Scopes for Tactical Use: Fixed or Variable Power Opinions?

[sellmarkguy]

I am toying w/ the idea of ditching my Burris FF 3-9
in favor of a Fixed power / Mil dot scope for my
.308 SemiAuto.
Not something as high power mag as a 'Super Sniper 10x42',
but something around a 3 or 4.
I can holdover using mil dots as BDCs. I am just not enamored
with variable power scopes at this time.
Why change the scope setting when some guys can hit at distance just fine
without max power?

My concept is that of a Squad Marksman type of system
with max distance shots being made at 500 or 600 yards.

Has anyone here done the same with their rifle, that is, go from
variable to fixed because of ridiculous POI changes with power changes?

 

[Cop Bob]

Hummm

I have had experience with both fixed and variables.. personally I like by 4.5X14 IR Leupold, I also had a Bausch & Lomb fall into my hand on a trade that is a comparable scope to the Leupold, and I think I like some of the on Bausch features better.. all are mil dots, all have IR's but the turrets are more positive on the Bausch, and I like the way the zero indicators on the Bausch & Lomb work without having to go to aftermarket or factory offered upgrades by Leupold for the same thing.

I have had a 10X fixed Unertl and it was a great piece of glass, but I'm lazy and I like the options of quick target acquisition with lower power settings at short ranges, and to be able to do a little better peeking up at 14X, however when it comes time to pull the trigger, I'm usually rolled back to 10X.. Most all MIL dot scopes are etched for accurate range calculations at 10X

But this is why Baskin and Robbins carries 31 Flavors, you can get anything you like..

 

[TonyAngel]

How big are the targets that you are going to be shooting at. It seems that what you think you want is only theoretical at this point. Personally, I wouldn't put a fixed 4X on a .308 and quite frankly, I would consider something in the neighborhood of the 10X42 to be about in the right range for a .308.

If you are going to be shooting at man sized targets the 10X should get you out there pretty well. If you are talking about shooting at MOA size targets, you might want more magnification.

You say that you're using a 3-9X now. On what magnification are you usually running it when you shoot?

My personal favorite scope to fill the sort of role that you are describing is a Nightforce 2.5-10X32.

 

[joed]

I've had all kinds of scopes. My favorites are the fixed power 24x as I have more of those then anything else. I even have one 36x but that is to high in my opinion.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

Can you clarify what you mean by having a POI shift with change in magnification? If you are having a POI shift at the crosshairs, you have a damaged or crap scope. If you are referring to using the mil-dots or hash marks as holdover points, you need to consider the fact that you have a Second Focal Plane scope. FFP scopes will not have that issue, and it may be in your best interests to get a FFP scope if you prefer to use hold-overs.
I would also recommend that if you are looking at using holdovers exclusively, that you consider getting a scope with a Horus reticle.

On my DMR setup, I actually went from a fixed magnification 4x TA01 ACOG to a variable magnification optic. I got sick of having to focus on close range targets and then on long distance targets. There's nothing that says you have a have large magnification range like 3-9x. Look into a 1-4x, 1-5x, 1.5-5x, or 1.5-6x (depending on scope manufacturer and model). Many of these scopes will have BDC reticles that will suit you well.

Also, what is your budget?

 

[TonyAngel]

Can you clarify what you mean by having a POI shift with change in magnification? If you are having a POI shift at the crosshairs, you have a damaged or crap scope. If you are referring to using the mil-dots or hash marks as holdover points, you need to consider the fact that you have a Second Focal Plane scope. FFP scopes will not have that issue, and it may be in your best interests to get a FFP scope if you prefer to use hold-overs.
I would also recommend that if you are looking at using holdovers exclusively, that you consider getting a scope with a Horus reticle.

On my DMR setup, I actually went from a fixed magnification 4x TA01 ACOG to a variable magnification optic. I got sick of having to focus on close range targets and then on long distance targets. There's nothing that says you have a have large magnification range like 3-9x. Look into a 1-4x, 1-5x, 1.5-5x, or 1.5-6x (depending on scope manufacturer and model). Many of these scopes will have BDC reticles that will suit you well.

Also, what is your budget?

Huh?

In the end, I really think that you'll be handicapping that .308 by putting a 4X on it. Most guys that I know running a DMR type of rig are running something around a 2.5-10X. Of course, my opinion is based on my belief that a .308 is not for anything under 100 yards. What flavor of .308 semi are you running?

 

[d2wing]

I went from 4-12 to 1-4.5 because in close cover it tool too much time to find the target with the higher power scope. I also have a 2-7 to replace a
3-9 on another rifle. I am think about going to a red dot sight as well for the same reason. A lower power fixed scope should be fine, depending on conditions, if you're shooting at targets or wild game, and your vision.

 

[M1key]

Army issue scopes for the FN-FAL were Hensoldt/Wetzler 4 power. Good enough for me.

M

 

[Tikka Lover]

I think it is totally opinion. How precise do you want to be with your shot placement? Me personally, 4X at 5-600 yards is not even close to enough magnification, I would just be aiming at the middle of the target instead of the center of the bullseye. Heck, I would like more magnification even at 100 yards.

 

[TonyAngel]

Yeah, a big determining factor in how much magnification you need depends on how precise you want to get. There just ain't no way that I could hit a MOA size target at 400 yards with a 4X scope. I'm sure that there are some that can, but I ain't one of those people.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

I had a 4x TA01 ACOG on my DMR. Any shots over 400m were really Minute-of-Man shots, not MOA. A 500yd shot with a 4x scope will visually appear to be the same as a 125yd shot with 1x/no magnification. A 600yd target will appear to be 150yds away under the same principle.

A very handy and fun thing to do is to find objects that are at various distances of 50yds, 100yds, 150yds, etc, or set up paper targets on the range at 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 200, etc. at the range (or however you want to). Take a piece of paper and roll it up into a tube, and then look through the tube at the targets (you can also use a 1x scope). Figure out the maximum range that you can look at a target and feel comfortable about shooting accurately at it (and hitting where you want to). Then take the farthest distance that you will be REGULARLY shooting. Take the farthest distance, and then divide it by the max range you determined with your tube observation and that should be your minimum magnification for a fixed power optic.
For instance, let's say for now that 500yds is the farthest that you will be consistently shooting. When you were looking through your tube, you determined that 125yds was the farthest that you could comfortably see and shoot at. 500/125=4. 4x is the lowest magnification you should purchase. So, a 4x, 5.5x or 6x fixed scope would be in order, or that's the top magnification for a variable scope (supposing you want as low of magnification as possible).

Or just invest in a FFP scope so that your subtensions are always in correct proportion to your target, ensuring that you can do holdovers at any magnification. US Optics SN-4S and SN-4, as well as the Vortex Razor HD 1-4x come to mind.

 

[Norrick]

I have a variable, and I always leave it on max power, but I'm always on a bench. I can see hunting scenarios where I'd want to crank the power down for faster acquisition.

IDK maybe some soldiers/ex-soldiers can chime in on if its the same in combat or not.

 

[dnthmn]

I had a 4x TA01 ACOG on my DMR. Any shots over 400m were really Minute-of-Man shots, not MOA. A 500yd shot with a 4x scope will visually appear to be the same as a 125yd shot with 1x/no magnification. A 600yd target will appear to be 150yds away under the same principle.

A very handy and fun thing to do is to find objects that are at various distances of 50yds, 100yds, 150yds, etc, or set up paper targets on the range at 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 200, etc. at the range (or however you want to). Take a piece of paper and roll it up into a tube, and then look through the tube at the targets (you can also use a 1x scope). Figure out the maximum range that you can look at a target and feel comfortable about shooting accurately at it (and hitting where you want to). Then take the farthest distance that you will be REGULARLY shooting. Take the farthest distance, and then divide it by the max range you determined with your tube observation and that should be your minimum magnification for a fixed power optic.
For instance, let's say for now that 500yds is the farthest that you will be consistently shooting. When you were looking through your tube, you determined that 125yds was the farthest that you could comfortably see and shoot at. 500/125=4. 4x is the lowest magnification you should purchase. So, a 4x, 5.5x or 6x fixed scope would be in order, or that's the top magnification for a variable scope (supposing you want as low of magnification as possible).

Or just invest in a FFP scope so that your subtensions are always in correct proportion to your target, ensuring that you can do holdovers at any magnification. US Optics SN-4S and SN-4, as well as the Vortex Razor HD 1-4x come to mind.

This is a really good idea that I've never heard of. Thanks! I'll have to try it out next time I'm at the range. This is why these forums are awesome.

 

[Crowcifier666]

For "tactical" use? Fixed (probably on the low side) power. If you're getting "tactical", you probably want to be quick on target. Variable power seems like it might screw your shot if you've got it way cranked in and need a quick hit. Find a magnification happy medium for your application, and practice!

 

[sellmarkguy]

On what magnification are you usually running it when you shoot?

Usually 3 power...

How precise do you want to be with your shot placement?

8 - 10 inch groups at 500 yards

Also, what is your budget?

Unfortunately, not very high right now. I work for an optics manufacturer so I have a lot of affordable choices.

I went from 4-12 to 1-4.5 because in close cover it tool too much time to find the target with the higher power scope

Yes and at higher power settings, the target can walk out of your FOV too easily.

TonyAng, I def. intend on getting an FFP scope. I believe that is the prob. I am having. My SFP Burris shifts my shots an inch for each power setting that I move it.
I am going to go with a 1.5 - 5 power FFP scope.

it took too much time to find the target with the higher power scope.

That is another valid issue to consider. 5X should fit the bill perfectly!

Thanks to all who responded. You guys are a big help.

 

[lmccrock]

Has anyone here done the same with their rifle, that is, go from variable to fixed because of ridiculous POI changes with power change

A good variable scope will not change POI when the power changes, regardless of SFP vs. FFP.

I have an IOR Valdada 1.1x4 for 3gun (FFP!), and I shoot it from a few feet to hundreds of yards, sometimes with consecutive shots. A fixed low power works for some, but I do not mind cranking it, and I leave it on low power for close range targets. In 3gun, FOV is important, and as was said, lower power is better for that.

I work for an optics manufacturer so I have a lot of affordable choices.

What other choices? 1.5-5x was what I started with, but it was a Simmons shotgun scope - good for 3gun, but the clicks were 1 MOA and hard to get on target at distance. So be sure the adjustments are ok.

Lee