School teacher in Wisconsin SUSPENDED for handling firearm

[sniper5]

Grey Mana

Slight difference. I have a username here. No pictures of me, no name, no company I work for, no pictures of wife, family, or friends. And a moderated forum frequented by like minded members for the most part. Also, even here, I try to be VERY careful about what I post and not give out TOO much info. As do many others.

 

[#shooter]

The ACLU should be all over this violation of her 1st Amendment rights, right.

 

[ALHunter]

"After this, though, they would be stupid NOT to renew her because now it's discrimination."

Well, it may be a form of discrimination, i.e. anti-gun. But, it is not legally recognizable discrimination under Title VII, §1981, §1983, or any other federal statute. I doubt it is illegal discrimination under any state statue either since the mostly mirror the federal statutes.

Don't get me wrong, I think it stinks. But this teacher is all but fired and there is no way she is going to get a "big pay day" from any kind of lawsuit. If members of the school board and/or the superintendent are elected, then the good folks of WI need to get organized and send a message next time elections roll around.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

But, it is not legally recognizable discrimination under Title VII, §1981, §1983, or any other federal statute.

Au contraire, mon frere. It most certainly is a potentially good section 1983 claim - deprivation of civil rights under color of law. Heller changed everything.

This is gonna be real simple: If she doesn't get a lawyer and sue or otherwise make waves, then they'll probably non-renew her when her contract is up. If she DOES get a lawyer, they'll be so scared of a lawsuit for wrongful termination / retaliatory action that they'll walk all over themselves trying to offer to renew the contract.

And someone was right - where is the ACLU here?

 

[Glockman17366]

Actually, this is a good thread...
We post and read many threads concerning Illinios (mostly about Chicago) and the attempts to establish RKBA in that state.
Unless I'm mistaken, Wisconsin is the only other state that has no form of concealed carry laws (other then those laws banning carry).
Is there any movement in WI to bring it into the mainstream of gun rights?

 

[QuietEarp]

Unless I'm mistaken, Wisconsin is the only other state that has no form of concealed carry laws

That explains it, she was just being extra sure that her shotgun was not concealed in the photo.
I did go to the school district's website and here is their statement onf nondiscrimination

No person may be denied admission to any public school in the district or be denied participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be discriminated against in any curricular, co-curricular, student services, recreational or other program or activity because of the person's sex, race, color, national origin, ancestry, creed, religion, pregnancy, marital or parental status, sexual orientation, handicap or physical, mental, emotional or learning disability in the educational programs or activities operated by the Beaver Dam Unified School District.

There is a lot of stuff in there but it seems as if differences of opinion or morality are absent from the list. The "national origin" thing would be an interesting angle though. "You are discriminating against me because I am an American!?" Also I am not sure if this statement of nondiscrimination is binding in any way or applicable to the employment process but it is interesting.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

Au contraire, mon frere. It most certainly is a potentially good section 1983 claim - deprivation of civil rights under color of law. Heller changed everything.


let me know how that works out. they can can you during probation for no cause. they got a union up there don't they? notice the loud noises its making

 

[SCKimberFan]

Don't mean to nit-pick but what is:

hypocrism

Do you mean hypocrisy?

 

[HonorsDaddy]

Seeing the picture...

I cant see a single thing she has done wrong. That doesnt even merit a talking to. Its a personal site, on her personal time, engaged in a legal activity.

No different than posting pictures of her out riding a 4-wheeler for instance.

I'd say she's going to be getting a VERY large check.

 

[Colin Doyle]

You may be thinking of Erica Chevillar - former high school Social Science teacher from Boca Raton, FL. Some bikini pictures surfaced and everyone raised a stink, but she wasn't in violation of any school policy... I think she left the job for a more lucrative modeling gig, then ended up posing in Playboy (March 2007, in case you're wondering... )

You seem to know quite a bit about this.....

I've seen some things, man. And some stuff...

 

[Duke of Doubt]

HonorsDaddy: "I cant see a single thing she has done wrong. That doesnt even merit a talking to. Its a personal site, on her personal time, engaged in a legal activity. No different than posting pictures of her out riding a 4-wheeler for instance. I'd say she's going to be getting a VERY large check."

No, but she will get her job back with back pay, at least until her contract comes up.

What she did probably was not, and should not, be considered misconduct. But it was very, very stupid. It's probably all the kids at her school are talking about. She'll be "Sarah Connor" to all the students for years. She and the other teachers will be taken less seriously. For years the line "Whattaya gonna do, teach? SHOOT me?! Bwah-hah-hah" will echo the hallways of the school. It was a stupid thing to do, and it was NOT like a picture of her on a four-wheeler.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I would not be so quick to side with the gun owner in this case.

Notably, this is a posed shot which Ramsdale posted herself, under her real name, as the primary photo identifying herself to other Facebook users, which include teachers and students. This is a series of choices she made. I would be concerned, either as a parent or as a school administrator, with a teacher who chose to tie his or her public identity to firearms activities so closely. It is the "this is who I am" aspect of the usage combined with the mild shock (perhaps more than mild to those outside the firearms community who are unaccustomed to such photos) of the photo making it appear as though Ramsdale is drawing a bead upon the camera.

Gun owners are not a protected class under employment law, and there is fairly widespread precedent for teacher dismissals standing for other behavior which, while legal, creates a public relations problem for the school because it undermines the example the teacher is supposed to set as a role model. Cases have included legal but possibly excessive alcohol consumption and various forms of sexual conduct which are edgy but legal.

 

[TAB]

The moral of this sotry is... don't post pics of yourself online.

 

[CoRoMo]

I'm not entirely surprised by this as we've all heard of school kids getting suspended for drawing a cowboy with a gun or talking about a recent hunting trip.

I once posted how, after doing some shooting with my family members, I'll have to make an effort to sit my nephews and nieces down and explain to them that they are not to speak of this experience at school. It sounds absurd, but I think this country has come to the point of absurdity.:banghead:

 

[feedthehogs]

I would be concerned, either as a parent or as a school administrator, with a teacher who chose to tie his or her public identity to firearms activities so closely

So let me get this straight, people who do firearms activities and are not ashamed to let others know about it are some how not responsible enough to teach others?

Or is it just teach kids?

Do you have a life size poster of Eddie Eagle and throw darts at it?

What about the firearms instructors who teach kids hunter ed classes?

 

[feedthehogs]

I would be concerned, either as a parent or as a school administrator, with a teacher who chose to tie his or her public identity to firearms activities so closely

So let me get this straight, people who do firearms activities and are not ashamed to let others know about it are some how not responsible enough to teach others?

Or is it just teach kids?

Do you have a life size poster of Eddie Eagle and throw darts at it?

What about the firearms instructors who teach kids hunter ed classes?

Are you afraid of the mindset of gun owners somehow watering down the liberal garbage taught in the school system?

 

[Crash_Test_Dhimmi]

If you cannot work... Teach.
If you cannot Teach... Administrate.
If you cannot Administrate... Legislate.
If you cannot legislate... Litigate.

 

[bnhcomputing]

Glockman17366
Is there any movement in WI to bring it into the mainstream of gun rights?

YES, there is. The following resolution was introduced in ALL 72 Wisconsin Counties in August, 2008. To date ONLY ONE county has approved the resolution. Wisconsin members here need to RE-SUBMIT the resolution directly and then DEMAND their elected officials acknowledge their constitutional rights.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEREAS, The County Board of La Crosse County Wisconsin affirms that the people have the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

WHEREAS, the concealed carry of firearms is prohibited by Wisconsin Statute 941.23.

BE IT RESOLVED, that open carry is not an unlawful means to exercise these rights, and that no one may restrict a citizen's lawful exercise of these constitutionally protected rights.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

PM me if you are interested in submitting the resolution, I am willing to help. If your board members are not willing to submit/support the resolution, then they do NOT support constitutional rights.

 

[alaskanativeson]

If you cannot work... Teach.

If this was meant purely as a joke, fine: Ignore the rest of my post. If not, please allow me, a teacher, to assure you that my WORK day starts at 7:00 in the morning and continues after I leave school usually somewhere around 5:00 in the evening. It's not uncommon for me to bring home assignments to grade and lessons to plan. Many of my weekends are spent preparing and running activities at the school to keep our students engaged in school events. Please don't make the mistake of telling me I don't work.

Speaking of schools and guns, there are still a few places where they work together. I've taught gun safety as part of out curriculum, which included me bringing my personal firearms into the school to show safe use and handling. The lesson ended in a field trip to the river so we could actually shoot our guns.

 

[General Geoff]

Speaking of schools and guns, there are still a few places where they work together. I've taught gun safety as part of out curriculum, which included me bringing my personal firearms into the school to show safe use and handling. The lesson ended in a field trip to the river so we could actually shoot our guns.

America's not dead, just moved to Alaska.

 

[Crash_Test_Dhimmi]

It was a joke, originally made by Rush Limbaugh, attacking the NEA and the overseeing beaurocrats.

 

[alaskanativeson]

Oh, PLEASE, don't get me started on the NEA...

Like we don't already have enough useless blood-sucking communist leaches in this country striving to make us give up our rights in the name of "Progress" which is what Benjamin Franklin was referring to in his comment about those who give up their liberty and safety deserving neither...

Like I said, don't get me started. Suffice it to say that there is at least one classroom in this country where individual liberty will still be taught. I won't tell anyone what to think, but I'll make sure they know that respect of others is necessary. At least I'll try.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i worked at the nea for a while.... the word inept doesn't do it justice was fun to watch like someone ELSE herding cats

 

[twoclones]

I would be concerned, either as a parent or as a school administrator, with a teacher who chose to tie his or her public identity to firearms activities so closely.

I cannot imagine why this would concern any rational person. When I was a youngster, I hunted with one of my teachers and also with our parish priest. They had their own guns, might mention something about our last or next hunting trip in class [priest was also a teacher] and if pocket cameras had been common we'd likely would have taken photos of ourselves with the day's kill. If my parish priest, football coach, or science teacher was pictured, with or without a student, in the local news paper holding a gun, no one would have been concerned. Yes, those were different times but the same Constitution applied.

Firearm ownership and firearms activities are not crimes. Hiding your connection to these things is counter productive to preserving out RKBA. We should all be supporting this teacher with letters of outrage to her superiors.

 

[ServiceSoon]

And someone was right - where is the ACLU here?

You have been around long enough to know the answer to that question.