sbr manufacturer address question

[greyling22]

I'm starting the paperwork to SBR an anderson lower. where it asks for a manufacturer name and address, do I use what is stamped on the gun:
anderson manufacturing
hebron, ky

or do I need an actual street address? (1743 Anderson Blvd, Hebron, KY 41048)

also, I hear you need to put an actual caliber down now on the for, not multi. is this correct? the receiver is stamped "multi cal"

 

[vtsteve]

City and state should be plenty sufficient for the manufacture’s address. I just checked a few of my older form 1’s that I had put through the e-forms system when that was still an option. They had a drop down to chose the manufacturer, and all of mine simply list the country the manufacturer was in. (Sturm Ruger, United States), etc.

As for caliber, yes you do need to list one. An important distinction is that they are looking for a caliber, not cartridge. So, “22”, or “223” is correct, not “.223 Remington”.

Also of note is engraving. The marking requirements specify that the caliber as registered must be placed on the firearm, but it doesn’t need to be on the lower. The upper or barrel are also acceptable places for the caliber marking, and almost all AR-15 barrels are marked already. If you plan to swap uppers around it might not be a bad idea to have the registered caliber engraved on your lower at the same time as your name/city/state, just so what matches the form is always on the firearm. Whether this is actually necessary is arguable.

 

[greyling22]

thanks steve. that's what I was looking for.

 

[MistWolf]

Greyling, you are using an Anderson lower to make an SBR. Therefore, you use your city & state. Not Anderson's city & state.

 

[pdsmith505]

Here is a redacted copy of my approved e-file Form 1 on an Anderson lower marked "multi"

That should answer both of your questions.

 

[dogtown tom]

Greyling, you are using an Anderson lower to make an SBR. Therefore, you use your city & state. Not Anderson's city & state.

Wrong.
The form asks for "manufacturer" of the original firearm. ATF doesn't want your name...….because you aren't the manufacturer of the original firearm, but the "maker" of a new NFA firearm. Once approved, you'll need to engrave the makers name and location.

How to fill out a Form 1
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...or_41F_submissions/17-465636/?page=1#i4612885

 

[MistWolf]

Wrong.
The form asks for "manufacturer" of the original firearm. ATF doesn't want your name...….because you aren't the manufacturer of the original firearm, but the "maker" of a new NFA firearm. Once approved, you'll need to engrave the makers name and location.

How to fill out a Form 1
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...or_41F_submissions/17-465636/?page=1#i4612885

This is in conflict with the information I was given. I was told that the information on the form needed to match the maker's engraving. For example, if I were making a Form 1 SBR out of my PSA lower, I would engrave my (trust) name, city & state on the firearm and it needed to be recorded on the Form 1. If maker's engraving does not need to be recorded on the Form 1, how will anyone know that is supposed to be engraved? I ask this not as a challenge to your assertion. I ask because it confuses me.

 

[pdsmith505]

This is in conflict with the information I was given. I was told that the information on the form needed to match the maker's engraving. For example, if I were making a Form 1 SBR out of my PSA lower, I would engrave my (trust) name, city & state on the firearm and it needed to be recorded on the Form 1. If maker's engraving does not need to be recorded on the Form 1, how will anyone know that is supposed to be engraved? I ask this not as a challenge to your assertion. I ask because it confuses me.

See photo above. Block 3b has the applicant's name, address, etc. Block 4a has the manufacturer's name and location.

 

[MistWolf]

"Read the form" is not an answer. What the form says and what the BATF requires are not always the same thing. At this point, I don't know what the correct answer is. If you cannot provide the official BATF guidelines, please stay out of it.

 

[dogtown tom]

This is in conflict with the information I was given.

Maybe you should reconsider your source.

I was told that the information on the form needed to match the maker's engraving.

The name does. But the location engraved on the firearm must be the actual location where it was "made", and not necessarily the mailing address of the maker. If the makers address is Dallas, TX but the firearm was actually "made" in Houston...…..you would engrave "Houston, TX" as the location. You would note this in box 4h.


I don't think you understand the difference between "manufacturer" and "maker".
The "maker" is the person or entity that is applying for the tax stamp via a Form 1.
It is not the same as the manufacturer.

If you use an "80%" lower, which is not a firearm, then you would leave box 4a blank...…….because it asks for "Name and Address of Original Manufacturer and/of Importer of Firearm (if any)". With a firearm made from an 80% lower there IS NO original manufacturer. You can't be a manufacturer unless you are licensed as an 07FFL Manufacturer of Firearms.

For example, if I were making a Form 1 SBR out of my PSA lower, I would engrave my (trust) name, city & state on the firearm and it needed to be recorded on the Form 1. If maker's engraving does not need to be recorded on the Form 1, how will anyone know that is supposed to be engraved? I ask this not as a challenge to your assertion. I ask because it confuses me.

You would list your name, trust, etc as the maker of the NFA firearm.
You would list PSA as the original manufacturer of the firearm.
When the Form 1 is approved you will need to engrave the makers name and location on the firearm.

"Read the form" is not an answer.

Read the form is always excellent advice, as is read the instructions.

What the form says and what the BATF requires are not always the same thing.

Yet ATF provides the form. If you have something IN WRITING from ATF that conflicts with the instructions on the Form 1 then please post it.

At this point, I don't know what the correct answer is.

Maybe following the darn instructions is the correct answer.

If you cannot provide the official BATF guidelines, please stay out of it.

We did.
If you cannot provide documentation from ATF that disputes that then maybe YOU ought to stay out of this thread.

 

[MistWolf]

Where has anyone provided actual BATF guidelines as to how to fill out Form 1?

If you were paying attention to what I wrote, you'll see I'm not challenging the assertion, but want the actual BATF guidelines.

For example, if you asked me where to find the track and balance procedure for the main rotor of a Robinson R-44, I would answer "Robinson Maintenance Manual R44, Pg 10.27, Para 10.230". Or, if asked where to find out how to document the procedure, I'd refer them to the proper FARs and company policies, not "read the form".

 

[dogtown tom]

Where has anyone provided actual BATF guidelines as to how to fill out Form 1?

The "actual BATF guidelines as to how to fill out Form 1" are the stinking instructions on the form!
That you don't understand them is an entirely different matter.

If you were paying attention to what I wrote, you'll see I'm not challenging the assertion, but want the actual BATF guidelines.

And if you were paying attention you would have already read those instructions.
Have you not read 4a? You know, where it asks for "Name and Address of Original Manufacturer and/or Importer of Firearm (if any)"

WHAT PART OF "ORIGINAL" DO YOU NOT GET?

For example, if you asked me where to find the track and balance procedure for the main rotor of a Robinson R-44, I would answer "Robinson Maintenance Manual R44, Pg 10.27, Para 10.230". Or, if asked where to find out how to document the procedure, I'd refer them to the proper FARs and company policies, not "read the form".

Nice try but not at all comparable since the instructions to a Form 1 are.... wait for it...……...printed right there on each and every Form 1.


Still not satisfied with my answers?
Back in 2015 when Eforms was still available for Form 1's, ATF put this out in an Ebulletin:

The proper way to identify the manufacturer of a firearm.

For those who will simply be modifying an existing weapon:

If you are modifying an existing firearm, typically a standard configuration rifle into a short barreled rifle, the form requires the name of the original manufacturer of the firearm. When submitting an eForm 1, on the line item screen, a window for the entry of manufacturer is opened after clicking the Add Firearm button. At this point, the applicant would enter a short version of the manufacturer’s name to bring up a list of names for selection of the manufacturer from the list. Select the correct manufacturer and proceed to the description screen. You may note that the manufacturer code field also populates. We issue a code to a manufacturer. While the original manufacturer information is captured, the applicant is the maker and registrant for purposes of the NFA and must mark the firearm.

 

[MistWolf]

Back in 2015 when Eforms was still available for Form 1's, ATF put this out in an Ebulletin:

Why didn't you just say so in the first place? Up until this, all I got from anyone was "cuz we said so". The other "cuz we said so" contradicts your "cuz we said so". What makes you more knowledgeable? Without being able to point to chapter & verse, your "cuz we said so" doesn't carry any more veracity than anyone else's. I've filled out enough government forms to know that what the form asks for isn't always what is wanted.

This thread has helped to more clearly see the signal to noise ratio on these forums.

 

[pdsmith505]

"Read the form" is not an answer. What the form says and what the BATF requires are not always the same thing. At this point, I don't know what the correct answer is. If you cannot provide the official BATF guidelines, please stay out of it.

Read the form is an answer. What the BATF requires IS what the form says. You don't know the correct answer because you are being dense. The official BATF guidelines are on the form.

I jumped in to provide an example of an approved form that corresponded to what the OP was asking.

I would recommend that if you can't read the instructions, you refrain from providing guidance. The rest of us will give useful answers.

Where has anyone provided actual BATF guidelines as to how to fill out Form 1?

If you were paying attention to what I wrote, you'll see I'm not challenging the assertion, but want the actual BATF guidelines.

For example, if you asked me where to find the track and balance procedure for the main rotor of a Robinson R-44, I would answer "Robinson Maintenance Manual R44, Pg 10.27, Para 10.230". Or, if asked where to find out how to document the procedure, I'd refer them to the proper FARs and company policies, not "read the form".

Congrats. The Form 1 instructions are the correct, BATFE approved guidance. I'm not sure why you don't understand that.

Why didn't you just say so in the first place? Up until this, all I got from anyone was "cuz we said so". The other "cuz we said so" contradicts your "cuz we said so". What makes you more knowledgeable? Without being able to point to chapter & verse, your "cuz we said so" doesn't carry any more veracity than anyone else's. I've filled out enough government forms to know that what the form asks for isn't always what is wanted.

This thread has helped to more clearly see the signal to noise ratio on these forums.

Ok, read the front of the Form 1. Block 4a points to instruction 2j. Now proceed to the instructions printed on the form:

Description of Firearm and Markings. (1) Item 4a. If you are modifying an existing firearm, enter the name and location of the original manufacturer. If you are creating the firearm, enter the maker’s name, city and state. (2) Item 4b. The types of NFA firearms are listed in the definitions; (3) Item 4c. Specify one caliber or gauge. If there is another designation, indicate the designation in item 4h. (4) Item 4d. Show the model designation (if known). (5) Item 4e and 4f. Specify one barrel length and overall length in items 4e and 4f as applicable. Note: if the firearm has a folding or collapsible stock, the overall measurement is to be made with the stock extended. (6) Item 4g. Do not alter or modify the serial number of an existing firearm . Enter the existing serial number or, if a new fire arm, one you create. (7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102.

So, like I said before, if you are going to go high and right simply because YOU don't understand, I'd recommend that YOU learn a little bit before YOU spread more incorrect information like YOU did here:

This is in conflict with the information I was given. I was told that the information on the form needed to match the maker's engraving. For example, if I were making a Form 1 SBR out of my PSA lower, I would engrave my (trust) name, city & state on the firearm and it needed to be recorded on the Form 1. If maker's engraving does not need to be recorded on the Form 1, how will anyone know that is supposed to be engraved? I ask this not as a challenge to your assertion. I ask because it confuses me.

 

[dogtown tom]

Why didn't you just say so in the first place?

Because IT'S ALREADY STATED ON QUESTION 4a AND THE INSTRUCTIONS TO 4a.

Up until this, all I got from anyone was "cuz we said so". The other "cuz we said so" contradicts your "cuz we said so".

No, the instruction has always been in box 4a. I can't speak to what someone else told you, but if you read instead of argue you'll go far.

What makes you more knowledgeable?

I read the darn instructions.
HAVE YOU READ THE INSTRUCTIONS? HERE THEY ARE ONE MORE TIME:
Look at a Form 1, turn to page 3. See section 2.Preparation of Application and Payment of Tax?
Now, under paragraph j. you will find Whaaaat?

j. Description of Firearm and Markings.
(1) Item 4a. If you are modifying an existing firearm, enter the name and location of the original manufacturer. If you are creating the firearm, enter the maker’s name, city and state.
(2) Item 4b.The types of NFA firearms are listed in the definitions;
(3)Item 4c. Specify one caliber or gauge. If there is another designation, indicate the designation in item 4h.
(4) Item 4d. Show the model
designation (if known).
(5) Item 4e and 4f. Specify one barrel length and overall length in items 4e and 4f as applicable. Note: if the firearm has a folding or collapsible stock, the overall measurement is to be made with the stock extended.
(6) Item 4g. Do not alter or modify the serial number of an existing firearm . Enter the existing serial number or, if a new firearm, one you create.
(7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102.

Without being able to point to chapter & verse, your "cuz we said so" doesn't carry any more veracity than anyone else's. I've filled out enough government forms to know that what the form asks for isn't always what is wanted.

Yet you've not provided one single bit of proof that ATF has a secret guide or alternate instructions to filling out a form 1.

This thread has helped to more clearly see the signal to noise ratio on these forums.

No, the bottom line is you don't know what you are talking about. In other words the noise is YOU. You gave bad advice above.

 

[greyling22]

This thread needs a Xanax.

Remember, we are the high road.