School me on 22 LR ammunition

[itsa pain]

Almost 4000 posts and you do not know much about any 22 ammo? sounds like to much surfing and not nuff shooting lol

 

[Potatohead]

Plus 1 for Mini Mags

Ive gone through a couple boxes of Stingers, they functioned very well.

 

[orionengnr]

Sorry, the last couple of years, when .22LR ammo has become a commodity that sells for .12/rd or so, has become an oddity that I no longer participate in.

I have a certain amount of .22LR ammo, but at its current replacement cost, it makes no sense for me to burn it up.

I can hand load .45acp for .12/rd. Why would I shoot .22LR at the same price? Answer: I would not, and will not.

So my best answer is: buy whatever .22LR firearms show up at a bargain price, and put them away. Wait until .22LR ammo returns to a sane level (if it ever does) and then enjoy.

Until then, load and shoot tons of 9mm, .38Spl, .45acp, etc.
Sit on whatever .22LR ammo you have.
That is what I am doing.

YMMV.

 

[orionengnr]

Sorry, the last couple of years, when .22LR ammo has become a commodity that sells for .12/rd or so, has become an oddity that I no longer participate in.

I have a certain amount of .22LR ammo, but at its current replacement cost, it makes no sense for me to burn it up.

I can hand load .45acp for .12/rd. Why would I shoot .22LR at the same price? Answer: I would not, and will not.

So my best answer is: buy whatever .22LR firearms show up at a bargain price, and put them away. Wait until .22LR ammo returns to a sane level (if it ever does) and then enjoy.

Until then, load and shoot tons of 9mm, .38Spl, .45acp, etc.
Sit on whatever .22LR ammo you have.
That is what I am doing.

YMMV.

 

[Pete D.]

.22s

A complex topic.
Whenever I acquire a new .22 rifle or pistol, I purchase as many brands of SV and Subsonic ammo as I can afford (used to be a lot easier to do that). Then I go to the range and test it all. Whatever gives me the best and most consistent groups at target distances (50 ft to 100 yards) is what I buy. I will (or I used to) buy a case of the stuff.
I do not shoot hi-vel or hyper vel ammo at all. Why? Because all national smallbore records were shot with SV ammo.
Cleaning a .22.....it has been well and truly said that more .22s have been damaged by cleaning than by shooting them dirty. I will lubricate the extractors of my guns and the slide on semi-autos and take a cotton swab to the breech face....but that is it.
I can and do reload .45s for way less than current .22 prices. Why shoot ..22s?
Because some matches are for .22s only and that is what needs to be shot in practice.
Pete

 

[BigBL87]

My thing is, even at gouged prices 22lr is still cheaper than 9mm. I began shooting during the shortage, so shortage prices are all I know. Right now I have 400 rounds of CCI SV and 475 rounds of Federal HV. All I've been able to find under 10 cents a round, which is my personal cut off price.

 

[HexHead]

My new Browning T-Bolt really likes CCI SV, though it's done well with Mini-Mags as well. I'd sure love to find some CCI Green Label. Haven't seen any of that in years.

The Advantage Arms upper I have for my Glock 26 eats Golden Bullets like candy. It, and Mini-Mags, were the only rounds recommended in the manual.

 

[JoelSteinbach]

I have found that for serious shooting, my Anschutz BR50 gun loves Eley Tenex, I have tried all of the others over the years, but nothing gives my the consistency of Tenex in that particular rifle.

 

[Cee Zee]

I have found that for serious shooting, my Anschutz BR50 gun loves Eley Tenex

Hey I have that dream all the time! Too bad I wake up and realize I can't afford that rifle or that ammo. I do have some Tenex though. I have only found one rifle it works really well in. I'm sure it's a problem with the quality of rifles I'm putting it in. I came oh so close to a 40X based ,22 with a Shillen barrel and a Jewell trigger not to mention a tuner and a custom built stock. Could have bought it for a whopping $1000 but it was gone by the time I rounded up the money. It was offered to me right before Christmas when all my money was spent of course. Dems da breaks they say.

But of course the real price of shooting on any level is the ammo. It quickly exceeds whatever you might have spent on a particular gun. It's not hard at all to spend 5 times as much on ammo for a gun compared to what you spent on that gun. Sometimes it can be much highter. Just as an example I bought a Marlin 60 just for plinking and varmint control back in 1989. Since then I've put about 150,000 rounds through that rifle. Even at jsut $10 a brick (which is lower than what I paid for most of the ammo I put through that rifle even though I almost always put bulk ammo through it) that's still $3000 for ammo in a rifle that cost me less than $100. I think I paid $90 for it. So that's more than 30 times the cost of the rifle that I spent on ammo for it. Not all examples are that extreme of course. Let's talk about the CZ 453 I own now. I paid $500 for it or so. I've owned it for about 4 years. I've put at least a dozen bricks of Eley Match ammo through it which is about $100 each or more. I'll call that $1500 or so considering some of what I bought cost more than $100 a brick. Then there's the Wolf ammo I shot through it. I know I spent at least $500 on 10 bricks of that ammo that went through the CZ. Plus I've bought lots of CCI SV that I shoot through it. A conservative number should put me in the $2300 range for all this ammo together. Add in the various other stuff I've tried and it's clearly a $2500 number for ammo through that one rifle since I've owned it. That's 5 times what I paid for the rifle and I've only owned it 4 years.

Shooting is not a cheap hobby. But I love it and the money is gladly spent on my part. When I start thinking about what I spend on all the guns I own I don't want to buy a gun that requires Tenex quite so much a I did in my dreams. Maybe if I sold all my other guns and concentrated just on that one rifle I might see it as a good idea. But I have too many guns I don't want to give up. Besides it makes for a nice protected investment should the markets crash on us. Guns may not bring cash but you can sure use them for bartering if need be.

 

[22-rimfire]

Just about any 22 rifle will benefit from shooting higher grade target ammo if you are measuring group size. I am comfortable with Wolf Match Target and CCI Standard Velocity for all but the most serious of target shooting. I don't even consider Tenex although I have a few boxes of the stuff.

If you shoot 22's much, you will exceed the cost of the firearm in ammunition. That is true of most firearms.

 

[Warp]

I know people have said this, but...

CCI .22lr is pretty universally considered one of the best intersections of price vs quality, especially as far as reliability is concerned. The Standard Velocity is great target ammo and the Mini Mags are great for hunting, plinking, or use in guns that want a little more energy to cycle reliably.

Wolf Match Target and Match Extra are a also a great intersection of price/quality for target shooting, very accurate stuff for the money.

 

[Deanimator]

I use almost nothing but CCI Standard Velocity, but then most of my .22 shooting is with a High Standard target pistol. I'm not really to enthusiastic about cracking the frame of a $600 (more than ten years ago) pistol using cheap high speed ammunition.

 

[22-rimfire]

Have done the same things with my High Standard Victor in terms of not using HV ammo any more.

 

[Cee Zee]

Just about any 22 rifle will benefit from shooting higher grade target ammo if you are measuring group size.

I can't say as I agree with that. I've shot Tenex in a dozen .22's or more and it's only been the best in one of them. I always test my firearms with different ammo because every firearm has ammo it likes and ammo it doesn't like. I do find that most guns shoot well with CCI SV but they don't shoot their best with that ammo. I think Wolf dropped off in quality a while back. I rarely buy it now. And I find Eley EPS groups better in almost all of my .22's.

 

[Pete D.]

benefit

When I was testing ammo for my High Standard Victor (quite a while ago at this point), two brands emerged as clearly better than all of the others - Eley Tenex and Federal Target (711s.).
I went with the Federal ammo for years....cases of the stuff. A few years ago, though, there seemed to be a fall off in the Federal....they changed the name and the packaging and so, it seemed, the quality. I went to CCI SV for practice and to Eley Club for matches.
Pete

 

[22-rimfire]

I can't say as I agree with that. I've shot Tenex in a dozen .22's or more and it's only been the best in one of them. I always test my firearms with different ammo because every firearm has ammo it likes and ammo it doesn't like. I do find that most guns shoot well with CCI SV but they don't shoot their best with that ammo. I think Wolf dropped off in quality a while back. I rarely buy it now. And I find Eley EPS groups better in almost all of my .22's.

I don't usually include Tenex when I am testing ammunition in a rifle. It is too expensive for my needs regardless of how well it often shoots. The point I was trying to make is that in general as you move up the price scale with 22 ammunition, a given rifle will tend to shoot more consistantly from shot to shot. More consistantly usually means it will group better in a relative sense. I'm not saying that it is the "best" necessarily. If you really want to see how your rifle shoots and what is "best", you have to put in the time and test various ammunition with it and see how it does.

I still have about a case of Federal 711's in my stash. When you choose 711's or CCI SV, you are generally not shooting "the best", but that doesn't mean it doesn't shoot well. Essentially once you can get 1/2" groups pretty consistantly at 50 yds, shaving off 0.1" or 0.2" tends to be expensive and that is what you get with the higher grade target ammo IF it shoots well in your rifle. Some rifles will simply not shoot that well regardless of the ammo. I limit myself to sporters mostly and have little desire to step up the game to the highest grade target rifles.

 

[jrdolall]

PH I own 37 different guns in .22 LR and they are all different. I have what are considered "great" quality guns that only like certain ammo and some that will eat anything you put in it. have el cheapo guns that act the same.
As far as the bulk ammo goes I have no real issue with any of them. Remington (Golden and Thunderbolt) get a lot of bad press on this forum but I have guns that will shoot an entire brick in an afternoon and not have a single misfire. I also have guns (Browning Buckmark) that will FTF every 3-4 rounds using them. Since I use this bulk ammo for training and plinking I don't mind the occasional misfire and it gives plenty of opportunities for people to practice tap drills.
Stingers work well in MOST of my guns but are not always the most accurate.
Blazer seems to be the best bulk ammo I buy.
The HV ammos work well in MOST guns.
I use powderless ammo for squirrels and such in my backyard. It is accurate out to 25 yards or so and sounds like a BB gun. I try for head shots since the bullet is only 20 grain and I have had some squirrels run off after body shots.
Winchester bulk is on par with the Remington bulk.
Federal seems to be a step above Rem and Win in my guns but that could just be perception and not reality.

I have over 20k rounds of assorted ammo and am constantly trying new combinations. I have some guns and ammo marked to make sure I always use that particular ammo in that gun.

 

[Potatohead]

Thx for the info fellas.

 

[Deanimator]

Regarding accuracy of .22lr loads in rifles, absolutely some of the most accurate ammunition I've seen was old Russian steel cased bulk. It was incredibly dirty, and couldn't be used in a Ruger MkII (bullet bent as if on a ball and socket joint).

A friend tried it in his Parker Hale(?) Martini position rifle. It was easily in the top three loads he tried. It might actually have been better than Eley.

 

[Cee Zee]

The point I was trying to make is that in general as you move up the price scale with 22 ammunition

I wouldn't disagree with that at all. It's just that Tenex in particular seems to work well in high level rimfire guns but it doesn't work that well in lesser guns. I don't know why but I have tested it a good bit. I have much better luck with other ammo. The ammo I've seen that consistently tops every other type I've tried is Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match. As was mentioned before, Federal will repackage ammo so that it looks like their really expensive stuff no doubt trying to cash in on the reputation they built with the really good ammo. I've never seen the cheap imitation stuff work well at all. But the GMUM stuff is what the US team used when they won in the Olympics (which is rare BTW). If you can still find that ammo (yes they ahve discontinued producing it for some strange reason) then you really have something IMO. But as you said it is not cheap. Good doesn't come cheap in the ammo world for the most part. I still see a box or two of the GMUM here and there. It costs from $17-$22 a box (not a brick - a box of 50) so it's priced right up there with Tenex and maybe even a little higher. As a general rule you do have to spend more money to get the best groups. You're right about that. I just don't think Tenex always makes for better groups in most guns.

I know most of the top shooters use it. We haven't talked about the fact that different lots produce different results BTW. Just because one batch of Tenex doesn't shoot well it doesn't mean all of it won't. The top shooters test production runs for quality and when they find what they like they order a bunch of it. They will call distributors all over the country looking for pallets of the stuff. You can imagine what that costs. But that's how you get to the top of the heap I guess.

FWIW lot numbers matter in other types of ammo bsides rimfire too. If you're shooting off the shelf ammo you will probably find that one box of a particular type of ammo will do very well while the next box won't even though it is exactly the same except it's from a different production run. I've seen that with .223 ammo. I was nailing bulls eyes at 500 yards with some Black Hills ammo one day. I had never shot that well. I had some groups that were down to about an inch at that distance. I thought I had finally hit on the exact right combination of ammo and gun. Then I ran out of the box I was shooting from and opened another and it wasn't nearly as accurate. My groups were out to 6"-8" which isn't very good at all for the rifle I use. The lot number was the only difference. That's why really good shootes make their own cartridges. Factories just don't produce the consistent quality that a dedicated reloader can produce.

 

[JoelSteinbach]

My last purchase of Tenex was about 6 years ago pre retirement, I had tested a few different batch #'s and purchased 10 bricks of the best from Champions choice in TN, unfortunately my health does not allow me to compete any longer, I still have 7 bricks left that I cherish, and use sparingly because of the replacement cost. It is the only consistent one holer, with my BR50 gun that I have at 50 yards. l also possess Besides the Anschutz BR gun, a Kimber, and a Remington 40X a self customized Ruger 10/22, along with a lot of fun guns ie lever actions.

 

[itsa pain]

I use almost nothing but CCI Standard Velocity, but then most of my .22 shooting is with a High Standard target pistol. I'm not really to enthusiastic about cracking the frame of a $600 (more than ten years ago) pistol using cheap high speed ammunition.

If I paid 600 for a pistol and it would crack using cheap high velocity ammo I would say that the gun is cheap

 

[Pete D.]

Junior

absolutely some of the most accurate ammunition I've seen was old Russian steel cased bulk. It was incredibly dirty, and couldn't be used in a Ruger MkII (bullet bent as if on a ball and socket joint).

Yes....the Russian "Junior" .22s. A case of 10 bricks could be had for less than $100. I still have a couple of bricks on the shelf.
Curiously, my Ruger Mk.II is the only gun in which that ammo will shoot reliably. It goes bang in all of them but will stick in the chamber of some.
Pete

 

[mboylan]

Yes....the Russian "Junior" .22s. A case of 10 bricks could be had for less than $100. I still have a couple of bricks on the shelf.
Curiously, my Ruger Mk.II is the only gun in which that ammo will shoot reliably. It goes bang in all of them but will stick in the chamber of some.
Pete

I have a few bricks of the older brass cased stuff from the 80s with moderately heavy lube, probably Soviet. It shoots somewhere between CCI Standard and Wolf MT.

 

[Potatohead]

Thanks for the info guys, I'm still hanging around and reading everyone's posts.