Honest Opinions On SBR AR15's

[JCook5003]

Hey guys-

Due to recent life changes (divorce) I no longer have to get spousal approval to buy guns and parts. With that in mind I've always wanted an AR, so I figure why not now?

I've been contemplating building a 11.5" - 12.5" SBR in 5.56/223. My question is for those folks that own SBR AR15's are they really that much more handy and useful than a 16" upper? $200 would buy me a lot of accessories or ammo......

Also given the current political climate I'm not sure any registered firearm is a good idea, but thats just the conspiracy theorist/patriot in me.....

So what's your guys thoughts on SBR's vs 16" uppers? As always a good thread must have pictures....I would especially like a length comparison picture of a 12.5 or 11.5 upper and a 16" upper assembled on a rifle side by side.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[TexasRifleman]

I have had an 11.5" build for many years now. It's been 100% reliable both with a suppressor and without.

You asked for honest.... They are completely and totally unbelievably loud without a suppressor. I use a Noveske flash hider and that helps direct the noise and blast forward somewhat, but it's still unreal.

So, if you plan to use it for any defensive purposes I'd consider a suppressor mandatory. Seriously, they are that loud. And the blast and fireball get pretty annoying after a while.

I took a 2 day carbine class with mine, unsuppressed, and by the end of the thing, 1000 rounds, I was absolutely sick of firing the weapon.

They are quite fun to shoot, very handy for sure, and can be built to be 100% reliable, but LOUD

 

[H2O MAN]

Josh, I suggest the 11.5" barrel and recommend a complete Sabre Defense factory SBR (Short Barrel Rifle) from Polite Society, Inc.
The guns already registered as SBRs. No need to have your receiver engraved and registered on a Form 1. They will transfer to you on a Form 4.

Definitely consider adding a sound suppressor to the package. SBRs & suppressors are meant for each other.

Ask for Mark.

 

[taliv]

pretty much what texas said. my 11.5" sits atop a full-auto lower, so it's just LOUD faster. sure is handy though.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

My question is for those folks that own SBR AR15's are they really that much more handy and useful than a 16" upper?

While not directly responsive to your question, my tangential opinion is that going less than 14.5" for a 5.56x45 is silly and a bit counterproductive due to the massive velocity loss and muzzle blast. Nothing against SBRs, but they should be in a bigger bore that loses less velocity, such as a pistol caliber (9x19, .45 acp, etc.), or maybe something like the Russian 9x39mm, or a dedicated subsonic like .300 whisper, .338 spectre, or .500 phantom, or a big bore like .50 Beowulf or .458 soccom.

 

[briansmithwins]

I like my SBR but don't see the point of it with 5.56.

You just loose a whole bunch of velocity, possibly induce reliability issues, and they are flippen' loud.

Save the stamp for something that works better as a SBR, like my Uzi. BSW

 

[Zak Smith]

Useful?

It's almost as useful as a 16" AR-15, but a little more handy. However, I think that most people do not buy these for their actual utility.

I do like the SBR format for a 100% suppressed carbine.

Be aware that if you travel out of state with your SBR, you need to have ATF forms 5320.20 filed for every destination state.


............... Larger version of above photo.

............... Larger version of above photo.

 

[HorseSoldier]

If you're really going to be hopping in and out of vehicles a lot and/or doing a lot of work inside a building, dropping a few inches off the barrel is pretty nice -- about on par with the increased maneuverability you get going from an M16 to an M4.

For the average civilian shooter, I think the utility isn't there so much, but the cool factor and "because I want one" factor is completely legitimate to my thinking, so I'd say go for it if you've got the $$$ for one and want one.

 

[pirate]

I like mine, it is loud and in your face, fun to shoot, it is a MAN toy!!
if noise is a problem, get better ear protection or a bb gun.
Get one!

 

[aquapong]

Like has been stated above, they are very loud. The reduced length of the barrel also takes some velocity off of the 223. The round was designed so that optimal performance requires the bullet to get above 2700fps. Any slower and there's no guarantee it will tumble and fragment (which causes most of the damage).

Sure they look badass and make a great conversation piece, but I just can't bring myself to spend that much money on a firearm that is less effective than its full size counterpart.

 

[JCook5003]

Guys-

This was exactly the conversation I wanted to get started, I definatley see both sides of the arguement now. SBR - Loud, should be supressed (a ton more money), velocity loss etc. 16" Upper - just as nice, no super cool wow factor, for what I want just as effective and useful.

Perhaps as stated above I should start shopping for an Uzi, I've always wanted one.....now theres a cool SBR.....or a dedicated 9mm SBR AR.

 

[mrnkc130]

I love the SBR in 5.56 is stupid..doesnt work very well...you lose velocity...arguement, most commonly used by people who have never actually fired one. They are made for a specific purpose, just like many guns are. They have thier niche, just because it isnt yours doesnt mean its silly. Look around and see how many places you can find ar barrels under 16 inches, hardly catering to the "its a cool toy" group i'd say...

 

[benEzra]

If you want light and handy without the SBR hassle, you could go with a 14.5" pencil barrel with a permanently attached Smith Vortex flash suppressor for a 16.1" OAL. Still louder than a 16" middy (my personal favorite config) but handier. I believe multiple vendors sell uppers in that configuration.

 

[nicholst55]

So, what can would y'all recommend for an SBR 5.56 AR-15? I definitely see one in my future, to accompany my 9mm SBR.

 

[everallm]

Don't just restrict yourself to the AR15 platform if you want an SBR

Robinson Arms sell the XCR rifle in a Standard, Mini and a Micro form in 5.56, 6.8SPC and 7.62x39 all the way down to a 7" barrel if that's what you want.......

Piston not DI, no buffer tube so side folder stock if you want it even shorter.

Same receiver for the whole range so if you decide you want to go shorter or longer or different caliber, just get the swap kit.

http://www.robarm.com/resources/products/xcrlmicro/index.aspx

 

[CleverNickname]

Don't limit yourself to 5.56mm. I have a dedicated .22LR AR SBR built around a 7"
Kuehl barrel and a YHM Wraith suppressor. With the suppressor attached It's still a couple inches shorter than a title I carbine and is a joy to shoot.

 

[pirate]

get a Rock River lower with a short Ace stock and a rock river 10 1/2" pistol upper. it will work 100% reliably with steel cased ammo and you can do it for under $1,000.00 plus the tax stamp.

forget all the fancy gew gaws, you don't need them, only a $10.00 sling then just load up on ammo and mags for a fun day at the range.

the gun is great for a day at the range blasting cans etc, if you plan on invading Iwo Jima get a FAL in .308!!!

 

[ny32182]

One version of the velocity argument is that you lose a lot compared to a full size rifle, and that is true.

The flip side is that a .223 from a short barrel still has WAY more energy and range than a subgun/pistol cal carbine of roughly the same size, like, say, an MP5.

I have an LMT 10.5" rifle (MK18 upper), and it has run 100% (I have not beat on it super hard however). It is definitely higher strung than longer ARs, and is super loud, but I am glad I got it. I may do one or two more SBRs at some point in the future.

If this is your first or only AR, I would probably not recommend an SBR due to the extra paperwork hassle and travel restrictions. It is a bit of a "niche" rifle especially if you live near a state line like I do.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Like has been stated above, they are very loud. The reduced length of the barrel also takes some velocity off of the 223. The round was designed so that optimal performance requires the bullet to get above 2700fps. Any slower and there's no guarantee it will tumble and fragment (which causes most of the damage).

For serious work, a civilian with an SBR wouldn't be limited to military FMJ ammo, so the whole discussion of fragmentation velocity and such doesn't mean nearly as much as it might for military users.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Now a 7" XCR in 9x39 russkie would be pretty slick - suppressed of course.

To Summarize, Here are calibers I'd consider SBRing, which of course can be suppressed or not, but are all good candidates for suppression as well, particularly the rimfire and pistol calibers
.22lr
9x19mm
.40 S&W
10mm auto
.45 acp & .45 Super
.45 Win Mag
9x39 russian & similar
.300 Whisper / Fireball
.338 Whisper / Spectre
.500 Whisper / Phantom
.458 soccom & similar
.50 beowulf & similar
.50 GI
.50 AE

The bigger & bigger the bore (ceteris paribus), and the less and less "overbore" ratio (ceteris paribus) the cartridge is, the less and less that shortened barrel length, coming down from 16-20", diminishes relative performance.