Scale drawing of custom fighter, input please

[conw]

Hey all,

So I seem to have a way of either ingratiating myself with people or else just being very lucky, and this time I've got a friend who wants to build me a knife to my specs after we were talking about some hardware solutions. I love the Shivworks reverse edge methods materials, and in particular the FGEU (forward grip edge up) style. Trace Rinaldi has made the Clinch Pick for this exact style, and the Disciple could probably work too, but I wanted to make something comparable with a different set of design principles.

Here is a drawing with some measurements...I took inspiration from a couple knives I already own (the ring is inspired by the becker BK14 and Rat Izula) and oddly enough got the reverse tanto profile from a kitchen knife. the top edge is sharpened only, the bottom edge isn't. The drawing is crappy, hopefully I can figure out a way to photoshop it into more solid lines.

The ring on the end is open much like a kerambit. I was thinking G10 for the scale material but only a minimal amount, to add shape laterally. I think the blank should be cut in such a way that the ring can be left un-scaled. Oh, steel will probably be S30V .

There needs to not be a notch on either the top or bottom bevel (bad for draw cuts).

The 3" length is important because I want it to be hassle-free in terms of LEO interaction. I need to measure the widest point of the handle but it will probably be about 1.1". The ergos are really dialed in, I know this because I got the angle exactly the same as aspects I love on the knives I currently carry, or adjusted where necessasry. The most important part is the blade angle, followed by blade length, followed by handle width (top to bottom), followed by the size of the hole. The length of the handle/scales isn't all that important. The thickness (laterally) of the handle will be up to the maker but I am thinking something like 0.4", very thin, because it isn't really necessary to have a whoppin' thick set of scales on there when you have the kerambit type ring.

For those who aren't familiar with FGEU the idea is to lead with the point, aggressively stabbing, and use destructive trapping if the opponent checks or stifles your thrust...you also cut your way out if anything gets in the way, so it's basically - Forward movement footwork -> stabstabstab -> pull -> forward movement...run the bad guy over. This knife will be carried just under horizontal at 11 o'clock in a kydex sheath, with a tek-lok probably.

If anyone can look past the sloppy drawing (I basically traced several different knives, altered the scale, and then made sure I had the angle right) I would love some input.

 

[M-Cameron]

Just my input.....

but with a 'fighting' knife........simpler is always better.....

...now ive never been in a knife fight, but i'd imagine if i was......i would want the knife to be very familiar in terms of form and function........

the first thing i would do would be to do away with the funky blade geometry.........you can keep the tanto design....but i would make it a standard grind....not sharp on the top edge......and i would also round out the transition on the tanto tip to give you a little better slashing ability.....


as far as the handle goes.......again, simpler is better.......i would do away with the 'ring'......because in an actual knife fight stiuation....i cannot think of any way that would be useful.


i think something like this would be more suitable

 

[towboat_er]

Looking better.

 

[rcmodel]

I might question the reverse taper handle too.

Your first and middle fingers are the longest & strongest, while the last two fingers are the shortest and weakest.

Seems you would have a firmer grip on the knife without the tiny reduction in size right where your longer stronger fingers go, and the large increase in circumfrence right where your shorter weaker fingers go.

rc

 

[Unistat]

I might question the reverse taper handle too.

Your first and middle fingers are the longest & strongest, while the last two fingers are the shortest and weakest.

Seems you would have a firmer grip on the knife without the tiny reduction in size right where your longer stronger fingers go, and the large increase in circumfrence right where your shorter weaker fingers go.

rc

Not sure about the OP, but because of the angle of my grip, wider towards the rear of the knife works well for me. The Benchmade Griptillian is quite comfortable in my hand.

Glocks also fit me better than the "perfect" grip angle of 1911s as well. I'm a weirdo, I know.

 

[conw]

Guys, thanks for the input so far. I had the blade length wrong, it's 3.5" on the dot. I will respond more in depth later but:

-The top edge being sharpened has a very specific, legitimate purpose, and that is really the whole reason I am having a knife custom build to spec.



Above, "disciple" (top) and "clinch pick" (middle), made for reverse grip, edge-in and forward grip, edge-up, respectively.

I want something with a little more size than the click pick, but (unlike the disciple) tailor-made for FGEU.

I also happen to differ about the ring. The becker BK14 I often carry OWB is SO easy to index because of the ring, and it greatly aids retention. See also the kerambit, a very effective traditional knife design.

I don't care for the typical Americanized Tanto that is sharpened on the bottom edge, but I think it could work a lot better in this configuration, which is somewhat similar to Michael Janich's design as shown in the Ronin (and Yojimbo)



The Ronin/Yojimbo have a very severe drop from scale to tip, whereas the disciple is more subtle...there are advantages to both. IMO the Ronin/Yojimbo do not have the right angle for FGEU point driven techniques though.

 

[conw]

Guys, thanks for the input so far. I had the blade length wrong, it's 3.5" on the dot. I will respond more in depth later but:

-The top edge being sharpened has a very specific, legitimate purpose, and that is really the whole reason I am having a knife custom build to spec.



Above, "disciple" (top) and "clinch pick" (middle), made for reverse grip, edge-in and forward grip, edge-up, respectively.

I want something with a little more size than the click pick, but (unlike the disciple) tailor-made for FGEU.

I also happen to differ about the ring. The becker BK14 I often carry OWB is SO easy to index because of the ring, and it greatly aids retention. See also the kerambit, a very effective traditional knife design.

I don't care for the typical Americanized Tanto that is sharpened on the bottom edge, but I think it could work a lot better in this configuration, which is somewhat similar to Michael Janich's design as shown in the Ronin (and Yojimbo)



The Ronin/Yojimbo have a very severe drop from scale to tip, whereas the disciple is more subtle...there are advantages to both. IMO the Ronin/Yojimbo do not have the right angle for FGEU point driven techniques though.

 

[Owen Sparks]

You need something to keep your fingers from sliding down the blade if a strong thrust is stopped by bone.

 

[conw]

Owen, I feel the ring is sufficient (from my experience with other ringed knives and thrusting).

Also, RCmodel, I agree with the poster below you...and another reason for the reverse taper is that a lynchpin of the fighting method I would use were I to deploy the knife is draw cuts following stabs. Stab, cut your way out or trap limbs. If you envision the pull cuts the reverse taper may make more sense.

Any more input anyone?

 

[Nivek]

Take a look at Hide Away Knives. I have carried one of their "Claw" models for years. Not exactly the kind of knife you're describing, but is a wonderful choice for a backup/final option weapon. They offer many carry solutions including neck & belt sheaths, leather and kydex.

I've carried one of these every day for years, and am completely comfortable that it could save my life someday. It is also great as an every-day tool.

 

[conw]

I do like the HAK concept a lot, and I'm glad you posted it for everyone to see. Personally the edge up grip just feels better though. And I like point driven aggressive stuff...just personal preference. I don't feel the HAK would work too well for point driven stuff. The angle on it is great though and I think it's an awesome purpose-built tool.

 

[zignal_zero]

i get the whole "inverted edge" thing. a lot of the edge up techniques seem quite straight forward and effective. however, i've never been big on giving anything up and that would include techniques which utilize a knife held in the "hammer grip" (my personal favorite). so, if i was trying to design a knife that allowed for edge up techniques, i'd go with a double edged knife. it just seems like the best of both worlds for a purpose specific piece. have you given any thought to a double edged knife?

 

[conw]

Yes, that'd be pretty cool; I would be fairly happy with just a sharpened swedge. I just can't swing it legally where I live. You on the other hand can carry one with a CWP I believe.