Sako S20 Hunter 6.5 PRC

[troy fairweather]

How you like the thumb hole, I've never like the looks but the modern European ones I kinda like. I need to handle one and see if they fit me. Kinda sucks these are so chunky, I'm used to heavy mausers but I think a 98 24" bbl rifle with a synthetic stock may way less. I wonder how the guys in Europe and great Britain like the weight , they like there big scopes. Probably be over 10lb the way they run there's.

Looks to shoot good, I forget did you try h-1000.

 

[rayatphonix]

I really need to stop reading this thread. If my wife was a moderator, this would be closed.

 

[Nature Boy]

I really need to stop reading this thread. If my wife was a moderator, this would be closed.

Hilarious!

 

[H&Hhunter]

How you like the thumb hole, I've never like the looks but the modern European ones I kinda like. I need to handle one and see if they fit me. Kinda sucks these are so chunky, I'm used to heavy mausers but I think a 98 24" bbl rifle with a synthetic stock may way less. I wonder how the guys in Europe and great Britain like the weight , they like there big scopes. Probably be over 10lb the way they run there's.

Looks to shoot good, I forget did you try h-1000.

The main reason I haven’t snagged an S-20 is that I’m adversely affected by thumb hole stocks. I just don’t like the way they look. The precision style stock I like the looks of but the weight is getting to a point on that version that I know I probably won’t take it out hunting. When the S20 first came out I was all fired up. The things I’ve mention have simmered me down quite a bit.

 

[MCMXI]

How you like the thumb hole

As you know I have Accuracy International AW, AWMs and AXMC with the AWs having thumb hole stocks so I definitely like them. I will say though that it's not about the thumb hole, it's that I like a stock that puts my wrist in a natural position for prone, seated or standing and no "classic" stock does that for me. It's one of the reasons why I find ARs comfortable to shoot from any position.

The main reason I haven’t snagged an S-20 is that I’m adversely affected by thumb hole stocks. I just don’t like the way they look. The precision style stock I like the looks of but the weight is getting to a point on that version that I know I probably won’t take it out hunting. When the S20 first came out I was all fired up. The things I’ve mention have simmered me down quite a bit.

I'll take function over looks any day of the week, but I get your point. I'm not thrilled by the look of the thumb hole stock either and prefer the look of the precision stock, but once you handle and shoot the S20, and realize how well executed it is whether it's bolt lift, the smoothness of the action, the trigger, feeding, ejection, magazine release and accuracy/precision the appearance starts to become less and less of an issue.

As for weight, do I wish that the Hunter S20 was no more than 7lb out of the box ... sure! It's not too hard to figure out the actual weights of the various S20 models, and on the bright side, the power to weight ratio is higher for the 6.5 PRC, 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag. Also, when I ran the configurator for the .300 Win Mag, it reports a 1:10 twist but 1:11 for .308 Win and .30-06 Sprg. I wonder if that's an error on Sako's part.

 

[MCMXI]

Like many here I've owned and shot a lot of rifles in my time and this is probably the best executed factory rifle I've ever encountered. For me it's light years ahead of anything from Bergara and similar, and as good as the Mauser M18 is, which is arguably a more sensible purchase, the S20 does offer some tangible benefits. The adjustable cheek piece for example, a better trigger, a better stock, a better magazine and magazine release, threaded muzzle, adjustability and adaptability etc. I don't see myself letting this one go, and in fact there's a good chance of more in the future, along with a two-stage trigger.

 

[H&Hhunter]

As you know I have Accuracy International AW, AWMs and AXMC with the AWs having thumb hole stocks so I definitely like them. I will say though that it's not about the thumb hole, it's that I like a stock that puts my wrist in a natural position for prone, seated or standing and no "classic" stock does that for me. It's one of the reasons why I find ARs comfortable to shoot from any position.



I'll take function over looks any day of the week, but I get your point. I'm not thrilled by the look of the thumb hole stock either and prefer the look of the precision stock, but once you handle and shoot the S20, and realize how well executed it is whether it's bolt lift, the smoothness of the action, the trigger, feeding, ejection, magazine release and accuracy/precision the look issue starts to become less and less of an issue.

As for weight, do I wish that the Hunter S20 was no more than 7lb out of the box ... sure! It's not too hard to figure out the actual weights of the various S20 models, and on the bright side, the power to weight ratio is higher for the 6.5 PRC, 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag. Also, when I ran the configurator for the .300 Win Mag, it reports a 1:10 twist but 1:11 for .308 Win and .30-06 Sprg. I wonder if that's an error on Sako's part.

I noticed the twist rate thing too..

I get up to Kalispell, Missoula and Bozeman every now and then. If one of those is near your domicile maybe we can meet up and do a bit of shooting?

 

[MCMXI]

I get up to Kalispell, Missoula and Bozeman every now and then. If one of those is near your domicile maybe we can meet up and do a bit of shooting?

That would be awesome! I'm a few miles west of Kalispell and have steel targets all over the place, and good coffee.

I found out this morning that the Redding dies probably won't ship until May! I have a 2-die Hornady 6.5 PRC set so will have to make do with those for now.

 

[LoonWulf]

I got to thinking about it.....where IS the weight on the gun? If most of it is in the modular stock, you could have a ultralight stock made for those time a reduction in weight was desired. If its in the action....well lighter barrel contour would help, dosent look like much else to be done tho.

 

[MCMXI]

@LoonWulf, I need to figure out how to take this rifle apart so this weekend or later today I'll strip it down and weigh the various parts. I bet that 75% of the weight is the barrel and action.

Following on from @H&Hhunter and his comment about the look of the Hunter stock, I think that for me the stock would be more aesthetically appealing if the two "struts" that connect the butt to the pistol grip were thicker. Thickening up the top strut improves the appearance a little ... just my opinion so no flames please.

 

[troy fairweather]

I'd agree the weight in the action and barrel. The action looks heavy to me.

 

[LoonWulf]

It does look like a pretty beefy action.

I actually like the way the hunter stock looks, and id bet id like the way it feels too.

 

[Bacon buster]

I handled the s20 hunter at a local dealer and it was indeed a nicely finished rifle. Glad to see you got some awesome results with yours. It wasn’t love at first sight but seeing your review definitely moved it up a notch on my list of things I want. Nicely done

 

[MCMXI]

I actually like the way the hunter stock looks, and id bet id like the way it feels too.

The stock feels awesome to me and that action is fantastic.

I handled the s20 hunter at a local dealer and it was indeed a nicely finished rifle. Glad to see you got some awesome results with yours. It wasn’t love at first sight but seeing your review definitely moved it up a notch on my list of things I want. Nicely done

Thanks. It's not over yet though. I plan to do and show a lot more but I've been waiting on some parts for my Kimber custom 6.5 PRC so I can do an honest head to head. I'm going to shoot at 100 yards and 500 yards with both ASAP alternating between the two to see if one is significantly better than the other. They both shoot 147gr ELD Match very well so that's what I'll use. Probably a couple of shots to check zero from a clean bore, then two 5-shot groups at 100 followed by one 5-shot group at 500 yards for each.

 

[H&Hhunter]

In a moment of self reflection, I’ll mention that I shoot a Steyr scout. Which is a rifle that is so ugly it could run a maggot off of a gut pile. And it’s one of the most functional general purpose field rifles ever built. So I’ve learned to love its ugly, Teutonic lines.

I’m sure that I could get over the looks of that hunter model real quick after shooting it for a bit.

 

[MCMXI]

I took the S20 apart and weighed the major components. I tried to dismantle the butt stock but the two sides didn't want to separate after I removed a lot of screws. I didn't want to break it so I put it back together and weighed it as one piece.

I was off a bit with my estimate of the barreled action's overall contribution to the weight which is about 52.5% of the total weight of the rifle.

 

[MCMXI]

I had to laugh a bit at what I found inside the butt stock. The QD cups on either side have washer spacers under them, and not nice fitting intentional washers but more like ooops, the QD cup is slightly recessed relative to the plastic so we'd better add a shim and this is what we have on hand. If you've ever installed a QD cup in a stock (I've done four or five) you'll know that the cup has to be slightly proud of the stock or else the swivel can dig into and damage the stock.

Overall though it's a very well engineered system. In typical Tikka/Sako fashion they provide screws to plug up the hole if you remove the sling swivel studs, which I did. In addition, all of the QD cup screws and sling swivel studs thread into the aluminum chassis. The hardware appears to be high quality too with no soft screw heads or threads.

 

[LoonWulf]

So unless theres mounting issues I THINK you could theoretically shave the weight rather a lot with a light weight traditional stock should one want....

 

[MCMXI]

So unless theres mounting issues I THINK you could theoretically shave the weight rather a lot with a light weight traditional stock should one want....

Looking at the table above, the chassis, forend and butt stock are 49.4oz or 3lb 1.4oz. A light short action stock is in the 24oz to 30oz range so I don't think there's a lot of wiggle room here given that the S20 is a long action. The barreled action is heavy and it would be a challenge to make a stock that's appreciably lighter ... maybe 8oz lighter but not much more than that.

 

[LoonWulf]

True, and 1/2 a lb may not be worth the effort or extra cost of a second complete stock. But it might also be a nice bonus for someone wanting a more traditional open grip stock.

 

[MCMXI]

So I mentioned that I want to make a fair comparison between the S20 and custom Kimber. I've had a 6.5 PRC go gauge for a few years but recently ordered a no-go gauge from PT&G which arrived this weekend. I disassembled the Sako bolt and removed the plunger ejector and put the go-gage in the chamber and the bolt closed with a hint of resistance. The bolt wouldn't even try to close on the no-go gauge so Sako nailed it with this barrel. Next up was the Kimber with barrel #1 that Proof had timed and chambered for me. Since the ejector is a spring loaded blade at the rear of the receiver it's really easy/fast to use go/no-go gauges. The bolt closed easily on the go gage and could almost close on the no-go gage, and in fact will close with some force. I'll email the engineer at Proof to let him know but I don't plan on doing anything about it because the barrel shoots factory and handloads very well at min SAAMI + .004". SAAMI allows for +.010" so it's easily within spec although some might disagree with me on that.

I also ordered a couple of t-latches from PT&G which are for their Remington 700 bottom metal. I wasn't sure what to expect but I plan on modifying the latch to work with the CDI Precision bottom metal in the two Kimbers. Once I have that done and a 7-round AICS magazine adjusted to feed nicely I'll do an apples to apples accuracy/precision test.

 

[troy fairweather]

The head space shouldn't be any problem, the claw should old it anyway it there was to much. I've seen 308s shot in 3006 mausers and not separate the case. The spec for the prc has changed some since it came out so maybe that could account for more space. If it shoots who cares, I'd keep the brass just to be used in that gun.

 

[MCMXI]

The head space shouldn't be any problem, the claw should old it anyway it there was to much. I've seen 308s shot in 3006 mausers and not separate the case. The spec for the prc has changed some since it came out so maybe that could account for more space. If it shoots who cares, I'd keep the brass just to be used in that gun.

I generally keep brass separate unless I'm full sizing every time. Part of my reason for doing this comparison is to figure out if I want to keep both rifles and I want to base that decision on data rather than emotion. Kimber barrels aren't easy to manufacture due to the timing issue, both in terms of where the threads end near the shoulder, and the location of the extractor clearance cut. Most gunsmiths I've encountered struggle with Kimber barrels, even Bergara took a while to figure out how to make them and made more than a few barrels that had to be scrapped. We can obsess about headspace and I'll admit that I like the idea of a chamber at SAAMI minimum headspace but it certainly doesn't mean that anything over won't shoot just as well.

 

[MCMXI]

Well, I went and did it again. I'm so impressed with the Sako S20 6.5 PRC that I bought another, and I'm fairly sure that a third is in my future and most likely a .300 Win Mag. I ordered and received a 20" barreled .308 Win Hunter model. Eurooptic has a special running where if you order a Hunter model you get a Precision stock for free and vice versa. I also ordered two 10-round and one 5-round magazine for the .308 Win, and two 7-round magazines for the 6.5 PRC.

This is what I've noticed about thumbhole stocks and offhand shooting. For me, thumbhole stocks are WAY better for offhand shooting compared to standard stocks, way better. And better yet, there's no tradeoff if shooting from sitting, kneeling, prone or off a barricade. Thumbhole stocks put my wrist in a natural, comfortable and optimal position.

I'm really taken with the S20 platform, and if the weight isn't an issue you'd be hard pressed to find better whether it's function, fit, ergonomics, features, accuracy or precision at this price point.

If you're wondering about running a short action cartridge in a longer one-size-fits-all receiver, Sako did a great job of working that out in terms of bolt stop, bolt travel and magazine design.

 

[MCMXI]

It does look like a pretty beefy action.

I actually like the way the hunter stock looks, and id bet id like the way it feels too.

@LoonWulf, that Hunter stock was functionally the bees knees from day one but has grown on me aesthetically to the point that I really like it now. The .308 Win Hunter with the 20" barrel looks absolutely amazing. The only thing that could improve these rifles is a two-stage trigger (soon to be available in the US) and a Proof barrel which according to my engineer friend there isn't going to happen.

As I've said before, Accuracy International could have and should have done this i.e. offer a paired down "lightweight" version of their AW rifles.