Scope Reticle Choice for Big Game hunting?

[itgoesboom]

Looking at all the scopes out there, I have noticed so many different reticles available.

Duplex (and it's imitators, nikoplex, v-plex, etc), German #4, wide duplex, mil-dot, Boone and Crocket, Post, etc.

So this just begs the question:

What reticles are the best for hunting (Elk, Deer, Bear and similar)?

What are the purposes of the different reticles? I understand Mil-Dot and B&C, but what are the purposes of the other reticles?

Thanks in advance.

I.G.B.

 

[Art Eatman]

Fine and tapered-fine crosshairs for long-distance varmint hunting in daylight.

Thick post and standard crosshairs for low light.

I like the regular duplex, ever since they first came on the market. I can pick up the thick part in low light and center Bambi in the middle, even if the central crosshiars don't show all that well. And, the central part can be finer than the old days' "standard".

A lot of it is "different strokes for different folks", even for the same sorts of uses...

Art

 

[H&Hhunter]

Ditto on Mr. Eatmans assesment..

I bought a scope about a while back and had it equipped with a B&C reticule.

Guess what I found out..

It ain't nothing but a TRICK PONY!

The B&C reticule the Ballistic plex and all of the other bullet drop compensating reticules except for the Shepard scope system really don't work past 400 yards because the ranging reticules are in the wrong focal plain. I.E. the reticule size changes with scope power adjustment.

I asked the fine folks at Leupold how their system can possibly work if they don't know the B.C. and velocity of the load you are shooting. I was given a long and technical answer which at the time was good enough for this simple minded dolt and I bought one.

The simple no B.S. answer is it doesn't work as advertised, well actually if you read the fine print it does work as advertised as a reticule that provides trajectory "guidance" past 400 yards.

My B&C reticule does just that actually it provides a dead on hold at 200 yards it is way high at 300 it is right on at 400 the 450 marker is right on at 500 and I can't figure out where the 500 yard marker is zeroed but I think it's at about 547 yards or so,, maybe depending on your load?

As my good friend and spiritual advisor Ashley Emerson would say "those preset range reticules ain't nothing but a bunch of tourist rigs."

Now the Shepard scope WORKS it is adjusted for a specific B.C. and velocity and the reticule does not change size with power adjustment.

I hope that helps.

Greg

 

[dakotasin]

of all the reticles i've shot and hunted w/, the leupold fine duplex and zeiss z-plex are the only two i have any use for.

 

[itgoesboom]

Thanks everyone. Duplex, or the wide duplex with the range estimating feature is looking like it will probably be the winner.

H&H,

In regards to the B&C reticule, the way it was explained to me was that it is more of a guide, and that by setting the variable power to certain points you can change the way the trajectory is. You just have to interpret the information, and kinda change which hash mark is for what distance based on your load information.

So when I looked at it and compared it to the numbers that show for the load that I am going to start with (same load that Labgrade used to use for Elk), the Federal Vital Shok with 180gr gamekings, I found that the trajectory was pretty close, on paper atleast, to what I found on the ballistics pages.

It appeared that it should have been close at pretty much all ranges, atleast on paper. (I think it was 8/10's of an inch off at 300, an inch or two off at 400, and a couple inches at 500).

I figure as a guide, it would probably be worth something, but probably nowhere near as accurate as the shephard or the mil-dot systems. Plus who knows how it will actually measure up once I actually get the rifle out there, and if I change loads, it might not be as close as it was when I looked at it.

The problem with shepard, as far as I can see though, is it requires a new scope when you change load data, and that can get downright expensive quickly. Plus it seems to be set-up so that you use one size circle for deer, one for elk, etc.

I think I am just going to avoid the reticules with the various hash marks, and just stick to a duplex.

Right now I am thinking of the Leupold VXIII 2.5-8x36 with duplex or wide duplex with the range estimation feature.

Part of me is saying I should just get the Leupold 3-9x40 Mark 4 PR scope with mil-dots, but I know that really isn't a good idea, and those target knobs will just get caught on everything, and I probably won't be able to use the mil-dots anyways.

Thanks everyone.

I.G.B.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Itgoesboom,

You are correct but the darn thing gets so complicated that a simpleton like me has a hard time figuring it all out.

I guess I need to go read the directions again.

Or maybe you can explain it to me. I shoot a 180Gr TSX @3100 FPS balistic coeffcient of .505. How do I make this work?

Please feel to use big letters, small words, and pictures!

As far as the Shepard goes you are correct you're married to your chosen load. But I tend to find a load that shoots well and then never change it anyway. The other thing I don't like is that the Shepard is a big honking chunk of glass. I like compact scopes.

Greg

 

[scout26]

I understand Mil-Dot and B&C, but what are the purposes of the other reticles?

Thanks in advance.

I.G.B.

Marketing....

 

[itgoesboom]

Itgoesboom,

You are correct but the darn thing gets so complicated that a simpleton like me has a hard time figuring it all out.

I guess I need to go read the directions again.

Or maybe you can explain it to me. I shoot a 180Gr TSX @3100 FPS balistic coeffcient of .505. How do I make this work?

Please feel to use big letters, small words, and pictures!

As far as the Shepard goes you are correct you're married to your chosen load. But I tend to find a load that shoots well and then never change it anyway. The other thing I don't like is that the Shepard is a big honking chunk of glass. I like compact scopes.

Greg

H&H,

Give me a few minutes to finish some stuff up, and I will take a look and see what I can see. Last night when I ran the numbers for my load, it about made smoke come out of my ears.

And that is a load that closely matched what Leupold had set up.

I.G.B.

 

[itgoesboom]

H&H,

I edited this, so it will make more sense. I was writing as I was going along, and it just got a little confusing.

On the scope there are 2 triangles, one small, and one large. They are on the zoom ring, and match up with a certain power. You can set up one load for the small triangle, one for the large, and it will help get you close.

Yours would be set to the small triangle on the zoom ring.

Since your ballistics don't really match up as well to what Leupold did, I have found 2 ways of making it work.

Way #1. Use the center as your 200 yard zero, and each hash mark below as your 300, 400, 450 and 500 aiming point, and just correct your POA knowing that they are off a bit.

So, if you zero at 200 yards;

1st hash mark is your 300 yard POA, but will put you 1" high at 300 yards.
2nd hash mark is your 400 yard POA, but will put you 4" high at 400 yards.
3rd hash mark is your 450 yard POA, but will also put you 4" high at 450 yards.
4th hash mark is your 500 yard POA, but will put you 6" high at 500 yards.

That's close, but not real close.

So option number 2 is to still zero at 200 yards, but know your hash marks as slighly different than Leupold shows them.

So, you zero @ 200 yards;

1st hash mark will put you dead on at 310 yards.
2nd hash mark will put you dead on at 418 yards (420 is close enough).
3rd hash mark will put you dead on at 473 yards (call it 475)
4th hash mark will put you dead on at 527 yards (call it 525).

Thats probably the simplest way to put it.

Now for my load, that I am going to start out with.

I bought some Federal Vital Shok 180gr Sierra Gamekings, ballistic co-efficient of .501, going 2700 fps.

So if I was using the large triangle on the zoom ring, here is how, theorettically it would look:

200 yard zero
.5" High @ 300 yards.
1.5" high @ 400 yards.
2.4" high @ 450 yards.
3.25" high @ 500 yards.

Thats pretty darn close, and I think we can agree that is close enough for hunting.

Hope this helps.

I.G.B.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Itgoesboom,

Thank you that does clear it up a bit. One question though. Where do you find and or how did you figure this out?


It is probably right there in front of somewhere huh?

Thanks

Greg

 

[itgoesboom]

Itgoesboom,

Thank you that does clear it up a bit. One question though. Where do you find and or how did you figure this out?


It is probably right there in front of somewhere huh?

Thanks

Greg

Greg,

The trajectory information I got by plugging your numbers into Norma's ballistics page, which opens a java page. You can define whatever you want there, ballistic co-efficient, velocity, zero range, etc.

That page is HERE

The information on the Leupold B&C Reticule is at their site, but you kinda have to search a little bit for it. I would think that since it is an extra cost option, that they would put it up in bold right where everyone would see it and check it out, but they don't.

Instead it is near the bottom left of their main hunting page. HERE

If you go there, it gives you the option to run a pop-up "interactive training". It has all the numbers, and how to use it there. The reps that I talked to at the sportsmans show a couple weeks ago didn't even know how to use it, it seemed, so I had to search it out on my own.

When you get to the screen with the chart, you can click on that and it will expand it into a full-size window to make it easier to read. But to save time, I copied the link for ya.

HERE

This gives you the numbers that line up with the hash marks, so you can cross refrence them to the ballistics table set up for your rifle.

It seems like a neat little system, and I played with another one of the scopes with it tonight, but I think I am going to pass. Art gave a very good reason for me to go with the duplex, so I think I will do that.

Hope this helps.

I.G.B.

 

[Ankeny]

I dial elevation and hold windage. But if a person wants to use the B&C the reticle can be very useful of you use Exbal, zero at 200, sight in at the longest distance you intend to shoot with the bottom hash mark, then work in reverse. Using that method the major errors occur at the closest distances where they have the least impact.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I.G.B.

Thanks I don't feel quite so stupid now!

Greg

 

[HSMITH]

I like the regular Leupold Duplex, I spend some time in the field mainly looking at cow elk and does with it. Ranging them and then measuring them with the scope at different powers provides me with a damn good range finder RIGHT NOW. If it is far enough that my method won't work then it is far enough that I have PLENTY of time to look the shot over, range them, estimate the wind, get a good rest, and take the shot. I might be missing something, but it works for me. Knock on wood but I have never lost a deer or elk I have shot at and that includes at least 30 animals and distances from 20 yards to just under 500 yards. Any further than 300 yards and 99% of the time you need to learn to hunt, but sometimes circumstances will push you out further.

 

[H&Hhunter]

HS,

It's worked for me forever as well. I just got cute here a while back. I don't know who I'm kidding as 99.9% of my shoots at big game are under 300 yards as well.

I guess I got sucked in with a bad case of magnumitis and cross canyon, delusional, fever.

Oh wait I remember what it was. It was the lure of the mythical "sheep" rifle.

I go through this about once every decade.

It must be a holdover from my starry eyed youth.

 

[HSMITH]

I know what you mean H&H. I get magnumitis too, and still want a 340 Weatherby even though I really don't need it by any stretch.

 

[45crittergitter]

I like the heavy duplex enough to send scopes back and pay to have them installed.