school me on copper fouling

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Axis II

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I have 2-223rem I mostly run v max and fmj through and will be shooting a lot of plated pistol ammo here soon. I usually use hopps copper solvent in the rifles and see online guys say if you have copper in the barrel the patches will be blue. I cant remember ever having any discolored patches so does this mean I don't have copper issues or hopps is just junk?

I'm thinking about trying shooters choice copper removers. I was going to use sweets 7.62 but I see where if used wrong it will damage a barrel. I'm also interested in boretech eliminator.

I'm just trying to keep everything in tip top shape so want the best to make sure I have clean barrels.
 
You should be able to see copper fouling just looking down the barrel. When using copper solvent, you will definitely see colored patches if copper is present.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
You should be able to see copper fouling just looking down the barrel. When using copper solvent, you will definitely see colored patches if copper is present.
Click to expand...
whats it look like when looking through the barrel? Serious question. :)
 
Some bores will copper foul a lot, and some only a little.

If it fouls a lot, you need to VERY thoroughly clean it, shoot 1 round, clean again, and continue until patches are coming out clean. Then shoot three rounds and clean, until you are getting clean patches. Your bore will then go much longer between copper cleanings. I did this on a 1917 Carl Gustaf that fouled excessively, and greatly improved the number of shots between cleaning.

Once it is broken in and very clean, treat it with Ultra Bore Coat.

If it doesn't foul much, shoot it and be happy. And/or treat it with UBC.

Ammonia based cleaning compounds produce blue patches when cleaning copper fouling. It takes very little copper to produce the blue compound. Newer formulations like Wipe Out produce a different shade of blue, but it's still very easy to spot.

There is nothing special about most of the ammonia based cleaners. You can mix 10% janitorial ammonia with equal parts of cheap liquid detergent and get a decent approximation of Sweet's 7.62, for example. It's cheap, and it works fine. Just don't do something silly like leave it in for several hours. Wipe Out is reputed to be more error proof.

If you run Wipe Out or Sweets through the bore, let it sit 15 minutes, and are not seeing blue, you don't have a copper fouling problem.
 
anyone have issue with copper fouling and plated pistol bullets?
 
Never had a problem with plated pistol bullets in the three calibers I have shot: .38, .357, and .45 ACP.
 
When this came up, I went and got my 1980 vintage Ruger Mini-14 out of the gun cabinet. It is 37 years old and has shot approximately 800 rounds. Almost all of the rounds fired were 60 grain Hornady Spire Soft Point or Hollow Point bullets over 20.3 grains of IMR-4198 (note that this was a below-maximum load per Hornady Handbook #4, but is above maximum per Hornady Handbook #8).

Each time it was fired, it was cleaned by running a patch down the barrel soaked in penetrating oil followed by a dry patch (or two) and then an oily patch. Maybe a couple of times a decade I would run a wire brush down the bore and clean it with Hoppe's #9. This was always a working gun and so was maintained in what I would call an "adequate" fashion.

I took several minutes with an LED bore light to examine the bore and, separately, a halogen light so that I got two different spectrums of visible light. I could find no evidence of gilding metal being deposited in the bore. That's just the experience of one man with one gun, but if you combine it with the experience of others you may be able to paint a picture of just how extensive the problem is and how much you have to worry about it.
 
If you have never seen blue on a cleaning patch in .223 the reason COULD be that you don't just run it through and see blue on the patch. You run the wet patch through the barrel and then let it sit there for a few minutes. I usually leave it for about 10 minutes. When you then run another patch through the bore, it will be blue. I have owned a fair number of centerfire rifles and I have never shot one and didn't get blue patches. Some worse than others, but they all discolor the patches to some degree. You just have to allow the solvent to react with the copper. That being said, I was recently cleaning a milsurp rifle; who knows when or if it was ever properly cleaned. It was so badly fouled with copper that when I simply pushed a patch with solvent through the bore, it came out blue instantly. But, in normal commercial rifles, it takes a few minutes to react with the copper.

Regular Hoppes #9 is a good copper solvent. This is based on my having used it for 40 years but I also recently watched a video on YouTube of a guy that worked in a lab and did fairly scientific testing on bore cleaning solvents and good old Hoppes #9 did great in disolving copper. I think it came in #2 to Sweets or some strong ammonia type solvent.
 
I'd say that regular Hoppe's #9, while a wonderfully effective powder solvent, is not effective in removing copper. Hoppe's Bench Rest Copper Remover-----now that is excellent at removing Cu fowling.
 
Use powder like
CFE 223 contains our Copper Fouling Eraser ingredient, originally used in military propellant, which greatly deters copper fouling and contributes to longer periods of top accuracy with less barrel cleaning time.
Click to expand...
for rifles.

Reloder powders have it, except 17.

Look for tin oxide in powders MSDS, in others.

Let #9 soak in the barrel over night.
 
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I don't care for heavy duty chemicals. Sweets 7.62 and harsher especially. I came across this stuff several years ago and used it to clean out a 30 year old 243 varmint barrel. I've since used it to "recondition" most every old barrel, hand gun, hunting rifle, etc. The clean up oil Corbin sells is expensive and probably nothing more than the old refined sewing machine oil. I use Lathe Spindle Oil instead.
Go to their site, click "Lube & Chemicals" then scroll down to Corbin Synthetic Sapphire Bore Lap.
It works and it is not too time consuming to complete the job. I hope they still sell it.
http://www.corbins.com/
 
You will never remove ALL traces of copper from a barrel & it isn't necessary. You can damage the barrel trying. You can remove most of the copper with an ammonia-based solvent, but I wouldn't leave it in the barrel for more than a few minutes.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I have 2-223rem I mostly run v max and fmj through and will be shooting a lot of plated pistol ammo here soon. I usually use hopps copper solvent in the rifles and see online guys say if you have copper in the barrel the patches will be blue. I cant remember ever having any discolored patches so does this mean I don't have copper issues or hopps is just junk?

I'm thinking about trying shooters choice copper removers. I was going to use sweets 7.62 but I see where if used wrong it will damage a barrel. I'm also interested in boretech eliminator.

I'm just trying to keep everything in tip top shape so want the best to make sure I have clean barrels.
Click to expand...
The only time I use it is on long range rifles like my M24 and LT OBR, and this is done once a year. In my experience, the accuracy effects of some copper fouling is minimal.
 
On a badly fouled barrel it's possible to have multiple layers of copper and powder. Might take several sessions with solvent then brush to get one like that clean. A buddy gave me an old Springfield that he said wouldn't shoot..and the copper was thick on that one! Got it all dissolved out then used the brush and #9 and got a LOT of carbon out. Then there was a bunch more copper. Finally got down to bare barrel steel and it ended up shooting well.:)

Don't forget JB Bore Paste can smooth out a rough barrel that seems to foul more easily than it should. My last Remington 700 in 308 fouled pretty quickly and felt very rough. Polished it up and then it would run a bunch of rounds through with excellent accuracy and afterwards cleaned easily. I know some people will say JB Bore Paste is the stuff of the devil and should never be used on a good barrel...and I'd agree...if you had a good barrel. But one that fouls easily is NOT a good one...so some TLC might be called for.
 
I'm not even sure I've got a fouling problem i just like to keep my good shooter a good shooter. :)
 
I cleaned my 223rem bolt action today with hopps benchrest copper remover I had laying around. I ran a soaked brush through about 5-6 times and let it sit for about 5-10min and ran a jag with 2 patches through and got a very dark blue color but what was odd was it was only on one side of the patches. It could have just been me. I ran a bore mop soaked in hopps benchrest through a few more times and let it sit and same result. after about 20 patches it finally came clean but would you guys get something a little more aggressive than hopps copper? I planned on shooting today so didn't really take the time letting it soak.
 
If you used a bronze brush and copper cleaner together, you will get false indications. The copper cleaner is dissolving the copper out of the brush bristles. If you haven't yet, get some nylon bristled bore brushes.
 
Jake in TX said:
If you used a bronze brush and copper cleaner together, you will get false indications. The copper cleaner is dissolving the copper out of the brush bristles. If you haven't yet, get some nylon bristled bore brushes.
Click to expand...
well that make sense. I seen them in the store when getting 9mm/38 brushes and didn't know why you would want a nylon brush.
 
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