Sargent and Greenleaf Dial

[RBANNON]

I am wanting to replace the Sargent and Greenleaf lock on gunsafe and I do not know how the dial attaches to the lock through the safe door. Is this something that can be done at home or is strictly for professionals?
Thanks,

 

[a1abdj]

Switching from a mechanical lock to an electronic lock is fairly straight forward, and not so difficult that most people couldn't figure it out.

Switching from an electronic lock to a mechanical lock is a different ball game. There is a bit more too it, and I would probably suggest having a pro do it.

If you need me to refer to you a tech in your area, feel free to PM me with your location.

 

[Slamfire]

Here is a S&G lock with back plate off. The backplate is held on with two phillips head screws, once that is off you can see the mechanism.

The dial shaft is threaded. It screws in the middle as you can see in this picture. That shaft is keyed in place with an L shaped key.

You pull out the key and unscrew the shaft.

VD stands for Vertical Down. VU Vertical Up. Up and down are the direction of the locking bolt. This one is down.

P.S. You cannot unlock the mechanism with the backplate off.






I do not want an electronic lock as I have seen too many break. The lock smiths came into my building to drill a safe with an electronic lock. I asked them how often they replace defective electronic locks. At least a couple per week, could be once a day. I asked them how often they replace defective mechanical locks. That stumped them. They thought maybe once a month, could not remember an exact frequency, definitely not often..

Incidentally, it took them all of five minutes to drill out the lock and get the safe open.

 

[m1911.10mm]

For every story like that, there's probably a story that reads the exact opposite.

I had an S&G dial replaced with a LaGard electronic. It never occured to me that I might be able to make the change myself. This on a Liberty Lincoln.

The locksmith who did mine didn't think too highly of the S&G dial. I was surprised to hear it. He seemed to think the LaGard electronic was the end-all, be-all.

He would tell you that he rarely had to make a repair to an electronic lock, and when he did, it was always because the owner had put an extra-high capacity battery in the lock. Those kind of extra-hi cap types sold for use in anything that produces and stores digital media. He told me that those batteries would do a number on your lock.

It's a 9 volt. I didn't know anything still used 9 volt. Now and again I'll take that battery out and stick it on my tongue just for old times sake.

I would have liked to have kept the dial but my eyes aren't what they used to be.

.

 

[Keizer]

Back when I purchased my BF AMSEC, it came with an electronic keypad. I had 2nd thoughts after receiving the gun safe, and started calling around to different locksmith shops to have a dial installed. They all thought I was nuts wanting to convert to a dial. One of the locksmiths even quoted me a discount if he got to keep the electronic keypad after the install. I never did the dial conversion.

After looking behind the door panel at the inner workings, I would not hesitate to do the dial conversion myself. I was really surprised at how primitive and simple the bolt work was on my gun safe. Keep in mind though, that I was a journey level machinist for years, and we built some really high tech automatic multiple drilling and tapping machines. If I still had access to a machine shop, I would retrofit a really cool bolt work set up in my safe, and install a plexi-glass door panel inside.

 

[a1abdj]

He seemed to think the LaGard electronic was the end-all, be-all.

I think the LaGard Basic is an excellent lock, and I haven't had many problems with them. It is interesting to talk to others in the business in other parts of the country who have had the exact opposite experience. Some guys have great luck with S&G, but I've had a number of problems with them. Some of their newer locks show great promise.

I think one of the best electronic locks on the market is one that nobody has ever heard of.

I had 2nd thoughts after receiving the gun safe, and started calling around to different locksmith shops to have a dial installed. They all thought I was nuts wanting to convert to a dial. One of the locksmiths even quoted me a discount if he got to keep the electronic keypad after the install. I never did the dial conversion.

AMSEC is the only safe manufacturer that also manufacturers their own UL listed electronic lock. I have had good luck with them as well.

 

[Slamfire]

The locksmith who did mine didn't think too highly of the S&G dial. I was surprised to hear it. He seemed to think the LaGard electronic was the end-all, be-all.

Guys who have a financial incentive can be very positive about their new products.

Electronic locks are the new thing, they are easier to use, but I don't trust them.

It is very possible that electronic locks will equal or exceed the reliablity of mechanical locks, but the better "industrial grade" locks are well understood mechanisms and have been developed to an high level of reliability. Mechanical locks vary by inside part quality, S&G told me that my lock was an industrial grade, or something like that, and should be good for 80,000 openings.

I have been using mine since the 80's on my Browning gun safe. Since mechanical locks were replaced by electronic locks at work, I have personnally seen three safes drilled open due to electronic lock failure. I never ever saw a safe drilled open due to a failure of a mechanical lock, but according to the locksmiths, these do fail.

I have no reason to change out my mechanical lock. You can buy new mechanical S&G safe locks off ebay for a pittance. This is due to people taking off the mechanical lock and installing an electronic. I bought one complete for $45.00 delvered. If my current S&G gets a little loose I have a spare.

 

[a1abdj]

I never ever saw a safe drilled open due to a failure of a mechanical lock, but according to the locksmiths, these do fail.

There are several things that can cause a mechanical lock to fail. One of the big differences between a mechanical lock and electronic lock failure, is that there are more tricks a tech can try on the mechanical lock that do not involve drilling a hole in the safe. Your trick bag is much smaller on the electronics, and often requires drilling.

Although we do drill far more electronic locks than mechanical, there is one thing that we see that causes the most failures on the mechanical side not counting lost combinations. That is people tinkering with their locks. Although it is not rocket science, there are very mundane things that can result in a lockout. People who try to change their combinations, clean or lubricate their lock, or make other adjustments rank high on the list of mechanical locks that we have to drill. The other bad news is that this also usually voids the warranty on the lock, and the safe owner gets stuck with the bill.

 

[Walkalong]

My safe came with an S&G dial lock that was silver with black numbers and lines. Lots of glare and difficult to use even with glasses. I replaced the dial and ring with a spyproof black with white numbers and lines. The numbers face up which helps and the big numbers and lines are easy to see. I can open it without glasses. I usually have to use 1.25 or 1.5X reading glasses to read, and I still need glasses to open my other dial which has fine black lines and numbers on a gold dial & ring.

I love the white on black. Very easy to see and open.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=140640&d=1303091526

 

[RBANNON]

Thank you for the responses! I really appreciate the help.