--- 14 parts from the list; not including 18 to 20. Not sure where Nalioth is getting 12- maybe I need some help!!!
so if you do not use a foreign made mag, you need to replace just 4 parts. if they are counting 8 and 9 as two diff parts, then you need to add just 5 parts.
If using a foreign made typical eurotrash/ruskie/asian mag, you need to replace 8 parts.
that's right, they count the mag as part of the rifle, as soon as you put it inside of it.
the easiest and proly cheapest to replace, are parts 10 thru 17.
Then you are fine for a foreign hi cap mag.

Your numbers are totally wrong....they don't even make sense....You're counting parts that the gun does not even have, such as trigger housing, barrel extensions, sears, etc....

I have no idea what's so confusing about 922r...it's described very specifically and clear cut...these threads actually make me mad I'm sorry

Converted Saiga has:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(9) Gas pistons
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards

That's 12 parts

if the usual 5 of them (FCG, pistol grip, and stock) are US made

That's 7 foreign parts

You are allowed to have up to 10 foreign parts in the gun

The remaining 3 - magazine body, floor plate, and follower can therefore be from anywhere - USA, Romania, China, Mars

 

[nalioth]

I thought I had 15 countable parts in it? I did the little chart on gun wiki before. 15 - 5 = 10? You now have me confussed....

Just tell me please, am I in the law requirements? or not? with a surplus magazine in?(tapco g2, us stock us pistol grip)

Can a cop give you a speeding ticket if you're sitting on a park bench? No, because you have to be operating a motor vehicle.

How can you count the magazine parts as part of the gun, if the magazine isn't inserted in to the gun?

Not sure where Nalioth is getting 12- maybe I need some help!!!

His description indicates a converted Saiga or other AK w/o a muzzle device.

You guys are making this much more difficult than it is.

 

[Mauserguy]

just an update here. I made up some dummy rounds out of some old brass and tried cycleing them from various magazines. The Saiga magazine cycled them flawlessly. Holding a ten round AK magazine in place the bolt will strip the rounds out of the magazine and slam them into the breach face causing a nasty jam. I guess my Saiga isn't one that will feed with standard magazines...

By the way, the law doesn't say that a rifle can't accept common military magazines to be unsporting, that was just an interpretation issued by the ATF in 1989. Basically it was the ATF's desire twenty-one years ago, not actual code. Whether that is true and enforced today, I don't know. I can't find anything but conjecture on the subject. It's a grey area for sure.
Mauserguy

 

[rangerruck]

no... I said for a standard saiga, no conversion.
1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Magazine followers
(20) Magazine floorplates

to me, a standard saiga does not have the following parts; number 3 and number 5. and really you would have to say part 8 and 9 are one part. so that leaves--- 14 parts from the list; not including 18 to 20. Not sure where Nalioth is getting 12- maybe I need some help!!!
so if you do not use a foreign made mag, you need to replace just 4 parts. if they are counting 8 and 9 as two diff parts, then you need to add just 5 parts.
If using a foreign made typical eurotrash/ruskie/asian mag, you need to replace 8 parts.
that's right, they count the mag as part of the rifle, as soon as you put it inside of it.
the easiest and proly cheapest to replace, are parts 10 thru 17.
Then you are fine for a foreign hi cap mag.

I have written above that the saiga does not have part 3, 5, then part 8 or 9,
since they are combined as one part, and then parts 18 to 20. Oops! throw in part 16 as well. which would leave 13 parts from the list above, make it 14 if you actually have to split up parts 8 and 9 as two parts. Where am I wrong here? Remember this is for a standard saiga as it is imported.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

to me, a standard saiga does not have the following parts; number 3 and number 5. and really you would have to say part 8 and 9 are one part. so that leaves--- 14 parts from the list; not including 18 to 20. Not sure where Nalioth is getting 12- maybe I need some help!!!
so if you do not use a foreign made mag, you need to replace just 4 parts. if they are counting 8 and 9 as two diff parts, then you need to add just 5 parts.
If using a foreign made typical eurotrash/ruskie/asian mag, you need to replace 8 parts.
that's right, they count the mag as part of the rifle, as soon as you put it inside of it.
the easiest and proly cheapest to replace, are parts 10 thru 17.
Then you are fine for a foreign hi cap mag.

I have written above that the saiga does not have part 3, 5, then part 8 or 9,
since they are combined as one part, and then parts 18 to 20. Oops! throw in part 16 as well. which would leave 13 parts from the list above, make it 14 if you actually have to split up parts 8 and 9 as two parts. Where am I wrong here? Remember this is for a standard saiga as it is imported.

The standard imported unconfigured Saiga has 14parts

When you convert it and add a pistol grip the total parts count goes up to 15

Without a magazine in the gun, the converted gun has 12 parts

Without a magazine in the gun, an unconverted gun has 11 parts

Nalioth is talking about a converted gun when he says 12

/facepalm

 

[SSN Vet]

Just as a quick plug for the single hook G2 trigger group...

I recently borrowed a friends trigger pull weight tester (an older RCBS "fish scale" type) and couldn't resist testing every guy I own.

My converted Saiga breaks at 5 lbs., has zero take up and has some creep, which is fairly smooth. Of the eight long guns I own, only my Savage Accu-trigger is better.

I'm going to lightly stone the hammer and sear surfaces with a hard Arkansas one of these days and it should smooth out even more.

 

[zhyla]

He pretty clearly said he does not want to use a bullet button and wants to keep the gun in a configuration that it wont be required.

I 2nd your suggestion to do the conversion and add a MonsterMan grip. They're really not as inconvenient as you'd think. If you combine it with a black synthetic stock it matches really well.

 

[nalioth]

The standard imported unconfigured Saiga has 14parts

When you convert it and add a pistol grip the total parts count goes up to 15

Without a magazine in the gun, the converted gun has 12 parts

Without a magazine in the gun, an unconverted gun has 11 parts

Just don't forget to subtract 1 if you have a Saiga shotgun (the revenuers state they have 13 parts as imported).

Nalioth is talking about a converted gun when he says 12

So I am