Seeking AR15 Advice

[holdencm9]

I will second the Palmetto State suggestion, and not only if you are just going for a kit from them. I bought a 16" carbine from them for $600 and have been very pleased. I really don't think I'll need anything more for my needs, and your needs seem similar. They also have 20" barrels if you are interested in longer-range. They also have some setups with a Geissele 2-stage 4.5# trigger included. I also looked at Spikes, DPMS, Stag, and a host of others, but the PSA just felt like the right specs for the right price at the right time.

Honestly, there has been a ton of great advice already, but my advice (as another relative newb to AR's), just buy one preassembled, and do it now before you change your mind, and before prices start climbing! I think a lot of people (myself included) tend to overanalyze every little thing.

From what I gather, building an AR is like brewing your own beer. It doesn't save much money overall, and unless you are REAL picky about what you want, you can probably find something to satisfy your needs straight off the shelf. Sure, there is something very satisfying about DIY, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who has no experience and/or is still not settled on what they like.

 

[d80buckeye]

All of the advice has been fantastic. Unless I can find a solid lower/upper combination I'll end up going manufacturer built. With that being said the wife started hinting at baby #2 so I've only got a couple of months to piss her off with a "surprise" before we get "surprised" =P

 

[goon]

Its highly suggested you learn on an entry level rifle, then work your way up to the fancy-pants stuff like BCM and DD

Why?
If it's in your budget, why not buy one of the best rifles you can afford?

 

[taliv]

Its highly suggested you learn on an entry level rifle, then work your way up to the fancy-pants stuff like BCM and DD

learn what? how to clear malfunctions?

none of the instructors i know suggest buying hobby guns to save money for training. In fact, they will tell you that bringing "entry level" guns to a class will not only interfere with your training, it will slow the rest of the class down as well.

 

[d80buckeye]

Boys... Point taken... Let's kill the flaming now. I agree with the fact dirt cheap isn't the way to go for a firearm much like tools or a car.

To get back to the point I'm just trying to find that balance between both. BCM apparently doesn't like to offer prices on their site for complete rifles and The Daniels is out of my price range.

 

[chad1043]

d80, Your gonna get all kinds of advice. Sort through them and then make a wise decision. I run a Spikes Upper. It does what I want it to. Have fun reading.

 

[FlyinBryan]

ar's are some funny animals. ive had the "golden standard" as well as some that get bashed terribly.

it sounds snarky, but its not meant that way,,, but im glad i found the two bushmasters i have now before i found this website.

from what ive read here i should be incredible, world class in fact, at clearing malfunctions, but in 21,000+ rounds now between the two ive yet to get a single rounds worth of practice. not even a single jab at the forward assist.

i hear a lot "ya, but if you ever try to run them hard, like a carbine course, stuff will start failing",,,,,,,,

maybe so, ive never attended a carbine course, but i have intentionally dogged the crap out of them lately. our last trip with them was 2060 rounds between the 2 rifles in less than 1 day in east texas sugar sand. we had to stop several times until the aluminum hand gaurds were cool enough to touch again. when we couldnt wait we cooled them with water from the bottom of the ice chests.

21,000 rounds and im told i should never trust them should my life depend on their reliable operation.

lol, ok.

EDIT: I am not suggesting that you go buy bushmasters. mine are pretty old and maybe they aint made the same anymore, in fact i know they are not.

 

[d80buckeye]

So I think I'm getting closer. I started leaning towards the PSA kits and have found the following two uppers as they both have the 20" & 1/7 i was looking for:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/2307.php ($529)
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2278.php ($409)

It looks like the $120 difference is for free a floating rail and a low-profile gas block. I like the look of the more expensive upper but am curious if there is a reliability or quality difference between the two different gas blocks.

 

[Welding Rod]

I would get a 20" BCM Gov upper, w/ bolt and charge handle. Buy some RRA rifle length plastic handguards and their (or someone else's) lower with a 2 stage trigger and CTR stock. Either a BCM carry handle or maybe a DD A1.5 rear sight.

Personally I am a big fan of rifle length ARs. I like the room for the left hand, the increased sight radius, and the reduced operating pressure.

 

[LKB3rd]

I scanned and it looks like no one elaborated on the ban info. The federal assault weapon ban expired. However, there are several states that still have state bans, so unless you live in one of those states, don't worry about pre/post ban.
If you do live in a ban state, you'll either need a ban compliant AR, or a preban lower to get the standard features.

 

[benzy2]

Don't worry much about rifle twist. 1:9 will stabilize most anything you would load to fit into a magazine. A 1:8 may be a little more assuring at the absolute upper end but 1:7 is only needed for tracers and bullets too long to fit in a mag. 1:7 will handle most everything just fine as well but I don't think any civilian shooting something other than the 600 yard line of a service rifle match would find a fault with a 1:9 twist. Take the twist that comes on the barrel you like and be done with that issue.

Lots of good options. Some options better for specific uses. Mil spec is what it is. You have to know why a spec is in place and if it has any relevance to your shooting. Long range target practice isn't what the mil spec is designed about. Some things like bolt testing are good for most anyone, but others can be neutral or drawbacks. When someone suggests a given rifle you have to look at what they use it for to be able to place an amount of value on what they say.

Take the comment above about carbine classes. For someone who fights for a living with their rifle a carbine class may be a good measure for a rifles worth. A service rifle shooter doesn't want practically any option that the "fighter" wanted. Someone who varmint hunts is different yet and then they causal shooter is different yet. Take Oly Arms for example. They have gained a reputation online as pure junk yet a lot of these rifles shoot very very accurately. Sure, they may have a higher failure rate than brands that are more respected online but Imdoubt much near their price range could shoot better than the older Oly rifles I've seen.

Point is to figure exactly what you want to do with the rifle, figure out what features you want and what to avoid, and buy from what's available with the features you want. Don't listen to every suggestion for every rifle as they are rifles that fit the person respondings uses best, not necessarily yours.

 

[helotaxi]

The beauty of the AR platform is that you can make it your rifle. Don't like something? Swap it out. Some basic tools and a little research will give you all the info you need to tear the thing down and rebuild it, repair parts that wear or swap out nearly any part on the rifle.

While there is a wealth of knowledge on ar15.com and m4carbine.net, neither are particularly friendly and both are eat up with the "mil-spec groupies" to use as polite a term as I could think of. In the opinion of way too many on both of those sites, the AR15 is only any good if it is just like what is being carried in combat, even if the owner (whose opinion is the only one that matters) has no intention of every taking it into harm's way. You'll see Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT and Noveske (even though Noveske doesn't use mil-spec barrels) recommended regardless of the intended use of the rifle.

I think that you're on the right path. PSA is putting out a quality product. I wouldn't worry about the difference between the gas blocks. For all intents and purposes, there is no functional difference other than the standard style houses the front sight. Something to consider is keeping the standard front sight base and replacing the standard handguards with a free-float tube. If you have the tools, or know someone who does, this can be done for very little money. It allows you to keep a reliable front sight and still have the benefits of a free float at longer range. You won't notice the front sight in the scope if you decide to add one later. Your thoughts about an A4 (flat-top) upper are right on as well. You can add a removable carry handle or rear irons to the flat-top, you cannot correctly mount a scope to a fixed carry handle.

ARs are addictive. You've been warned. I'm working on building #7 right now and #8 is already on the drawing board.

 

[highpower]

I've been trying to stay out of this discussion, but I finally thought I'd put in my .02 worth.

First, let me say that I have been shooting and then building AR15's since the early 70's. This doesn't make me an expert, but it does give me a fair amount of perspective on the platform.

This is truly a golden time to be building/shooting these rifles as there has never been more options available to the shooter.

Don't listen to the equipment snobs out there. They feel that you have to spend huge amounts of money to have a decent rifle. Sure, the top end manufactures may use "better' parts, but better for what? The average person just isn't going to shoot enough to wear one out.

I have a AR15-A2 that I built out of a mix of surplus parts, a PWA lower and a Wilson match barrel that took me all the way to Master Class in NRA highpower competitions back in the early 90's. I really can't say how many rounds have been through that rifle, but lets just say it's a bunch. It doesn't have any of the latest gizmos on it but I really like that rifle and I will never part with it.

I just built a carbine on a PSA kit + a PSA lower and I couldn't be any more pleased with it. All the parts fit together without and drama and when I took it to the range it shot everything I put through it with no problems and was accurate to boot. In the end, that is all I ask of my guns.

 

[chad1043]

Great post HP. Thanks. Posts like that makes this forum one of the best.