scope question

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jerryrigger

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So, in my quest for a new mid-long range bolt action rifle, I have come across another stumbling point, my future optics. I understand that the scope might be the worst possible place to skimp as far as money is concerned, but the price on most Leupold scopes out there is just ridiculous. I've been looking into used ones, but I digress...Anyways, would one of these "Super Sniper" scopes I have seen be at all comparable to a Leupold of the same magnification? I think the name sends a bad message, but for the price, if they are good optics I think there is a possibility of putting one on my rifle (which will more than likely be FN's new PSR in 308, or possibly 300WSM). Any help is appreciated, and thanks in advance!
 
jerryrigger,

When I bought my FN SPR, I didn't have enough money left for a decent scope. I ended up buying a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 Mildot scope, and was very happy with it. When I got some more money, I bought a Leupie 3.5-10LR M3 Mildot scope for the rifle, but my Bushnell still serves in backup duty. Great scope for about $200.

Don
 
What do you want to do with the rifle?

Supersniper does get good reviews. However, those that love them will be the first to say that they are not very bright.

That can come into play if you need to use the rifle in twilight conditions such as dusk and dawn.


If you are trying to get the brightest that you can without spending Leupold VX-III or Mark IV type of money, look at:

Bushnell 3200 or 4200
Burris Fullfield II
Nikon Prostaff or Buckmaster

Supersniper will be on the same lines of brightness as you can expect from Millet.


-- John
 
Thanks John. I plan to use the rifle mostly for fun/target-type applications. I honestly can't foresee a need to have a rifle that can shoot effectively to 1000 yards, but...I want to make this a rifle that can. I won't be shooting that far to begin with, so maybe I'll end up with a sort of interim setup that won't require me to put my car up as collateral, and then work my way up from there. As far as brightness is concerned, the SS would be a fine daylight scope, right? I doubt very much that I will do much shooting in low-light/twilight conditions, so if it works fine in daylight maybe that will be the answer.


Edit: As far as a price range goes, even for an interim-type setup, I am willing to go up to the $600 (hell, maybe even $800 if it seems worth it) range-still half(ish) the Leupold price, but I have to believe something that can do the job effectively can be had for this amount. Any suggestions are welcome!
 
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As far as brightness is concerned, the SS would be a fine daylight scope, right?



Absolutely!

Looking for a primarily daytime optic as opposed to twilight one makes life a lot easier (and cheaper) for you.

People have been shooting Supersnipers at 1000 plenty. Don't overlook the Millet TRS-1, either.

At distance, the main thing you want to look for is something that has enough erector internal adjustment to get you out to 1,000 if you are sighted in at 100 yards. My Leupold Mark IV doesn't have it-- and neither does MANY optics.

If you don't have enough adjustment, you will need a 20 MOA canted base. I need to get one for my Mark IV.

But this is is a biggie!-->

SOME optics have so little internal adjustment that you CAN'T zero at 100 yards and still get to 1,000 EVEN with a canted base. One VERY high quality hunting optic that I can think of falls into that situation: The Ziess Conquest.

You REALLY want to shoot for at LEAST 95-100 MOA of internal erector adjustment if you want to be able to get to 1,000 with a 20 MOA canted base. I think that the Millet TRS-1 claims 95 MOA but people are finding it to have around 120 MOA. My Leupold Mark IV has 95 MOA.

Also, to get the most erector movement, you really need to be looking at 30mm tubes as opposed to the 1" tubes.


You may well want to spend some time on these forums:

Opticstalk.com
Snipershide.com
Snipersparadise.com


Good luck!


-- John
 
Great $619 scope...

Leupold Mark II 6-18x40mm Tactical...Cabelas and Midway both sell them.
It is advertised to have 56 MOA of adjustment...mine has 75 MOA...but it only takes 42 MOA (that would equal 84 MOA of total adjustment) at most to get to 1,000 yards. That said, any scope with 56 MOA mounted on a 20 MOA mount will get there just fine...and have a little room to spare.

Mine has proven itself to be worth every penny.
 
Check this link for scope info.

Personally I'm a Mueller fan. I have two on high power rifles and one on a rimfire. They may not have all the bells and whistles but the quality of the glass is great for the price. I have owned or used the ones listed and all are good medium priced scopes.
Bushnell 4200
Burris Fullfield II
Mueller TAC II and Eraticator
 
Good posts by JWarren!

I would add these comments:

1) Internal adjustment range:

The bare minimum adjustment range required of a long range scope will depend entirely upon *your rifle's* exterior ballistics. Rifles such as the .308 will typically require 38 to 44 MOA over the base 100 yard zero to be dialed on at 1k. Other cartridges offer better ballistics, less drop and thus need less internal elevation capacity. The 6.5-284 and .300WinMag often require only 25 to 28 MOA under the same conditions. The ballistics are not an exact number, since variations in *actual* muzzle velocity, crosswinds, ambient temperatures and density altitude will change drop figures at 1k by 1 to 2 MOA or more.

The internal adjustment must be actually measured to determine how far it goes. Many scopes, my Leupold 6.5-20x50 Vari-X-III for example, continue to click, but the reticle ceases movement. Further, some so not offer adjustments that correspond *exactly* to the value stated. Some "1/4 MOA" scope adjustments actually render 1/4" at 100 yard changes, so, there is a built-in 5% error To test the actual movement requires a graduated collimator or actual field testing.

2) Adjustments:

A large portion of the costs of high-end scopes are tied up in good quality accurate and repeatable adjustments. Scopes that do not offer positive reticle movement and must "settle in" are OK for hunting or range work, but have no place in long range precision work. I would rather have slightly lesser glass quality than to have poor adjustments.

3) Eye fatigue:

Glass (image) quality cannot be fully evaluated by simply glancing through the scope. People often say "I've personally done a side-by-side comparison and the image rendered by XYZ is no better than ABC". This statement may be useful to the hunter or casual user, but not necessarily to those who spend extended times behind the scope. The human eye is an amazing and wonderful machine, capable of adapting itself to a wide range of focus and color irregularities. Those shooters who spend extended periods of time behind their glass shooting matches and/or spotting for others will quickly notice the difference in eye fatigue at the end of the day.

*

While the scopes listed above by several of the posters are excellent scope *for the price*, it will be up to the user to determine how much the various performance nuances will mean to their individual use.

If casual use over short periods of time of a target range are the norm, less scope is needed. The demands of high-contrast bulleye shooting on a range for a couple hours at a time and where shots can be walked in to the black are minimal.

If one anticipates long sessions shooting at targets that may be blended with background clutter and where first round hits are critical to satisfaction, it is much more important to invest in good optics.

While it is tempting to consider the couple hundred dollars savings on initial purchase price, this is not the big picture. Sure, there are a LOT of cheaper scopes out there that do "good" jobs, "for the money". Also know that over the life of the scope or shooter, even spending $500 more on a much better scope can amount to numbers like $20/year . . .

My suggestion would be to do some serious consideration of your needs and go from there.

This article is a very good evaluation of low cost scopes: http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/low-priced-long-range-scopes.php

If you ultimately decide a higher quality scope is required, used Leupolds are often available at reasonable cost. The "For Sale" sections of this forum, and the classifieds at LongRangeHunting.Com, Sniper'sHide.Com, BenchrestCentral and other forums often show good buys on VERY good scopes. M1 turrets are the most convenient to use, but the target turrets aren't bad either. Either Mil based or MOA based reticles are great tools for the long range shooter and almost indispensable for tactical matches and field shooting, but the scopes with duplex reticles are often around for far less and still quite useful. I'm sending you a PM with one example of a ($650) Leupold that would be an outstanding deal if it meets your application.

Good luck,
Ed
 
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Jerry, the Leupold vx-III's are being sold at the best prices ever. they are going to be replaced with a new model. i can't see what was wrong with the original but we win. $400.00 for a vx-III is a steal for the scope it is.
 
I really like the new nikon monarchs for the money, also the zeiss conquest are some tough good scopes, but get pricy fast as magnification goes up.
 
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