Self-defense in a no-weapon foreign country

[scott.cr]

Hi all,

I'm going to Shenzhen, China for a business trip. I have heard unsubstantiated stories that foreigners (including foreigners from Hong Kong, 30 minutes away) are being targeted by the local riffraff, held at gunpoint and forced to make ATM withdrawals, or kidnapped and held for ransom.

I can think of several ways to mitigate financial loss, such as using pre-paid credit cards and transferring most of my money to a non-ATM-accessible bank account.

What I'd like some opinions on are the "what-ifs." What if a crook doesn't believe you have no money? What if there are several armed BGs? What if they throw a bag over your head and haul you into a van? As far as I know it is illegal to carry any type of weapon in China if you are not gov't.

Assuming I was able to smuggle in a defensive blade or baton, would you rather face kidnapping w/ possible slow death or time in a Chinese "institution" and possible slow death? I'd like to hear any and all opinions.

 

[Imaginos]

Universal Non-Weapon

The closest thing I know of to a universally available weapon is a walking stick. It is pretty hard to outlaw walking canes without affecting a significant portion of your population.

I suggest you get a Cold Steel "City Stick" or "Walkabout".
http://www.coldsteel.com/sticks.html

 

[kage genin]

Hi Scott,
I'm currently living in Beijing, China. I brought my Benchmade with me (check-in luggage) which I carry almost all the time. I don't know how legal it may be, but nobody has noticed or asked about it. I have noticed signs posted at subway station entrances forbidding taking knives into the subway system... does that mean it's ok to have a knife where not specifically forbidden? I should ask one of my former students who's a policeman in Beijing...

I'm not suggesting breaking Chinese laws, but my rationale is I'd rather be alive and in jail than kidnapped/killed. Just in case, I hope you have somebody there who will call the US embassy for you if you do get in trouble with the law.

...Counting the months till I can come home to the US... miss my guns

In the meantime, stay in condition Yellow. Be aware of your surroundings and people attempting too hard to look inconspicuous. Be worth noting that thieves in China rarely work alone. If some guy strikes up a conversation (most likely trying to appear friendly), watch him and watch for an accomplice.
Things here in Beijing are pretty nice, but the talk is that southern China has more of a crime problem (incl. Guangdong province, where Shenzhen is located). The joke amongst locals is that a Southern Chinese thief will take everythig you have including the clothes off your back, a Northern Chinese thief will at least leave you money to take the bus home

 

[hso]

While there will you be unescorted?

Don't smuggle anything, just purchase a walking stick and a knife while there and leave it when you come home if you don't want to check it.

 

[NMshooter]

Have multiple options, like a bright flashlight, OC spray if available, rolls of change, etc.

And keep in mind that everyone in a knife fight gets cut...

 

[MillCreek]

I have a good friend who used to work for the State Department, and worked a desk in the SE Asia section. Part of his duties were providing diplomatic assistance for American citizens who got into legal trouble in the SE Asia region. He always said 'God help you, cause we can't' if an American citizen was arrested for a crime in the PRC. He told some frightening stories about US nationals who were arrested or convicted for crimes in the PRC, or even worse, in Malaysia, where they routinely hang Western foreigners convicted of drug trafficking.

Since I suspect that the PRC likely has weapons laws pertaining to foreign nationals or its own citizens, I think your best bet is a tool that does not look like a weapon, such as the earlier suggestions for a large flashlight or a walking stick. When I am in these situations, I carry a monopod (collapsible walking staff with a camera mount), and if anyone asks, I say it is for my photographic gear, since I take a camera or two when I travel.

 

[longeyes]

Ivory chopsticks, applied where it hurts most.

 

[Ryder]

I'd not go out alone. I'd arrange for locals to group with me. One option I've heard people do in these situations is to pay for a bodyguard to escort you around. It's supposedly easier for locals to get away with defending themselves than it is a foreigner. I've also heard that authorities are biased toward protecting their own people. The don't like you slicing and dicing their people. With my luck it's be the mayor's nephew.

Prison in China? I thought they executed criminals to sell the organs.

 

[justashooter]

i live in henan 6 months of the year, 6 weeks at a time in rotation.

the truely indispensible weapon any low wai can and should find there is a cute chinese girlfriend. they know what not to do, where not to go, who not to talk to, etc.

best of luck to you on your trip, and remember, carry lots of US currency. it is good more places than even an american express card.

 

[bcochran]

I go back further than kage genin in China. This means, I was there before he was born in 1978. I always carried an Emerson or a Buck and a yawawa stick. Surprisingly (because I have done stick fighting), you are allowed to carry a cane on an airplane. So, if you have had a few days of escrima or knife fighting instruction, you are as good as gold.

I remember one night in Bejing. My three condition white companions insisted in eating out late at night at a restaurant. We were shadowed by three "country people". I drew my folder and had it ready by my side (concealed) and placed my companions between myself and the country people. This was so I could have more reaction time. I also told my companions to "get the lead out and move it".

You don't have to go to China to have the experience. I encountered two robbers on the Palisaides in Santa Monica, CA one morning when I was unarmed. I simply changed to an aggressive bold posture and sped on through. The guy behind me was robbed.

If you go to western China, you will soon learn that not even the locals go out at night in large towns. The silence in the streets is almost overwhelming at 11 p.m. There are a lot of free lance BGs.

 

[BerettaNut92]

In the meantime, stay in condition Yellow

Don't say it Skunk...don't say it Skunk.....

Man I wish I could help. Only been to Shenzhen (sp?) once and it was 10+ years ago....

 

[Janitor]

As far as I know it is illegal to carry any type of weapon in China if you are not gov't.

If only the police have weapons there, what's your worry?

 

[Sam]

If you are not required by law to be there, don't go. Not a whole lot in China that I need bad enough to go there, or anywhere else that doesn't allow a person to properly take care of himself.

The Govt can't make me go to thos places any more, and I don't.
Find a job with a better company.

Sam

 

[Robert Hairless]

I don't have the knowledge to offer an opinion about what to do in China. For an unobtrusive last ditch defensive weapon, though, consider the Hideaway Knife. Small and lightweight, it can be carried in its kydex sheath suspended on a chain around your neck or in several other modes. This photo fairly compares its size to that of a car key:

It's quite a useful knife for other purposes too. When shipped to other countries the vendor describes it as a "fish knife" or some other such thing.

There are various models and prices but you could get the Utility version for about $69 plus shipping. Order it well in advance of the time you need it. It takes about 8 weeks to make if there's none available in your size, and another three weeks or so if you pay by bank check. This is a one-woman operation done as a part time business.

 

[bad LT]

Got to agree with the above statements of carrying a "non-weapon." My own person sugestion is a nice steel pen for "signing checks."

 

[IndianaDon]

I was confronted by three guys with knives on my way home at night in Hangzhou back in 1994. Managed to throw one to the ground and whacked the others pretty well with my brass duck head-handled English-style umbrella from John Wannamakers in Philadelphia. Remember John Steed in "The Avengers"? That's what he used and it served me well, too. I later complained to a Chinese martial arts expert friend that I didn't have the gumption to hurt 'em bad enough to permanantly put 'em down, but he just laughed and said if I'd broken any bones or left any serious marks, it would have turned into a serious case where I would be tracked down at my hotel and arrested. He said I handled it about right. Several years later I was threatened with arrest and imprisonment for a disagreement with a sleazy official, but I luckilly managed to obtain (don't ask me how) crucial documents exhonerating myself and proving that the official had been lying. I was cleared and the official had to pay 5000 yuan in fines! I had made plans to have a good Chinese friend with a lot of connections take me to the airport and sneak out if it had gone the other way... There are a lot of kind, good hearted people in China... but, like anywhere elase, you always get the slime-balls too. And nobody, no matter how good-natured they are -- is going to get in the middle of someone elses fight over there... The umbrella or the monopod get my vote.

 

[rwc]

My wife works in goung dong (sp?) about once a year and is escorted 24/7 if off the company compound. Overkill? Maybe, but I sleep better for it.

 

[hso]

RWC,

Does your wife work for Bechtel?

 

[torpid]

"...the truely indispensible weapon any low wai can and should find there is a cute chinese girlfriend. they know what not to do, where not to go, who not to talk to, etc."

I think I am suddenly interested in collecting Chinese weapons...

 

[rick_reno]

When I worked in PRC we had drivers who were with us all the time. We were forbidden from driving. I asked about riding a bike - the locals do - and was told that'd be a very bad idea. A couple of times my driver stepped in - said some mean stuff - and the threat (I was never sure there was a threat) dissolved. Something we were told to be careful of was a man beating on a woman in a public place (restaurants seemed to be popular places to pull this one off), Western good-guy intervenes and is suddenly in a world of trouble. Assume everything is bugged, we had our offices swept weekly by a former FBI bugging expert we'd hired - he'd find things.

 

[confed sailor]

wait a minute, what is Bechtel doing in china?

 

[hso]

confed,


They're everywhere, they're everywhere!

Big dam project. (or is that big damn project?)

 

[mtnbkr]

A heavy camera on a neck strap (sturdy one at that) would make a good improvised weapon and wouldn't get noticed in most places.

Chris

 

[pete f]

a rock in a sock always works well too. a cane or walking stick will work too. sharp pointy things tend to let people know you are not a sheeple. find things there that work too. cooking knife a computer anti theft cable with a padlock on the end.... all sorts of things

 

[Mauserguy]

"the truely indispensible weapon any low wai can and should find there is a cute chinese girlfriend. they know what not to do..."

I agree with this statement. You may find that you kind of like China. Be careful, though. It is common for westerners to have strange women knock on their hotel doors. A nice local girl may be fun. Others may be dangerous.
Mauserguy