Savage 1861 Navy restoration

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Jimkounter

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As a long time lurker I've absorbed loads of useful information from you guys and hopefully I can give something back. I recently purchased a Savage 1861 Navy revolver at auction which had been stripped to the white metal. Other than the lack of any finish it's in great condition. Disassembly was a cinch and I'm very impressed with the overall build quality. This thing is over engineered and of a very high quality. The lever action is ingenious and actually a very simple design. I'm about to give it a good clean and refinish and will post progress here.

Rather than bluing it I'm going for Birchwood Casey plum brown. Wish me luck!
Savage 1861 Navy

Savage 1861 Navy

Savage 1861 Navy Disassembled
 
capandball teaches military history at a university and is working on his PhD in firearms history.
His video about the Savage Navy is not only highly informative, but really brings the gun to life for those of us who don't know as much about it as we could.
For those who care to watch a 7 minute video, enjoy the short history lesson as it's time well spent.
And to top it off, he's a great shooter too!
I'm looking forward to seeing how the plum brown project works out.
Good luck with it!



BTW, Berlin and Middletown, Connecticut are mentioned in the video.
Berlin is a town that borders where I live, and Middletown is a city that borders Berlin, CT, on its other side.
We don't pronounce Berlin the same as the Germans do, but place the accent on the 1st syllable.
 
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Congrats on acquiring such a great gun! I've been intrigued by the Savage for quite some time, and after seeing Capandball's video a while back, I became even more curious. I'll be watching your progress and hope you will make a video of you shooting it for us.
 
Here in the UK I'd need to add the gun to a firearms certificate in order to fire it. Once on ticket it's got to be securely stored so that means I can't display it. It's a bizarre outcome where if I intend to shoot it then it has to be locked up but if not I can happily display it. I'll be displaying it along with my other antique obsolete calibre gun's so no firing it I'm afraid.

It's currently in the oven ready for the final coat of plum brown so hopefully I'll have some pics in the next couple of hours. I have to admit it is a bit terrifying doing this to an expensive antique but it's worth trying it. Worst case I strip it with vinegar and start again.
 
Very cool. To my surprise, I was utterly unfamiliar with the Savage revolver. Ingenious design and I have to agree that it has much to make it even better than the Remington NMA.

I don't suppose replicas have been made?
 
There are no replicas unfortunately. To be honest, the action is slower than a single action and it is absolutely massive and very heavy. The Colt Navy and Army are definitely superior in terms of handling, it's really difficult to get a good grip while levering the action. The build quality however is in my opinion far ahead of the Colts and the fact that percussion caps can't get trapped is a nice feature.
 
Jimkounter said:
Here in the UK I'd need to add the gun to a firearms certificate in order to fire it. Once on ticket it's got to be securely stored so that means I can't display it. It's a bizarre outcome where if I intend to shoot it then it has to be locked up but if not I can happily display it. I'll be displaying it along with my other antique obsolete calibre gun's so no firing it I'm afraid.

It's currently in the oven ready for the final coat of plum brown so hopefully I'll have some pics in the next couple of hours. I have to admit it is a bit terrifying doing this to an expensive antique but it's worth trying it. Worst case I strip it with vinegar and start again.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that Jimkounter. I'll just have to be content with admiring your pictures.

You're doing a fine job on it so far.
 
Isnt doing anything, besides a very gentle cleaning, to the finish of an antique a big no-no? I mean yeah, it was already stripped, but that COULD have been done at any time.. including period.

Dont get me wrong.. Im a BIG fan of browning for replicas.. and since youve already started I hope it turns out really great.. But still, I would have been scared to death to touch the finish on something so old and rare..

Shrugs, but as they say, in for a penny, in for a pound! Its started now so lets hope for the best!

Im a BIG fan of voting with ones feet.. and tax dollars.. I could never live under such tyranny myself.. BUT, this display vs firing insanity? It begs the question.. So, if I "displayed" it, and had some paper cartages on hand.. well.. it wouldnt be very QUICK, but woulnt that make it somewhat accessible at the least??? Its what I would do... A hinged glass shadow box perhaps... Along WITH an example of paper rounds, and an example of a cap box... Filled with caps, of course.. Just an idea :)
 
I have a fantasy and it is to get my hands on a very rare coveted super expensive antique (perhaps a very good rated walker,) totally strip the "patina" off and give it a nice colt python type blue job, smooth the action and shoot lots of full service loads (provided it's safe of course) at the range before allowing a room full of top antique experts to exam it prior to telling them I will be doing some more shooting with it.

I would keep all the high points, jennings, and rohms fingerprint free in a dry safe while I carry my antique in a "period correct" leather holster.

Just a joke truthfully I don't know but maybe ?

I think since the finish has already been recently stripped it's a moot point. If it was stripped over 100 years ago I doubt the metal would still be in the white. It would probably at least have some surface tarnish if not a lot and/or rust. I don't get the impression it was intentionally preserved in the white since the period in which it was made and/or in common use.
 
It was definitely not stripped a long time ago. Close examination revealed that the grips are replacements, the cylinder spring is recently fashioned and the nipples are modern. I don't feel I've damaged an antique as it has had quite a lot of work done to it not long ago. It looks like it was set up for recent use so I'm guessing the previous owner had it on a section 1 firearms certificate. It's certainly in very good working order. The price I paid reflected the fact that it has been messed with so serious collectors shunned it so I've little to lose. I wouldn't dream of doing this with original patina!

Some parts didn't come put as well as I hoped and had a shiny copper finish so I'm redoing them now. Overall I'm happy with the result and in my opinion it's a lot better than it staying in the white. Pics to follow shortly....

The aim of this thread was simply to demonstrate Browning, the fact it's not a replica is incidental. It's definitely going to be the centrepiece of my collection.
 
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I have been following this thread from the get-go. Since it had no original finish, the pristine-oriented "collectors" will most certainly say that you have further diminished its "value" by applying a 21st century browning solution to the metal.

I think what you are doing to a pistol most have never seen or heard of is admirable, sir! I believe it would be a very nice light-load shooter (here in the U.S.) and I understand your constraints in the U.K.

Just keep us apprised of your efforts!

Regards,

Jim
 
Thanks Jim. Like I said, it's certainly easy enough to undo the Browning and get it back in the white. Here in he UK it's not at all unusual to see "original" bluing that is clearly recent. In fact I have an 1860 Army which I strongly suspect is mostly Italian parts and in no way original. I love true original patina but over here that is very rare (and expensive).
 
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My family once owned the largest private gun collection in the South. It was mostly on display at a restraunt / hotel they owned outside Atlanta near Stone Mountain Monument called "Stonewall court" . It was what sparked my strong interest in fire arms I think from being frequently there for the first 6 years of my life. It burnt down in 1953 , few items were salvaged , many treasures were burnt. Apparently there were live Civil war shell which exploded too !
There were a couple 1861 Savage pistols I grew up around anbd played with as a kid. They were not valued like the Colts ! Anyway I don't remember much finsh on them, they were all uniform grey, perhaps they were originally in the white ! I can't seem to pin point the factory finish in my research.
 
There are 8 Savage Navy revolvers on Gun Broker right now. None of them over $3000. It would seem that serious collectors only want pristine specimens.

If it were my gun, I'd do the exact same thing the OP is doing. It's not hurting the value at all, and it's obviously increasing it's value to the person it matters most to, the owner.

I am anxiously awaiting the outcome of the refinish! I can't wait to see it!
 
Jimkounter

I also greatly admire your efforts to get this vintage Savage up and running again!

Here's hoping the browning turns out okay and everything goes back together in working order!
 
Okay.. so after an entire weekend browning, restrippimg and rebrowning parts it's ended up like this.... 20190120_204903.jpg
I'll be honest and say I'm not at all happy with the results. I blued the trigger, trigger guard and hammer and these came out ok. The section that holds the rammer just won't brown properly. I stripped and decreased it several times and it just won't hold the finish. I was aiming for an aged look so blemishes are fine but the final result is terrible! I'll polish the finish more with wire wool but I'm not hopeful. I'll probably restrip it and blue it instead.
 
Don't be in a hurry. I think that looks pretty nice. Thanks for the photo.

But if you want some patterning in the patina, why don't you try the mustard technique before stripping this finish off?

Degrease the metal, daub on mustard, unevenly is actually better. Let it dry slowly for a couple of days until the mustard is a hard crust. Then scrub the mustard off with hot water and dishwashing detergent, dry the metal, polish a bit with oil on 4/0 steel wool.

You will get some dark and light areas that may be just what you are hoping for.
 
Jimkounter, I agree with J-Bar. It looks really good to me in the picture. The mustard trick may help it too. You could always try it and if it doesn't look the way you want, nothing is lost because you're re-stripping it anyway. But just from that one picture, I like the way to looks.
 
For a browning job that looks pretty darn good. If you decide to go with blue try the Belgian hot rust blue. Will duplicate the original finish and is not complicated. Only requires on vessel to boil water that will accommodate the largest pistol part.
 
I think it looks fine even though unevenly browned.
I once looked at a S&W NM No 3 with a very fine modern hot reblue, a lot like Colt Royal Blue. A collector discouraged me from buying it and I came to regret listening to him.

Jimkounter said:
Here in he UK it's not at all unusual to see "original" bluing that is clearly recent.
Click to expand...

Reading Autocar and The Handgunner, Ltd. I realize that "respraying" a car and "reblacking" a gun are more socially acceptable in England than they are here. The above collector told me, "Remember, 100% factory refinish is Zero percent original finish." He said he could get me a used but still attractive original finish revolver for the price of that reblue. Wrong. I bought one he recommended but it was not all that good looking.
 
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