Benmathes
Member
thank you!
thank you for taking the time and effort to share you wisdom! Great stuff!
Merry Christmas
thank you for taking the time and effort to share you wisdom! Great stuff!
Merry Christmas
How to best use a cap and ball revolver
- Thread starter Gatofeo
- Start date
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madcratebuilder
Member
I'll contribute to this oldie but goodie. I well use a welding tip cleaner, very carefully, on my nipples to remove any buildup of hard fouling. Normally a tip cleaner found on your nipple wrench well do, but every few hundred rounds I like to run a welding tip cleaner through mine.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Thanks for all the TIPS!
Fingers McGee
Member
Some items used as nipple picks can enlarge the orifice and effect performance. If you keep the nipples clean, you should never have to use a wire, welding tip cleaner, paper clip, or anything else to clear the orifice of your nipples.
After every shooting session, I remove the nipple(s) and let them soak in Birchwood Casey BP solvent while I clean the rest of the gun that the nipple(s) came out of. Last task is using a wire brush on the outside pf the nipple to remove the cap fouling, pipe cleaner to clean the interior of the nipple, and a blast of air in the orifice end to dry any moisture and blow out any pipe cleaner fuzz or other lingering dirt.
After every shooting session, I remove the nipple(s) and let them soak in Birchwood Casey BP solvent while I clean the rest of the gun that the nipple(s) came out of. Last task is using a wire brush on the outside pf the nipple to remove the cap fouling, pipe cleaner to clean the interior of the nipple, and a blast of air in the orifice end to dry any moisture and blow out any pipe cleaner fuzz or other lingering dirt.
OP
OP
Gatofeo
Member
Leapin' Loading Levers, has it been nearly 6 years since I wrote this piece? 
Well, I still stand behind it. I don't know that I've learned any new tricks since posting it. If I have, they've become second-nature and thus, forgotten easily.
One little trick: I cut pipe cleaners into 2-inch lengths, then bend a short L at the end. The long end gives me a good handle, while the short end does a good job of scrubbing out the inside of the nipple's cone. A few quick whirls of the pipe cleaner inside the nipple, while it's submerged, coupled with a little pumping action and the interior is clean.
Holding a nipple while scrubbing its threads with a brass brush can be a problem. I bought some cheap, small needle-nose pliers for this task. I gently hold the cone in the pliers and scrub the threads all the way around.
It occurs to me that perhaps an old wire-stripper might work as well, giving you various sized holes for any nipple encountered.
Forceps should work fine too, especially if you can get them to lock without marring the cone.
Perhaps the plastic pliers sold as toys would work, without risk of marring.
I'm brain-storming here. These should give you some ideas.
Keep the tips coming, folks!
New and old shooters alike -- including a certain, grumpy ol' desert cat in Utah -- are profiting from your experience and innovation!
Well, I still stand behind it. I don't know that I've learned any new tricks since posting it. If I have, they've become second-nature and thus, forgotten easily.
One little trick: I cut pipe cleaners into 2-inch lengths, then bend a short L at the end. The long end gives me a good handle, while the short end does a good job of scrubbing out the inside of the nipple's cone. A few quick whirls of the pipe cleaner inside the nipple, while it's submerged, coupled with a little pumping action and the interior is clean.
Holding a nipple while scrubbing its threads with a brass brush can be a problem. I bought some cheap, small needle-nose pliers for this task. I gently hold the cone in the pliers and scrub the threads all the way around.
It occurs to me that perhaps an old wire-stripper might work as well, giving you various sized holes for any nipple encountered.
Forceps should work fine too, especially if you can get them to lock without marring the cone.
Perhaps the plastic pliers sold as toys would work, without risk of marring.
I'm brain-storming here. These should give you some ideas.
Keep the tips coming, folks!
New and old shooters alike -- including a certain, grumpy ol' desert cat in Utah -- are profiting from your experience and innovation!
I use the pipe cleaners with bristles on them for both cleaning the inside and as a handle for holding onto the nipple while cleaning the threads. They will slip if the threads are very dirty, but once I have them cleaned out and they just require touchup, the bristles help hold the nipple very nicely.
Gatofeo...Thank you. You have pretty much taken out the trial and error from first time users to b.p. I have gotten a couple of friends into b.p. shooting and have given a copy of your treatise to them before they brought any revolvers. so with gratitude from my friends and myself again Thank you.
OP
OP
Gatofeo
Member
My pleasure. There is a slight fee for all of this.
Um ... if you "cross over" before I do, put in a good word for the ol' desert cat. I'll need it.
Um ... if you "cross over" before I do, put in a good word for the ol' desert cat. I'll need it.
qajaq59
Member
Gatofeo, where would one buy "cartridge paper"? Rolled loads would be handy when hunting.
OP
OP
Gatofeo
Member
I'm told that many people use Zig-Zag cigarette rolling papers to make their paper cartridges. I haven't tried that, but hear it works well.
Myself, I bought a couple containers of Saltpetre from the druggist years ago. I mix three or four heaping tablespoons in a quart of water, and stir until it's well dissolved.
Then I cut regular printer paper into fist-sized squares. I pour the liquid solution into a glass baking pan, then add the squares of paper. When the paper is well-soaked, I hang it up to dry on a line with clothespins.
This time of year, when it's cold outdoors, a couple of suction cups on the tiles of the shower will hold a thin line from which to hang the paper and let it drip-dry.
(Hey! I heard that! Someone muttered, "The ol' nasty cat must not use his shower often." I'll have you know that I shower at least once a month, smartypants!
)
Anyway ... when the paper is dry, it's ready to make cartridges.
Store the solution in a plastic container with a plastic lid. The solution will rust a steel cap.
For .44 caliber, use a length of 7/16th dowel, about 6 inches long, with the end sanded down to a taper. For the .36-caliber, use a 3/8 inch dowel that's been sanded down to a slightly smaller diameter. Or, sometimes, you can use 5/16th dowel.
The dowel will be used to form your paper cartridge, which must be slightly smaller than the chamber so it slips in easily.
Determine your powder charge, which will dictate the size of the paper slip you'll be using. Cut the paper to size from the sheet.
Roll the slip of paper around the end of the dowel, leaving a little extra hanging off the pointed end. Glue the paper's seam with a tiny swipe of rubber cement. A toothpick helps. Now, you'll have a tiny snow-cone or cup, to which you add your powder.
Fold over the little tail on the tapered end, and secure it with a thread or a dollop of glue. Or use both, with the thread holding it in place until the glue dries.
Allow to dry, if you used glue.
Add your powder charge to the open end of the paper cartridge. Fold over the end and secure with glue. You can also attach a conical bullet to the end of the paper cartridge but I rarely do. I find that using the paper cartridge, without projectile attached, is easier.
I don't often make paper cartridges. It's time-consuming and I find it much easier to just use loose powder.
The paper cartridges can be carried in tiny, plastic tubes with stoppered ends. Or lay them flat in a small tin.
In the old days, Colt's paper cartridges were carried in a small block of wood with six holes bored in them of the appropriate size. The block was then sawed in half lengthwise. The wood block then had a string placed around it, leaving a tail end, and then wrapped in heavily waxed paper for waterproofing.
In use, it worked fairly well. You grabbed the tail end of the string that stuck out of the wax paper, pulled it to tear the wax paper all the way around the block, and each half of the wooden block opened flat, to expose the cartridges.
Samuel Colt's first such cartridges were assembled with tin foil, not paper. (real tin foil, not aluminum foil). The quality of American tin foil was poor, so he ordered the tin foil from Germany, which had a long history of toy-making and used tin foil for toys and other uses.
Very, very few of those first tin foil cartridges exist today. They are among the most sought-after examples of early American cartridges. Cartridge collectors pay a premium for these early tin foil Colt's cartridges, on the rare occasions one becomes available.
A full, sealed box of real Colt's tin foil cartridges would be worth many hundreds of dollars, perhaps thousands.
After a year or few of producing tin foil cartridges, Colt's began using combustible paper. It was cheaper and easier to obtain.
It's good to have a few paper cartridges on hand, to show others how the old timers loaded their guns, but they're a bother to make.
If you want to carry a few reloads in the field, in your pocket, you would probably do better to purchase a small powder flask, such as that made for the .31 Colt, with a nozzle that holds the desired powder.
If you can't find a .31 nozzle (nozzle? dang ... it's nearly 1 a.m. and I've forgotten it's proper name! But you get the gist) of the right capacity, buy one that holds half the charge you want, then just charge the chamber twice.
Or carry a little measure and use the flask to dispense into the measure.
Paper cartridges are fragile. It can be a challenge to carry them in the field, without damage.
The old, Colt's system of the split wooden block, wrapped in wax paper, was pretty good. It would still work today.
God knows where you'd find real tin foil. I'd rather use combustible paper, to ensure every bit of it is consumed.
I'd rather carry a small flask and measure.
Myself, I bought a couple containers of Saltpetre from the druggist years ago. I mix three or four heaping tablespoons in a quart of water, and stir until it's well dissolved.
Then I cut regular printer paper into fist-sized squares. I pour the liquid solution into a glass baking pan, then add the squares of paper. When the paper is well-soaked, I hang it up to dry on a line with clothespins.
This time of year, when it's cold outdoors, a couple of suction cups on the tiles of the shower will hold a thin line from which to hang the paper and let it drip-dry.
(Hey! I heard that! Someone muttered, "The ol' nasty cat must not use his shower often." I'll have you know that I shower at least once a month, smartypants!
)Anyway ... when the paper is dry, it's ready to make cartridges.
Store the solution in a plastic container with a plastic lid. The solution will rust a steel cap.
For .44 caliber, use a length of 7/16th dowel, about 6 inches long, with the end sanded down to a taper. For the .36-caliber, use a 3/8 inch dowel that's been sanded down to a slightly smaller diameter. Or, sometimes, you can use 5/16th dowel.
The dowel will be used to form your paper cartridge, which must be slightly smaller than the chamber so it slips in easily.
Determine your powder charge, which will dictate the size of the paper slip you'll be using. Cut the paper to size from the sheet.
Roll the slip of paper around the end of the dowel, leaving a little extra hanging off the pointed end. Glue the paper's seam with a tiny swipe of rubber cement. A toothpick helps. Now, you'll have a tiny snow-cone or cup, to which you add your powder.
Fold over the little tail on the tapered end, and secure it with a thread or a dollop of glue. Or use both, with the thread holding it in place until the glue dries.
Allow to dry, if you used glue.
Add your powder charge to the open end of the paper cartridge. Fold over the end and secure with glue. You can also attach a conical bullet to the end of the paper cartridge but I rarely do. I find that using the paper cartridge, without projectile attached, is easier.
I don't often make paper cartridges. It's time-consuming and I find it much easier to just use loose powder.
The paper cartridges can be carried in tiny, plastic tubes with stoppered ends. Or lay them flat in a small tin.
In the old days, Colt's paper cartridges were carried in a small block of wood with six holes bored in them of the appropriate size. The block was then sawed in half lengthwise. The wood block then had a string placed around it, leaving a tail end, and then wrapped in heavily waxed paper for waterproofing.
In use, it worked fairly well. You grabbed the tail end of the string that stuck out of the wax paper, pulled it to tear the wax paper all the way around the block, and each half of the wooden block opened flat, to expose the cartridges.
Samuel Colt's first such cartridges were assembled with tin foil, not paper. (real tin foil, not aluminum foil). The quality of American tin foil was poor, so he ordered the tin foil from Germany, which had a long history of toy-making and used tin foil for toys and other uses.
Very, very few of those first tin foil cartridges exist today. They are among the most sought-after examples of early American cartridges. Cartridge collectors pay a premium for these early tin foil Colt's cartridges, on the rare occasions one becomes available.
A full, sealed box of real Colt's tin foil cartridges would be worth many hundreds of dollars, perhaps thousands.
After a year or few of producing tin foil cartridges, Colt's began using combustible paper. It was cheaper and easier to obtain.
It's good to have a few paper cartridges on hand, to show others how the old timers loaded their guns, but they're a bother to make.
If you want to carry a few reloads in the field, in your pocket, you would probably do better to purchase a small powder flask, such as that made for the .31 Colt, with a nozzle that holds the desired powder.
If you can't find a .31 nozzle (nozzle? dang ... it's nearly 1 a.m. and I've forgotten it's proper name! But you get the gist) of the right capacity, buy one that holds half the charge you want, then just charge the chamber twice.
Or carry a little measure and use the flask to dispense into the measure.
Paper cartridges are fragile. It can be a challenge to carry them in the field, without damage.
The old, Colt's system of the split wooden block, wrapped in wax paper, was pretty good. It would still work today.
God knows where you'd find real tin foil. I'd rather use combustible paper, to ensure every bit of it is consumed.
I'd rather carry a small flask and measure.
JimSimmons
Member
I stumbled upon this thread while searching for a solution to a problem I was having with my .44 CB repro. This was a Christmas present from my son (ain't I lucky). He also gave me a .50 St. Louis Hawken rifle kit (I'm still working on it)...Anyhoo, the problem I was having was the fired cap falling into the "works" and locking the cylinder up like Hogan's goat. This did not occur when I fired caps only to clean out the cylinders; however, when I loaded her up on the range I fired the first round and could not cock the pistol. I had no idea what had happened, so I removed the wedge and pulled it apart and the fragments of the fired cap fell out.
I reassembled the pistol, fired the second round and the same thing happened again. I finally got all six to fire, but not two in a row.
I read the whole thread looking for a solution...Finally, there it was..."Turn the pistol upside down, then cock it". Then I remembered something I had heard (or read) years ago about the old time shooters raising their arms high and to the rear when cocking. This was done to prevent the fouling.
In regards to the guitar string used as a nipple pick, there are two E strings on a guitar. The one you want to use is the "little E" or the 1st string. I've used guitar string for many, many years to clean orifices on carburetors, paint sprayers and any other small hole that needs cleaning.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the education concerning the care and feeding of these pistols. It was time well spent. I'm glad it was archived. A BIG thumbs up.
I reassembled the pistol, fired the second round and the same thing happened again. I finally got all six to fire, but not two in a row.
I read the whole thread looking for a solution...Finally, there it was..."Turn the pistol upside down, then cock it". Then I remembered something I had heard (or read) years ago about the old time shooters raising their arms high and to the rear when cocking. This was done to prevent the fouling.
In regards to the guitar string used as a nipple pick, there are two E strings on a guitar. The one you want to use is the "little E" or the 1st string. I've used guitar string for many, many years to clean orifices on carburetors, paint sprayers and any other small hole that needs cleaning.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the education concerning the care and feeding of these pistols. It was time well spent. I'm glad it was archived. A BIG thumbs up.
JimSimmons
Member
I read a post in another forum the other day about using egg cartons for wads (the Styrofoam type). They said it worked fine. To punch them out use a .45 cal shell and a mallet. Has anyone tried this? I did punch out a couple and they fit nice and tight in my .44 cal. CB pistol. It was also mentioned that they do not melt, which would be a normal concern. I may try one (just one) the next time I'm at the range just to see what will happen.
BHP FAN
Member
cork gasket material from the auto parts store would be a better bet.
Earlier in this post you all were talking about chain fireing in a revolver. What happens more often then not that hasn't been mentioned is that one or more of the nipples with caps on them have hit the back frame and set of that cylinder. This can happen when a cylinder gets wore and lets it come back to far. Or something under a nipple seat or thread not letting it tighten down far enough. Or just not getting a nipple tightened all the way down, Or a gun that was just made poorly in the first place. If a gun had just one or two properly seated nipples without enough clearance those would have to be filled shorter.
When the hammer hits the cap it pushed the cylinder forward. The charge goes off and slams the cylinder back. A long nipple can go off at this point.
I shot a lot of black powder revolvers in the 60's and 70's and never used anything under the ball. Only Crisco over the ball. Of literly 1000's of shots I have never had a multiple fire.
When from the front it is usually from a ball that is too small making it a loose fit or a chamber or chambers with a mouth that is smaller then where the ball sits, (or just a burr around the mouth). The one would need the chambers honed.
If the ball fits tight and your gun has a good cylinder and cylinder fit and proper nipple clearance it most likely won't ever happen to you.
When the hammer hits the cap it pushed the cylinder forward. The charge goes off and slams the cylinder back. A long nipple can go off at this point.
I shot a lot of black powder revolvers in the 60's and 70's and never used anything under the ball. Only Crisco over the ball. Of literly 1000's of shots I have never had a multiple fire.
When from the front it is usually from a ball that is too small making it a loose fit or a chamber or chambers with a mouth that is smaller then where the ball sits, (or just a burr around the mouth). The one would need the chambers honed.
If the ball fits tight and your gun has a good cylinder and cylinder fit and proper nipple clearance it most likely won't ever happen to you.
Even if the caps fit poorly and come off? I think you need to include good fitting caps in your statement.
I shot a lot of black powder revolvers in the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's, and I've never had a cylinder be driven into the recoil shield and fire a cap. But I suppose it could happen.
Your right about the cap fit. I should have included that.
I notice on my guns that originals seem to have the clearance pretty close between the cap and frame where as some of the copys have much more and some way to much so the caps can fall off. The colts like the 1851 navy had very close clearance and the caps can't fall off. But then at the same time that close gap has to be watched so what I talked about in my last post won't happen.
I notice on my guns that originals seem to have the clearance pretty close between the cap and frame where as some of the copys have much more and some way to much so the caps can fall off. The colts like the 1851 navy had very close clearance and the caps can't fall off. But then at the same time that close gap has to be watched so what I talked about in my last post won't happen.
1a. BEWARE OF BRASS FRAMES: Unless you wish to replicate what a few Confederates carried, steer clear of brass-framed guns. Brass is not as strong as steel and will get stretched over time with the pressures of firing. Also, in my experience, brass-framed guns are simply not as well-made as their steel brethren.
There is one gun I know of that doesn't suffer from the Cat's warning...the Pietta copy of the Spiller & Burr. Solid frame of brass...excellent workmanship mechanically as well as cosmetically!!
There is one gun I know of that doesn't suffer from the Cat's warning...the Pietta copy of the Spiller & Burr. Solid frame of brass...excellent workmanship mechanically as well as cosmetically!!
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HEAVY-B
Member
Excellent bunch of info Gatofeo .....and everyone else too.
Thank you all.
Thank you all.
Hogwash. Treat rhese guns with respect and they'll last for years. I have three that are well made, accurate and all-round excellent firearms. This statement may have been true thirty years ago, but not today.
Sure a lot of the brass-frame prejudice on this forum. I have to say anyone having the problems described above with their brass-framed guns have mistreated them something awful.
Son of Rifleman
Member
Thanks Gatofeo for great info
Gatofeo, I've been shooting black powder for as long as I can remember.
I've only just become a member of the forum and read your stuff on the subject.
On behalf of all black powder shooters in the world, I thank you for the time that you have spent in putting together such comprehensive text on the fine old art of Black Powder Shooting.
More power to you old son !!
Keep your powder dry, you may need it sooner than you think !http://www.thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Gatofeo, I've been shooting black powder for as long as I can remember.
I've only just become a member of the forum and read your stuff on the subject.
On behalf of all black powder shooters in the world, I thank you for the time that you have spent in putting together such comprehensive text on the fine old art of Black Powder Shooting.
More power to you old son !!
Keep your powder dry, you may need it sooner than you think !http://www.thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Thanks so much for all this great information, it's helping me get back to shooting my cap & balls that I hadn't shot in several years.
In case it helps anyone, the frost king felt weatherstripping mentioned is definitely polyester and should not be used. Found some at Lowes, put a flame to it and it just melted into a little gray puddle.
So definitely stick to the Durofelt mentioned in the wad making thread. Which by the way, is also sold on ebay, forget their exact seller name, something like durof01, can find it by searching for "hard felt". It's more expensive than ordering direct, but easier than mailing or faxing their order form.
In case it helps anyone, the frost king felt weatherstripping mentioned is definitely polyester and should not be used. Found some at Lowes, put a flame to it and it just melted into a little gray puddle.
So definitely stick to the Durofelt mentioned in the wad making thread. Which by the way, is also sold on ebay, forget their exact seller name, something like durof01, can find it by searching for "hard felt". It's more expensive than ordering direct, but easier than mailing or faxing their order form.
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