seeking M1 garand information

[firepig3]

I was referred to this forum by several gun savvy fellows.

I was recently gifted an M1 garand and was hoping to track down some of the history on this particular rifle.

I am unfamiliar with the maker of this rifle, Century International Arms. stamped on the left side at the forward portion of what I would call the bolt housing, (working on learning proper nomenclature) is:

The weapon Serial #
M-1 rifle Cal 30-06
Made in the USA by CAI ST Albans, VT

also stamped into the stalk are two seperate numbers on the bottom near the butt. One is a 4 digit and the other a 7.

included in the case was the flap to the box it came in from BIG 5. it says the condition is excellent. and has a price tag of 599.00

Any info would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to figure out how to post pics of the rifle as I'm sure that would be better information than my description

 

[cdrt]

From my old Blue Book. Don't know if they're still in business.

"Century Int. Arms imports a variety of used military rifles and pistols, including...., M1 Carbines/Garands and various WW I and WW II used military pistols".

My Blue Book from 1994 listed the retail on your M1 Garand at $350 and indicated that importation had been discontinued. They were arsenal repaired rifles. Sounds like they made have stamped their name over the original mfg or it might be a new cast receiver with salvaged GI parts.

CIA was located at P.O. Box 714, St. Albans, VT 05478. Fax 802-527-0470.

 

[firepig3]

cdrt,

thanks for the info and the link.

 

[hso]

Firepig,

Welcome to THR.

Your CIA Garand is not a US military rifle. It is a recent production piece from Century. As long as the rifle runs and is accurate enough to satisfy you and you take it out and enjoy shooting it don't let anyone look down on it for not being a Springfield or Winchester or International Harvester or HR.

I would advise any members tempted to be critical of our new member's rifle to remember this is The High Road.

 

[Horrido]

First of all, I am not a firearms expert, nor an expert on the M1 Garand Rifle. I do own four Garands: one M1D, built up with original parts and M84 scope, one M1C, built up with repo Griffin and Howe scope mount and original Kolmorgan scope, one new made M1 Garand Springfield Armory in 7.62X51 NATO (.308 cal.), and one M1D original DCM (CMP) with all documentation ( I do not shoot this one or even load enbloc clip). The others are shooters.

Ok. Now the maker of your M1 Garand is not correct. Only manufactures of the M1 Garand Rifle were: Springfield (Primary), Winchester; only during WWII, Harrington & Richardson (H&R), International Harvaster; up to 1957, and Springfield produced a small quanity after WWII. However, H&R and International Harvaster were the main contractors. Anyway, the Manufacture that you typed is probably an importer. I have one that the serial numbers were removed and replaced with Federal Ordnance numbers and the word FEDERAL ORDNANCE (big at one time here in California). However, it's a later model, stamped trigger guard as opposed to milled, etc.

Disassemble the rifle and see what it says on barrel. look at bolt and other parts and see if you can detect SA or other letters that may give you a clue as to the maker. However, this is not always a sure fire method, because M1s were subject to rebuilds after the war, and parts on hand were used from different manufactures. Also, a lot of M1s that were sent to Denmark, South Korea, Italy, etc., were latter sent back and either rebuilt or released to the civilian market. As far as the marks on the butt stock, that could be rack numbers, etc. An inspector's cartouch would be helpful, however, again, rifle could have been restocked.

Here is a site that may help you: www.armscollector.com, plus just type in M1 Garand in Google and you will get a ton of sites that will help in all aspects of the M1 Garand Rifle. Now, if the serial number looks original, has not been tampered with, this site may help you. On the other hand, if they have been altered by the importer: serial number sluthing won't help. In closing, you are lucky. You have a piece of history and a fine military rifle. Take care of it and watch what you fire. I would suggest staying away from hunting ammo. Reserve that for bolt actions. There is plenty of military stuff out there.

Side note: Check out Scott Duff on the internet, also you might want to pick up a copy of:M1 GARAND 1936 to 1957, NORTH CAPE GROUP Publishers. I am sure you could get this through AMAZON.COM

 

[John Gault]

hso wrote: this is The High Road

Amen. This is the weapon of choice for Navy Seals serving in a sniper role conducting MIOs (Maritime Interdiction Operations), btw. Brands mean little. I am envious, firepig, of your treasure. I'll purchase the ammo if you let us play with it at the range... deal?

 

[firepig3]

thanks for your help fellas, and thanks for the welcome hso.

I will definitely dig deeper into the somewhat mysterious origin of this particular M1.

I have never been a collector of weapons that sit in my case. All of mine are shooters. I am really looking forward to taking the M1 out and giving it a go.

John, if you ever make it out to Oregon I'll buy the ammo myself and we'll shoot it up

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

This sounds like it was built from parts on a Century manufactured receiver. These were pretty common a few years ago when the Danish parts kits were still available. Century has imported parts kits and assembled them on Century built receivers for several rifles in the past (as well as some currently) including the M1, CETME, L1A1, FAL, and AK-47 variants. Their quality varies widely, some being pretty good, some plain awful (My Century built AK folder belongs in the latter category--it's really bad).

I just checked Century's website, and it looks like the receivers are no longer being manufactured. This is not surprising, since Garand parts kits have not generally been available since about 2001-2002.

Depending on the quality of the build, it may be a good shooter, but has little collector value. Some parts are likely USGI, but the receiver is not.

Century's web page (they're an importer/manufacturer and don't sell directly to the public, but you can get your shop to order whatever you want): http://www.centuryarms.com/

 

[HankB]

ALL USGI M1 Garand rifles have the manufacturer and serial number on top of the receiver just in back of the rear sight. Ditto for the M1 rifles made by Springfield Armory Inc. (NOT the government arsenal of the same name!), except I believe the serial numbers start at 7,000,000.

Your rifle was probably assembled with surplus parts on an aftermarket receiver from Century Arms International; perhaps the parts were even salvaged from demilled Garands. Some regard CAI firearms as being assembled by enraged drunken monkeys. They're generally not that bad, and if your rifle headspaces OK, it should be safe to shoot.

There's no "history" to speak of on these rifles, unless you have some rare barrel or something.

Note that most commercial .30/06 ammo is a poor choice for the M1 Garand, due to excess port pressure. USGI or Greek HXP ammo (as sold by the CMP) are preferred.

 

[HankB]

double tap

 

[firepig3]

thanks for the info hank. particularly the ammo info.

 

[Zarada]

Hello,

I too am new (as you can easily see) and have recently purchased an M1 Garand. To say I know almost nothing would be an overstatement. That being said I have been reading this thread that tells me a lot more than I knew before.

I was hoping that you guys/gals could help me with the information on my Garand. I broke it down partly (not sure how to entirely--yes I know idiot!) and copied down some numbers. I hope ya'll can help me understand my new rifle. I have listed the parts I can see with the markings. I hope i got the part names correct. Please let me know anything that you can determine about these parts (age,etc..).

Part:
Receiver M1 08114 made by CAI <--you guys say recently made by century --year?
Trigger Group D-28290-PB
Operating Rod D-35382 9 SA
Bolt D-2827-128A S-04(diamond symbol)
Stock 10256 BMR

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

Receiver M1 08114 made by CAI <--you guys say recently made by century --year?

IIRC, these were made late 1990's to early 2000's. I remember seeing the receivers and parts kits for sale in Century's catalog as late as 2001. I was considering buying the parts and building my own at the time, but did not do so. However they may have been sold longer. They are no longer available. You may be able to get production info from Century (see www.centuryarms.com).

These rifles were built from parts salvaged from Garands that were sold to Denmark and later, in a convoluted way, made their way back to the States.

Following WWII, the USA loaned or sold many Garands to its allies around the world. In the case of Denmark, some were loaned, others were sold. The ones that were loaned were returned to the U.S. Army in the 1990's and were then transfered to the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) for sale.

Since U.S. law prohibits the re-importation of U.S. made military arms, the Garands that were sold to Denmark were, upon disposition, sold by the Danes to a Canadian company that broke them down into parts, did who knows what with the receivers (probably destroyed) and sold the parts as "parts kits" to American importers. Since the receivers had been removed/destroyed, the rest of the parts could then be imported since they no longer constituted a "firearm."

Century purchased many--if not all--of these parts kits, produced their own receivers (maybe subcontracted, I don't know), and built them into rifles again for domestic sale.

The rifles are mostly USGI parts, with the possible exception of the barrels--many were replaced by the Danish or they may be new ones made by Century or their contractor--and parts replaced by the Danes with Beretta or Breda (both Italian companies) manufactured parts, assembled on a receiver made in the late 1990's/early 2000's by CAI.

They are good shooters, however they are not desirable to militaria collectors due to their non-USGI receivers, and possibly other parts.

As far as the other parts you listed, they appear to be USGI Garand parts except for the trigger group (PB=Beretta) and stock (could that be "BMB"=Breda). You might check these sites for more information.

http://www.jouster.com/serial/Springfield.html
http://www.battlerifle.com/
http://www.trfindley.com/pgsnstmpsm1.html
http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm

Here's a link to the CMP site discussing Danish Garands. Note that their focus is the loaned Garands that were returned to the U.S. Army and then transferred to the CMP, not the ones imported as parts.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/Danish.htm

 

[Zarada]

Thx for the info.

 

[Rshooter]

FirePig, I am new here too. I am not hitting on your Garand but please if it burps or makes any complaints on the first firing have a competent gunsmith check it out before you fire it again. I concur with HankB about the drunk monkeys at Century. The M1 creates some serious chamber pressures and you do not want to fool around with improper headspace or any other nefarious issues that may be created on the build. Better safe than sorry.

Once you have it smoothed out enjoy it for being one of the finest weapons ever created. Also please follow up on the advice about using milsurp ammo. There is a lot of Greek ammo on enbloc clips for a decent price with the CMP or other ammo sites.

Can we give the site names out here?

 

[Rshooter]

FirePig

One more thing...need some EnBlocs?

Drop me a [email protected]

 

[Oohrah]

Firepig 3 Howdy from the wet side of the state! No clue of your
location, but Ted Brown, Jacksonville, Oregon is one Garand and
M-14 fix or build I no of. Just west of Medford a few miles.
Received parts and and advise via phone sometime back. Good
reputation

 

[jimorat]

M1 rifle question

Does anyone know what the width of the op rod groove is to be. Not incluing the v cut in the groove. Just the dimension from the top lip to the bottom lip with calipers in thousands of inches. Thanks guys.

 

[f.bates]

M1 Garand Stock Markings

I recently purchased a used M1 Garand stock from a retail gun parts distributer in New York. It is a WWII vintage well used walnut stock, obviously sent bact to US from Korea in view of the Korean characters on the stock butt. After cleanig the stock thoroughly with Homer Formby's Furniture Refinisher, I was amazed to find out that the stock is very nice American Walnut and has the Circle P on the handpiece. In addition there is a catouche on the left side of the stock about 8 inches forward the butt plate area. It consists of a vertican box 1/2" wide and 1" tall containing two "C"s. Does anyone know the maker of this stock. Could it be "Commercial Controls"? I have seen nothing in the writings concerning sub-contractor made M1 Garand Stocks. Were some supplied by subs? Any help from the experts out there will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jim K]

Some posters have come close, but here is the scoop. Century Arms brought thousands of M1 rifles into Canada with the intention of ultimately bringing them into the U.S. Importation was denied because of a clause in the law banning importation of U.S. weapons sold under a military assistance program.

So Century had new cast receivers made in the U.S., stripped the original M1's and built rifles on the new receivers, which were marked on the side, rather than on the heel as the original rifles were.

They then imported those "new" rifles for sale in the U.S.

Some were OK and are still going strong. But some were not good at all, with poorly made receivers, old and worn parts, and poor assembly. Some objective testers found excess headspace, warped receivers, and other serious defects.

If one wants an M1 rifle, IMHO, one from CMP or even a good (non-Century) one from the commercial market would be better.

Jim