Scenario: Try this.

[clubsoda22]

This was an actual event, this happened thursday. The only difference is that the victims were unarmed sheep and submitted to the violent attack. In my opinion they are lucky that they only got off with minor injuries. Suppose you are in this scenario, armed. What actually happened after this particular scenario starts was the victims were assaulted and robbed at gunpoint.

I got to college in a rough neighborhood, it's surrounded by an urban environment but the campus has some open space and trees, it's. Kind of a suburban oasis in the ghetto. CCW is legal but campus policy forbids what they consider "offensive" weapons (though it is still legal).

This is a picture of campus. The yellow is a construction sight. You have just left the library with your girlfriend (she is unarmed). You are on a path between the library (triangular building) and the construction sight heading for the large parking lot to the north east. It's a bottleneck without a doubt, between the fence on your left and the library wall on you right there are only two directions you can travel. both obstacles make it hard to see anything that's not on the path.

You are 3/4 way down the path and you notice 3 black males enter the path heading the opposite direction. You are threat level is slightly elevated due to your prejudices, but there are plently of blacks on campus so you are not overly concerned. The 3 men walk in a delta pattern towards you. I in the front, two following closely behind. As you pass the lead he sucker punches you knocking you backwards and onto the ground (you land on your rear). He reaches under his shirt for a gun, another proceeds toward your girlfriend. The only one that clearly has a weapon is the lead.

Begin Scenario

 

[Devonai]

The only question in my mind is: who is going to get to the draw more quickly? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it's me. Now the man with the gun has been shot 2-4 times. I rise to one knee, taking a bearing on the next closest BG. Further action as necessary.

 

[Dorian]

I may react differently alone, but when a loved one is in danger, read the post above.

I see gun and you've lost your chance if I'm with someone I care for.

 

[MJRW]

Brandish my cell phone telling them I'm going to call the police.

Errr...draw fire on the one nearest me while moving away from them until I have enough room to fire on the one with the weapon (if they are not the same person, if they are, fire one closest to loved one). Switch back to closest approaching target or maintain on armed one until all 3 either flee or are "stopped."

 

[clubsoda22]

Here's your POV for anyone confused.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

**assuming I'm 21 and have my CC permit**

Draw 9mm pistol while creating distance

Drop to one knee (rule four- reduce chance of injuring others with shoot-through)

Shoot armed BG--twice--1 in COM, 1 in the head

Shoot BG near girlfriend--twice--1 in COM, 1 in the head (Since his companion struck me and drew his weapon at the same time he approached GF, I believe he poses a threat of serious bodily harm to her)

Return to standing position

Assess 3rd BG- Order him to the deck- If he does anything remotely threatening, I would believe myself in danger of serious bodily harm--see above

Scan the area for additional threats

Call police/campus security

Give police/campus security "name/rank/serial number"

SHUT UP

 

[Don Gwinn]

Some of you aren't reading carefully. Hint: Where are you at the end of the scenario?

 

[clubsoda22]

yes don, right before i give the "begin scenario" order. you happen to be on your butt with a perp standing over you reaching for a gun.

Here's how i'd work it if i were legally carrying (which i cannot as of yet).

Draw from semi-suppine position and fire upwards at perp over me. 2 to the chest, followed with a mellon shot if needed.

If the BG going after my girlfriend has turned tail and ran or is standing there looking like a deer in headlights, he'll get a "verbal warning". If he is is doing anything that would jepordize my girlfriend or appears to be reaching for a weapon he'll get the same treatment as BG#1. Same goes for BG#3

If all 3 needed to be taken out, all shots would be from the ground in the semi-suppine position. If I got a deer in headlights look i'd regain my balance and begin with verbal comands.

 

[atk]

I agree with clubsoda22's analysis. There are a couple of things I'd add, though:

1) Any girl I'm dating has to be stable and have a good head on her shoulders - I'm not interested in air heads, nor am I interested in people who freak out easily.

2) Any girl I'm dating will soon learn that I am serious about personal protection. If she doesn't want to carry, fine. Her decision. She does, however, have to realize that bad things can happen, and that if something like this does happen, how I intend to respond. She will also know that I want her to make distance between her and the bad guy - this will give me a much cleaner shot at the bg approaching her.

3) When all the BG's are handled and accounted for, and I'm reaching into my pocket to pull out my cell phone, I'm walking over to my GF to comfort her. If she's okay, I'll probably give her the phone once I've described the situation to the campus police, so that she has something to do. I'll also ask her to go sit over near the library wall, some distance away, in case any of the hoodlums decides to be stupid (if any still have the capacity, that is ).


Edit: One thing I just thought of - I've just been knocked on my rear. If the BG closest to me is advancing on me, I'm gonna lie back and kick him as hard as I can, while I draw.

 

[TonyB]

Shoot bg w/ gun first,2 to the body,shoot bg w/ girl friend 2nd(if he's still around) and shoot 3rd bg last.....call police.......say " I thought we were dead."shut up.....

 

[chevrofreak]

In a situation like this you dont go for your gun, that takes too long, what you should do is kick the guy in the testicles, knee, stomp on his foot or whatever you are able to do at the time. When he reacts to the pain, THEN you reach for your weapon.

You are already at a huge disadvantage here, theres no point getting yourself shot while going for a gun, because then you will be no help to your girlfriend.

 

[clubsoda22]

granted, you can assume this guy is gonna be cocky and not be doing a speed draw. He thinks he's got you. Drawing a weapon is likely to supprise him. Say you're on your back and not quite in kicking range. Just quick-draw double-tap. You'll have that split second where he realizes what's going on and has to process fight or flight. By that time i'd have 3 doses of +P attitude correction in him and some left over for his buddies. Hopefully his buddies realize that these aren't the sleeping pills you wake up from and bolt.

 

[Sportcat]

Looks like the bad guy with the gun is a cheerleader, or something.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Soda, when on the ground, is the BG on top of us, or at our feet?

If he's within arms reach, I rather go for my knife.

 

[fix]

The correct answer is: Do not allow yourself to be sucker punched in the first place.

 

[atk]

fix,

While that is always the best answer, it's not always practical. People get distracted, don't notice things, or don't anticipate a problem. And sometimes they do everything right, but are still forced into a bad situation.

Assume one of the above happened - maybe the path between the construction site and the library isn't very wide, and only two people can fit down it, side by side. How do you prevent yourself from getting sucker punched (the thugs appear to have given no warning until they're on top of you)? What do you do if you're hit, anyhow, and the scenario clubsoda22 laid out happens?

 

[T.Stahl]

- Shoot BG-with-a-gun, twice, through his belly into his chest. I'd be of no further help if he'd shoot me.
a) Shoot BG who's closest to / appearing to be most dangerous for my girlfriend. Shoot third BG if he doesn't show a sign of unconditional surrender. Get up.
b) If one of them has reached my girlfriend, shoot the other. Get up. As soon as the opportunity arises / he presents a large enough target, shoot him. Shoot him again while he falls.
- Visually check that shot BGs are really taken out.
- Move gun away from BG-formerly-with-a-gun, #2 and #3.
- Check that my girlfriend is ok.
a) If she's seriously injured and needs help immediately, shoot third BG dead, shoot #1 and #2 again to make sure they're dead. Reload. Call ambulance. Administer first aid to girlfriend.
b) She's ok. Tell her to call police and ambulance. Order third BG to get into a stress position against the fence. Left hand over right, legs crossed and feet far away from fence. Reload. If he moves, he'll be shot, too.
- Move into a better position.
- Look out for police/rescue. Prepare for their arrival. Make sure they can easily ID us as the good guys.
- When they arrive, remain silent. Make sure girlfriend knows to remain silent as well.

-----

BTW, I consider the pledge "I willing to kill for you" to be more important and valuable than the pledge "I would die for you."

 

[fix]

People get distracted, don't notice things, or don't anticipate a problem. And sometimes they do everything right, but are still forced into a bad situation.

Ahh, but that's what situational awareness is all about. Nothing would prevent the victim from stopping and preparing for a confrontation, regardless of how embarassing it might seem. At the very least, position yourself so you have a fighting chance. You are correct, sometimes you can do everything right and still be caught in a bad situation. However in this case, the victim did not do everything right.

What do you do if you're hit, anyhow, and the scenario clubsoda22 laid out happens?

Fight.

 

[OrvilleYertleson]

If I felt I was able to draw and fire my weapon before the BG with the gun was able to shoot me, I would do so as fast as possible. I would shoot him at least three times before even worrying about the two other BG's because he poses the greatest threat. Then, unless I see another weapon, I would shoot the person nearest my girlfiend since they may have a weapon that I haven't noticed yet. If the last person wasn't running away by now I would shoot them too, reasoning that thier continued presence continued to constitute a threat.

If the first guy with the gun managed to 'get the drop' on me, I would feign submission until I felt I had an opportunity to draw my weapon without immediately getting shot. If I felt that the situation was only going to get worse , I would attempt to draw and return fire despite my chances of getting shot first. I would have to weigh my chances of success against my chances of failure because if I tried to draw my weapon, and was killed before I could shoot anybody, my girlfriend would probably be next. There is no sense in throwing both our lives away. Especially since a safe outcome (for my girlfriend and I anyway) is the desired result.

 

[clubsoda22]

To answer the question, he's at your feet. As far as not drawing goes, it can happen that the BG just pulls out his gun and shoots you both so there aren't any witnesses. Happened last year to a student on my campus. Two guys came up behind him, shot him twice in the back and took his wallet. Killed for $6.

Personally, i've requested that the path be closed until the construction is done...campus safety said it was a good idea, but we'll see if they do anything.