Self Defense: 00 vs. #4

Better for Defense

  • 00 - 12 pellets

    Votes: 81 56.3%

  • #4 - 27 pellets

    Votes: 63 43.8%
  • Total voters
    144
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have you ever patterned your loads ?

If you take the time to pattern a few different loads at reasonable inside the house distances , you will find that even cylinder bore 12 ga. guns with short 18 inch barrells throw very tight patterns at close range ! I use 12ga 2 3/4 inch high brass turkey loads #4 birdshot 1 3/4 oz. ! It will make hamburger out of anybody it hits and wont be lethal after it goes through a couple sheets of drywall ! I dont worry about overpenetrating the target ! You only have to worry about the bullets or shot that misses the target !! Test it yourself at close range ! If you want a shot pattern to spread , use a rifled barrel ! then you just need to keep some slugs on hand if the distance is great than about 50 ft ! try it !! Kevin
 
Youngster, I ran the numbers and found that you're right. Interesting stuff. It looks like there could be some differences between 00b and #4 buck in recoil, especially since there are 8, 9 and 12 pellet 00b and 21,27 and 34 pellet #4 buck shells (all in 2 3/4").
 
I use both.
First three shots are #4 and the last three are 00.
#4 for is for convincing someone who's broken into my apartment that it's a bad idea.
00 is for further convincing.
 
I only have slugs and 00 bcks in my shotgun right now. In case of breakin i still rely on my hangun glock 19 withnight sights. The SA .45 acp is also loaded. Shotgun is my last to grab . Spreading inside the house is not gonna be nice.
 
To me #4 is just too small. I draw the line at .30 (#1). I am considering switching to #1 from 00 for home defense. Reason's being less penetration and the fact that 16 .30s sound more effective than 9 .33s.

16x.30"= 4.8" of possible wound area per shot

9x.33"= 2.97" of possible wound area per shot

That's the way I see it.
 
my 930spx is loaded with Rem. 3'' mag 00B 15 pellet right now.

i do have some old Winchester 2 3/4'' 12 pellet 00B that's copper plated that i picked up that would be option number 2.
 
To me #4 is just too small. I draw the line at .30 (#1). I am considering switching to #1 from 00 for home defense. Reason's being less penetration and the fact that 16 .30s sound more effective than 9 .33s.

16x.30"= 4.8" of possible wound area per shot

9x.33"= 2.97" of possible wound area per shot

That's the way I see it.
Click to expand...

27 pellet #4 potentially gives you 6.48" wound area, but it is awefully small. I think it's alright at across the room distances but I wouldn't trust it otherwise defensively unless maybe someone offered it with super hard pellets.
 
My vote is for the 00 Buck x 12. But, for HD, I actually prefer the 9 pellet (Federal LE Low-Recoil) version. In comparing the two, Im assuming more mass on the part of the 9 pellet variety. Of course, Im coming from the .45 ACP camp, so....I tend to prefer mass. ;)
 
Youngster said:
12 pellet 00 throws over 100 grains more lead than 27 pellet #4 buck, it definately kicks harder. In fact I personally find that 12 pellet 00 is more abusive than even some more powerful loads for some reason.
Click to expand...

I disagree with you, Youngster... I find standard loads of 00, 0, 1, and 4 buck to have pretty-much the same felt-recoil.

FWIW,
Les
 
I picked #4 because it's cheaper than a 12 pellet 00bk. Not to mention, there are more chances of hitting your target. I use a 00bk with 9 pellets, myself.

S.S.
 
As the OP, let me clarify what my needs would be so you can help me address those...

I live in an adequately sized 2 story single family home in a suburban/urban area. I don't have much need for distance shooting, but I do worry about overpenetration.

I cannot think of a situation where shots would be taken at greater than 10 yds, and even that is probably on the high end. But, the construction is a little shoddy and the walls are thin.
 
Personally, given your situation, I'd go with #4B or maybe 1-2 shells of #4B followed by #1B. At the distances you are describing, I'd think #4B would be devastatingly effective though. Do you have children that you need to worry about in other rooms? What is the exterior of your house made of? How close to you are the neighbors and what are their houses made of? If the answers to these questions make you nervous, you should stay away from 00B.
 
Oh, I also noticed you live in Florida. This means you don't have to worry about the effectiveness of smaller pellets (or bullets) when confronted with heavy winter clothing like we do up north. So, the smaller #4B or maybe #1B would be the way to go.
 
I was issued a Mossberg 12g for prisoner transport from the USS Saipan LHA#2 to Rosie Roads Naval Base. Marine Crpl tried to shoot his Lt. with a SAW. The weapon was loaded with "Glass rounds 12g" according to the box. When I asked the OOD he said that is what they use on ship, "It hits the hull and turns to powder." I also was later told by the MD onboard that the stuff doesnt show up really well on x-ray either. Let me see if I can dig up a DoD logistics # for you guys.
 
I use 00B. As close as I'll use it won't make much difference. Same mess.

This is for in home, up close. Mossberg 500 with 18 1/2 " barrel. Pistol grips fore and aft.
 
Who makes a 12 pellet 00 2¾" shell? 3" yes!

A load of #4 buck in a 3" shell is around 41 pellets not 27...

I prefer #2 buck .270 at 12.5 pellets/ounce to #4 .240 at 20.3 P/oz

#00 .330 is 8.13 P/oz. But I’d rather use #000 .360 at 6 p/oz or even #0000 .380 at 4.5 P/oz…

My HD load is a reload of #2 buck with the spaces filled with #2 bird .150, 130 P/oz...I also have #F .220, 28.1 P/oz filled with #4 bird .130, 202 P/oz, in the second chamber of my coach gun...

I also use straight #TT .210, 29.5 P/oz for feral dog control...
 
I would stay with 00 bck and slugs . An intruder usually wears heavy clothing or could have some bullet proof vests . THese people arent stupid . There may be two or three of them. A slug is the way to go for accurate fire.Adenaline will take over in the heat of combat ! Shoot shoot and shoot then take cover and reload ASAP. Or transition to handgun if you d prefer. The main thing is to survive and overwhelm the BG s before they can hurt u back. Chances if you blast them hard, they get hit , if still alive they better egress out. These dont wanna stay and have a shootout with you knowing the cops will shortly come over.
 
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well folks what we have here is a forever long arguement where every one looks at pellet size and number of pellets. A few have commented on patterns. #4 buck should be the minimum in any pellet configuration. Why? Individual pellet weight. At close ranges a #4 pellet has enough speed and energy to make enough penetration to kill. Bird shot is not good enough at all. If you have no concerns about shoot throughs then 00 and larger will be fine. If range is an issue, say greater than 30 yards then #4 buck will fall short as the pellets loose energy speed and momentum over range faster than larger pellets.

So to answer the question properly I would need to know at what ranges you might be needing to shoot.
 
I see a post or two confusing #4 Bird and #4 Buck...I think. The OP is referring to #4 Buck.

#4 Buck is .24 diameter while #4 Bird is .13. Actually #4 Bird is not a bad HD load for close quarters HD in apartments or crowded urban settings...like where I am at. I keep #4 Bird handy for my shotgun as well as 00 and 0 Buck.

I am citing this. http://www.ammobank.com/shotsize.html
 
Wont matter as long as you hit them with a good hit.

If not they will both still do equal damage.
 
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