Teachers CCW in school

[Eric F]

My wife and I were sitting in the social security office for an apointment. We were waiting for our number reading magazines minding our business and my wife nuged me and said are you hearing this? So I tuned in and a black woman and her mother were talking. This woman is a public school teacher here localy in Va. She was telling her mother how she has a permit and carries in school and how she knew of 5 other teachers in her school that carry in school also. Her mother expressed concern as to the legality of this(which it is not). The woman went on to say she caught a child with a glock type tazer and the child said his daddy got it for him so he could protect himself. Later in the conversation she said there was another child that was caught with an expandable batton but the school system could do nothing about it because it was not being used as a weapon.

As far as the teacher carring a gun in school Va law is clear that this is a felont offense. How smart can this woman be discussing a felony crime that she commits 5 days a week in a public forum. If she were to get caught it would most certianly not help the pro-gun movement in this state or the country. I see this as being the same as a person discussing a bank robery that they pulled off just yesterday.

Where as I understant safety concerns in light of all of the school shootings of recent years I can not support breaking the law in this manner. The chances of getting caught breaking the law seem to be greater than needing a firearm for self defense in this situation. A felony would ruin the legality of gun ownership. I would rather find a diffrent job in a diffrent school if it were that bad to work where she is working.

I had thought about reporting this activity as I know her name and what school she works in but am not 100% on reporting this. For now I will sit on it and think about the consequences of doing such.

I guess I am shocked about the amount of teachers carring guns in schools and the fact that children feel so threatened that their parents purchase itmes like tazers for them. Why not pull them out of school or go threw legal routs to resolve school threats? There has to be better options than arming kids.

 

[GhostlyKarliion]

riiiiiight...

becuase, if the bad guys have guns then laws will stop them from breaking the law...

if I were on a jury that was deciding a case against a school teacher who had a concealed weapon or a student who had a concealed weapon and was not using it in a dangerous manner, then there is no way in h e double hockey sticks I would convict.

I wish every teacher carried guns in school.

where I went to school we carried pocket knives and sometimes, if we were going hunting that afternoon, we carried guns in the car. we said howdy and ma'am and noone ever thought of shooting or stabbing someone else out of anger.

we learned to settle our fights with fists.

 

[Picard]

Are you seriously considering turning her in? It's a bad law. It is not the same as robbing a bank, which is inherently immoral. In this case, the government is the one committing the immoral act by not allowing each and every person the means of self defense.

I'm shocked that you would consider telling on her. Having a firearm on her does not make her more dangerous. In fact, if I had a kid that went to that school, I would know that my kid was safer since, if any craziness did happen, there would be at least one person on the scene with the means to stop them.

I'm waiting to here the case of a teacher who carried a concealed weapon "illegally" but stopped a school shooting because of it. That would strike down the stupid gun free zone laws faster than anything I can imagine.

 

[The_Shootist]

Next Terrorist Target?

Well I'll bet some teachers had wished they were carrying the day some Chechnyan terrorists assaulted that school in Belsan. My guess is that our schools are going to be the next target of terrorists.

But I find your little "snapshot" quite heartening. If 6 teachers at this one school alone were armed, just extrapolating the numbers (among shall issue states teachers work in) mean that our schools aren't quite as defenseless as some might think.

Heck if ya factor in the gang-bangers that might be coming to school heavy, the odds for the terrorists get even worse.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

You'd have to be a COMPLETE MORON to turn that lady in...she is what we NEED in our schools...she is FAR better some KoolAid drinkin, bow to the nazi's, bleeding heart, bimbo teaching our kids how to look at life.

I would have complimented her for having the "stones" to do whats right...legality has NOTHING to do with...all too often whats "right" and whats "legal" are 2 completely different things.

 

[AZ_Rebel]

I had thought about reporting this activity as I know her name and what school she works in but am not 100% on reporting this.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? I respectfully suggest you mind your own business!

 

[bensdad]

I believe that as the number of school shootings goes up (per year, per capita/per anum, however you want to measure it... it is going up), the number of teachers who secretly carry is also going up.

It will be interesting when (not if) one of these teachers uses their gun to defend children. I predict no conviction, universal praise and a re-evaluation of policy.

 

[Eric F]

Are you seriously considering turning her in?

I dont know what I am going to do yet. And to me it is the same as robbing a bank. They are both crimes. moral or other wise. Do we not have a moral obligation to follow the law?

Again I understand the desire to carry and provide self defense but a gun is not the only means to do such. I also know that law enforcement is not 100% reliable. I understand this persons feelings on the situation I would want to carry too its just a case of legality for me at this point.

all too often whats "right" and whats "legal" are 2 completely different things.

I have never heard of anyone being convicted of a felony for doing anything legal. But I do agree in the diffrence between the two.

I respectfully suggest you mind your own business

thats fine and dandy but by the same token folks should not air their business and get offended when every one knows about things.

 

[RX-178]

I personally would never consider turning a teacher in for carrying concealed in the school.

I WOULD speak to her about it, and ask her if she's aware that she is in violation of the law. Then ask her if she realizes that there is every possibility that she will be convicted of a felony if she uses her weapon in defense of the children of the school.

And if she answers yes to both, then there is another teacher that I hold in the utmost respect.

 

[pyle]

I might be wrong about this but I think that here in Oklahoma, a teacher can carry in school if he/she has a CCP and has written permission from the proper school authorities. I need to look it up. It might just be for the principal though.

Ediit:

Nope, I think I'm wrong. Just looked it up and can't find that provision. They must have changed the law or I'm missing something because I know that when I took my SDA class (about 6 years ago) there was a woman in the classs who happened to be a school principal and she was taking the class for the purpose of carrying in her school.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Do we not have a moral obligation to follow the law?

ONLY when they (the laws) do not cause me to risk my life...there are lots of laws that you are unaware of...you break them often.

Some laws are just plain too stupid to follow...thats just a fact of the matter.

 

[pbearperry]

OK let me understand this thread.Teacher has a carry permit and carries illegally so she can protect herself and others if need be.Get a rope and hang her.No way do I want someone to save kids lives.Let's keep doing things the way we have been doing it.After all,the no gun signs have been working good enough.I hope you do the right thing and STHU.

 

[fletcher]

I dont know what I am going to do yet. And to me it is the same as robbing a bank. They are both crimes. moral or other wise

Just because it's a crime doesn't mean it's wrong. It is in no way the same as robbing a bank. Stealing money by force (crime with assault/victims) is the same as illegally carrying a weapon for self-defense (victimless)? If you're seriously considering turning her in, I suggest you think long and hard about the results such an action will create on her life (loss of job, criminal record, possible jail time) because she wanted to be able to defend herself. Would that really be enforcing the spirit of the law?

We've had some almost identical threads on here before and it greatly agitates me every time to see that a pro-gun individual would even think about turning a seemingly good person in for a trivial matter.

Do we not have a moral obligation to follow the law?

It's an exaggeration, but did those blacks have a moral obligation to stay in their place and just follow those segregation laws? "An unjust law is no law at all."

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Just because it's a crime doesn't mean it's wrong. It is in no way the same as robbing a bank. Stealing money by force (crime with assault/victims) is the same as illegally carrying a weapon for self-defense (victimless)?

Well said and 1000% true...sorry guys ...I'm not that good with words...either typed or spoken.

 

[Eric F]

No way do I want someone to save kids lives

I think this might be a mis type but I assume you wanted to say you want asome one who will save kids lives right? In her conversation she said there was a group of kids fighting and one pulled a knife so she left the area. Clearly she does not wish to save kids lives and although she was not personaly threatened she could have done more than just leave and let other school employees deal with the situation. As a teacher if she does get caught what is she teaching the kids? Its ok to break the laws?

At this point I have decided that I will go to the school tomorrow and speak with her and let her know she needs to be careful of what she talks about in public forum. Certianly if the wrong person heard this they would run streight to the school admistration office with this information. Ultimatly she is endangering herself and 5 others jobs.

 

[Blarelli]

Teachers carry legally here all the time. Last semester, at UVSC, 3 of my 5 professors admitted to having a permit, and carrying to school "on most occasions." In one class (not that I took a poll or anything, but I noticed people who 'printed' pretty bad) there was at least 6 students carrying in an intro art class of 18 people.
At my high school, even though I haven't attended there for 7 years, I still know of at least 6 teachers/faculty that carry a gun every day. I really wish other states would follow Utah's example. You would think after 3 or 4 years of trouble free carry in schools, they would realize there theory of arguments escalating into gunfights in the classroom are as ridiculous as they sound.

As for the woman, if she feels like she needs protection at school, then I would leave her alone. Chances are she will never use it, and nobody will ever know (unless she doesn't learn to shut her mouth).

 

[jfh]

Eric F., I see the problem you describe here as a conundrum. That is, the issue is not only that you are alarmed that she is breaking the law, but that you are also aware of the costs of doing so, from several different viewpoints (yours, hers, the legal system, etc.) I'm also going to suggest that the reason you're talking about this--both the activity of carrying in a school, and the costs of doing so illegally--in a public forum is because you're conflicted over the cost of doing so.

It's probably time to re-examine your ethical / religious beliefs on the topic of obedience to the law--Temporal vs. Devine, perhaps.

Without trying to be too intrusive or critical, I can honestly say I see numerous 'gaps' in the logic of your position. This is not an either / or position; that's a false dichotomy. Look for a third way to understand the subject.

As for my own input--that is simply to MYOB. Say nothing to her (she's a big girl, and apparently knows the law). Personally, I believe she is doing the right moral action--IOW, my position is roughly that of the previous posters.

Good luck with it. This is one of those conflicts that is NOT helped by "doing something," and your personal belief that We Should Obey The Law is not something to force on her.

Jim H.

 

[ZombieHunter]

I share the majority opinion here. You're right, she's in blatant disregard of the law. But the good here greatly outweighs the bad. Granted she has a better chance of winning the lotto than ever using her gun in defense of her students...but that shouldn't keep her from playing.

I also disagree with your claim that this is the same as robbing a bank. On paper maybe, sure...but in reality an armed teacher does not equal an armed robbery.

It really is only a matter of time before someone makes national headlines for illegally carrying and protecting themselves or others from danger (like here in MD, and I DO NOT illegally carry even though in 39 states I'd be welcome to).

 

[scrat]

Same as some of you guys. If i was on that jury. She is innocent. i would not convict. i may be excused from the case. howeve i would not convict. if something were to happen and she were to use her gun to defend herself and her students she would be a hero. Same time then lawmakers would re look at this law.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

As a teacher if she does get caught what is she teaching the kids?

Self preservation...something I adamantly teach my kids myself.

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Eric, why don't you run around with your phone cam photographing people driving in mall parking lots with their seatbelts unbuckled? You could turn in a whole heap of lawbreakers that way if you want to be big brother's watchdog.
Here is someone caught in the middle of a very real situation that we always talk about - especially after something tragic happens - and you are considering ratting her out and ruining her life for doing exactly what we have all wished SOMEONE had been doing every time some twisted perp decided to inflict terror and bloodshed on a bunch of innocents at a school???!!!
Would you run to the nearest mall security ninja to report a family man who you found out was quietly carrying concealed to protect his wife and kids in a posted "no gun zone" shopping mall?
What is your real motivation? Do you know and dislike this person? Is there more here than meets the eye? What about the other teachers she mentioned - do you want to bring them down too?

Very strange...

 

[DKA]

Instead of turning her in, you should contact your congressman and senators and urge them to make it legal for her to carry. If my child were in her class, I would rest easier.

 

[pyle]

Well, I don't have a problem with teachers carrying in school. I wish lawmakers would wake up and get rid of all "victim zones". However, I do have a problem with this woman breaking the law like she is. Is the law wrong? Sure, but that doesn't make it ok for her to do it either. Although I wouldn't turn her in - I don't like what she's doing either.

 

[WSM MAGNUM]

If you think there is a moral obligation to this subject, the moral thing to do about it is, shut up.
Everyone should have the right to carry anytime, anywhere, regardless of what the law says. There should not even be laws on gun rights.

 

[chucrusty]

[ I dont know what I am going to do yet. And to me it is the same as robbing a bank. They are both crimes. moral or other wise. Do we not have a moral obligation to follow the law?/QUOTE]

sure ,go ahead and turn her in,
and when some deranged murderer goes on a shooting spree in your kids school, and you and you're nieghbors are burying your children, you will know you did what was moraly right,
remember it's not just her , but all the teachers carrying will probably be dismissed or at the least bullied into not carrying,
at which point the school will truly be a gun free zone, and ready for a good shooting spree by some wacko.