Scandium .357s

[Nightcrawler]

Anybody own and shoot one of S&Ws scandium .357s (or perhaps one of Taurus' comparable titanium .357s)?

I've fired exactly five rounds out of a scandium revolver. It was a concealed hammer .38 J-Frame, with Cor-Bon 110 grain hollow points. Weighed 12 ounces.

The recoil was, well, unpleasant.

I like the concept of S&Ws scandium revovlers, it's just that I think a 17.5 or 12 ounce .357 Magnum might be a little too light to comfortably shoot (with "regular" magnum loads, muchless hot magnums).

The models that have caught my eye are the 386PD and the 340PD.

A 12 ounce .357 Magnum. That's nuts. Nice to carry, not so nice to shoot with. Anybody have either of these? How do they shoot?

I already have a regular steel, 7-shot model 686P on my master list of S&W revolvers that I want, and possibly a model 65LS (I really like the idea of a 3" .357 that holds six shots).

Would I possibly be better served (in terms of shootability) by the model 686P 2.5" and the model 640 than I would by their scandium counterparts? Are the scandium guns to hard on the paws to shoot .357 loads through?

 

[paul105]

I have the 340 Scandium TI .357 Mag w/1 7/8" BBL -- same as 340PD but no black finish and no front sight insert. The recoil is severe with the factory supplied Hogue Batam grips. I actually split the web of my hand and had to have 2 stitches (with 130gr Fed .357 Jacketed Hydra Shok). Would have called somebody a liar if they told me that happend with a .357 Mag. The lower part of my thumb bone kind of juts into the web of my hand and the skin in the web of my hand compresses against the bone. Also, my skin doesn't seem to be as supple the older I get.

After above, I changed to Pachmayr Gripper Decelerator grips. Made a world of difference, but definitely and impediment to concealed pocket carry.

Just had to have a set of Crimson Trace laser grips. I got the rubber ones with the covered backstrap, not the hard plastic version. These grips are more comfortable than the Bantams and more concealable than the Pachmayers.

Was out yesterday trying some moderate .357 loads thru several guns. The load was 14.0 gr of H-110 with Fed 200 Small Pistol Mag primers and a 158gr Lead Round Flat Nose and a 158gr Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point. Actually shot two full cylinders of this load thru the 340 -- the recoil was bad but manageable. I made a mental note to myself, that I could shoot a cylinder full twice a week -- previously only shot .38 specials for practice. I don't know what the velocity was, but would guess somewhere between 950 and 1,000 fps. Will continue to use .38's for practice and finish up with one cyl of above load.

I like the heavier bullets - 158 gr plus in mag config for my outdoor carry purposes. My gun shoots high (very high at 25yds) with these heavy loads. I contacted S&W to see if I could get a higher front sight. They said none was available. This kind of limits the usefulness for me. But being that it is to be used as a last resort, for the most part at "stick it in their ear" distances, I can live with sights as is. For concealed carry, the 158gr LSWC +Ps shoot close enough to point of impact to be effective. By the way, you can't see the laser in broad daylight.

Following are some loads that I have chronographed in the 340 Scan 1 7/8"

Scandium Chrono Results – 2 Each of the Following – Temp 70 – 3 Paces from Muzzle (Approx 9 Ft.)

158 gr Lead SWHP, Remington Factory +P .38 Special 762 fps
158 gr Lead SWHP, Remington Factory +P .38 Special 743 fps

180 gr Lead WFN LBT, Federal Factory .357 Magnum 885 fps
180 gr Lead WFN LBT, Federal Factory .357 Magnum 929 fps

130 gr Hydra-Shok JHP, Federal Personal Defense .357 Mag 1,153 fps
130 gr Hydra-Shok JHP, Federal Personal Defense .357 Mag 1,165 fps

130 gr Jacked Round Nose, Fed American Eagle .38 Special 668 fps
130 gr Jacked Round Nose, Fed American Eagle .38 Special 692 fps


158gr CSWC 13.5gr H2400 at 1,064 fps
158gr CSWC 13.5gr H2400 at 1,085 fps

158gr JHP XTP 13.5gr H2400 at 1,001 fps
158gr JHP XTP 13.5gr H2400 at 1,017 fps

One of the two H2400 loads cause hard extraction – had to pound ejector rod on bench (carpet covered). These loads fine in several other .357s. This is an old lot of 2400 and seems to be hotter than listed in the manuals.

Current Manuals Max Charge of H2400 w/158gr JHP as follows so be careful:

Nosler: 12.3 Gr (yes 12.3 gr)
Alliant: 14.0 Gr
Hornady 14.3 Gr
Speer: 14.8 Gr


I don't have the 386 Scan .357, but I do have a 396 Ti Mtn Lite .44 Spec that is the same config as the 386 -- If anybody is interested, I can post info similar to above on it.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Nice to carry, not so nice to shoot with.

True, but you're going to carry it an awful lot more than shoot it, and if you ever need the gun to save your life, you're not going to care about discomfort.

 

[P7]

Scandium .357's

Hello: I bought a 340Sc a couple of weeks ago and am pleased with it so far. It is accurate, very pleasant to carry and the recoil is manageable with standard pressure and +P .38 loads. I have read the postings of those who have fired full house .357 loads in this pocket rocket and am amazed they can still type. I may fire a few .357 loads just so I can say I did.

Jeff

 

[MikeB]

I have a 340SC. I really like it.

Basically if you are a recoil junkie you'll probably like it. I you don't like recoil stay very far away from one of these. It is manageable, it will beat up your hand a bit. I don't have problems with the web of my hand, but when the gun jumps and twists when firing .357Mag it smacks my trigger finger pretty good with the trigger guard. It only stings a bit, but isn't exactly comfortable.

 

[ChristopherG]

My 340pd is unbelievably good at what it does; put a powerful gun in my pocket. The scandium L-frame 386 is attractive and interesting, but the benefit of this remarkable lightweight technology/alloy is really kind of wasted on a belt-gun, and I don't know how anyone could comfortably pocket an L-frame, so I'll limit my remarks to the J I know.

When I first shot my 340, it made my hand bleed, too (though just a little, and no stitching was required ). I don't know what I've learned in the thousand plus rounds I've put through it, but I must have learned something; because now, I can shoot unlimited 38, or a bunch of 38+p, or at least a few cylinders of honest-to-god 357, without wishing I was at home beating my hand with a mallet instead. My loads have ranged from 148 HBWCs at under 700 fps (FUN point-shooting and plate-pinging practice, and valuable trigger time) to 170 gr Gold Dot Soft Points over a full load of 296--which I load for my 357 Marlin. The big loads are fun to shoot, like a marathon is fun to run: it's nice to have done it, but not something you're real eager to do again real soon.

To answer your last question: Yes, of course the 686 or the 640 or really ANYTHING with greater mass would be more comfortable to shoot. For that matter, adding a bigger grip--the Pachmayr compac (which covers the backstrap and fills the hand nicely) is the one I tried, and it works great--probably helps as much by adding a couple of ounces of inertia as it does by increasing the little gun's grip surface. But a big grip makes the 340 into a belt gun, or a marginal pocket gun, instead of what it really is: the best pocket gun on the market.

If you want a pocket gun, and you don't want to enter the long and fretful discussions of whether the 38 is adequate in a snub, the 340 will give you a range of options you can feel good about (witness Paul's lovely chrono data). If you're in the market for a more general-purpose small-frame 357, something else might better suit your purpose.

Here's mine with the carry grips I've settled on, a tough nylon arrangement from Precision Gun Specialties:

 

[BigG]

The secret with these snubs is to fire them Double Action. My Sc360 works well with 158gr Jacketed as long as I fire it DA it doesn't beat me up too bad. Set one off with the hammer cocked and you will remember words your mother used to wash your mouth out with soap for.

That pretty much goes for any J-frame snub steel or alloy fired with standard ammo. The standard grips do not allow much of a hold when you thumb cock it due to the different hand hold you use to pull the trigger.

Luckily, you got the hammerless so you did it right! Congrats!

 

[MrPink]

My carry gun is a 340PD. Before that I carried a 642. Comming from 1911s and P7s, I really like the light and ultralight weight of these guns and sized just right for very convenient pocket carry.

I do not like shooting full house magnums out of this gun. I use Proload's "tactical lite" 357 load with a 125 grain golddot. A little hotter than a 38+P but with a little practice, shootable. I'd like to try Speers' new 38+P "giant" Golddot for snubbies load, just haven't seen it around yet.

By the way, if you are looking for a 686P, consider that the Performance Center will soon be reissuing the L-comp. Kinda like a 66 F-comp, but on a 586 frame, 7 shot moonclips, tritium front sight. 3" "carry-comp" barrel.

 

[paul105]

Buffalobore has a couple of .38 Spec +P loads that should be useful in short barrel revolvers. Velocities are taken from 2" snubbies.

158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P.--G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.)

125 gr. L.V. Gold Dot (1,050fps/M.E. 306 ft.lbs.)

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#38spl (you have to scroll down, as the 10mm load comes up first on my screen).

Ment to mention in my previous post that the only time I'm without my 340 is when I'm in a place that it is not legal to carry. Size and weight makes a big diff to me, most of the time you forget that you are carrying it. I wouln't carry as frequently if I had to carry a heavier gun.

 

[denfoote]

Scandium as frame material

If these guns are so light as to be painfull and damaging to shoot, then why, in God's name, do you do it???
I have carried aluminum framed pistol that weighs 17oz. It is unpleasent, but not painfull to shoot. My normal carry is a Taurus 605, blue steel, that weighs around 25oz. It is not unpleasent to carry and certainly is heavy enough to shoot without pain or discomfort, even with full house .357mag loads.

Such is the situation with my Kel-Tec P3AT. I was only able to fire 50 rounds through it before it was to painfull to continue. The recoil also took skin off the knuckle of my shooting hand!! I still do not have the sights down to the point where I would carry it!!
This is only a 9mm kurz!!
I can see where .357mag Sc revolver would be in the realm of a "masochist only" gun!!!!


My personal practice is to shoot at least 100 rounds through my carry gun per week. It seems to me that a pistol that is so light as to be painfull to shoot would not be conducive to adequate practice!!!

 

[Majic]

The standard grips do not allow much of a hold when you thumb cock it due to the different hand hold you use to pull the trigger.

Are you saying you have 1 grip for shooting SA and another for shooting DA?

 

[twoblink]

These things are handbusters..

I think the problem I have with them is that because they are so horrible to shoot; most won't practice with it.. And so a slightly heavier gun that I practice with more often is going to be better than a gun I never practice with, especially in the ccw department, where this gun was designed to be.

These things hurt...

 

[BigG]

Different Hand Hold SA vs DA?

Majic: Yep, your trigger finger, or mine at least, is in a whole different position with the hammer cocked. To pull the trigger with it all the way back in the trigger guard (SA) it is a much poorer hold on the diminutive standard boot grips; middle finger and half of ring finger.

When pulling thru DA, the trigger pull itself adds about a finger's worth of steadiness to the hold.