Semi Auto 308. SA SOCOM 16 , M1A or AR10???

[Rule3]

Looking around for a 308 Win semi auto. I have 2 bolt actions. More for range shooting rather than hunting. I have a tack driver bolt (Rem 700) so this would be more a "fun" gun.

I like the SA SOCOM 16 as it is carbine style but they are pricy. The SA M1A (all models) are nice but heavy, even more money and more of a bench gun to me.

Leaving the AR10's which I think I can get for a little less money. Any of the good brands are fine by me.

I lean towards the SOCOM 16 but it is so close to my Ruger Scout bolt other than semi auto of course! Almost a Ruger Mini 30 style.

So then I think more of the AR 10 style

Help me spend some money I do not have!

I reload so that's not a major issue.

 

[Leadhead]

Here in Canada, AR's are restricted to range use and we can get good, non restricted, Chinese made Semi Auto M1A's for $500.00.....
If I was you I'd look at the AR 10 and maybe consider the new Ruger.

 

[Rule3]

Here in Canada, AR's are restricted to range use and we can get good, non restricted, Chinese made Semi Auto M1A's for $500.00.....
If I was you I'd look at the AR 10 and maybe consider the new Ruger.

Thanks, I was not even aware of the new Ruger SR-762. It looks like a really nice gun and I like Ruger.

MSRP ($2200)is pretty high though! Not that they sell for that, but gives a indication of what the street price will be.

 

[josiewales]

I gotta say, if I had the money I would def get a SR-762. Looks like a fantastic gun, and it's made by Ruger. A very high quality manufacturer.

 

[MCMXI]

I would suggest an AR308 of some type over an M1A. I have an AR308 and FAL, and until recently an M1A Scout Squad but I sold it for the simple reason that it was never designed to be used with an optic. It was a very nice rifle with a great trigger but Springfields can be hit and miss. My DSA FAL is ok but barely a 2moa rifle whereas just about every AR308 I've shot over the last few years has been better than 1moa. Folks here will criticize the DPMS AR308s for various reasons but every single one I've shot (three now) has been very accurate. You don't need to spend $2,000 to buy an accurate and reliable AR308. Don't forget that AR308s are much easier (and cheaper) to set up exactly the way you want.

Here's a DPMS for under $1,000. If you have the money then something from LaRue or other high end manufactures is a great option too.

http://www.onlinegundeals.com/ItemD..._PANTHER_LONG_RANGE_LR_308T_16_BARREL_NEW.htm

 

[Welding Rod]

Old standard answer.... If you want to shoot irons, get a m14 clone. If you want to use an optic get an AR10.

After owning 4 m1As, I have not been impressed or satisfied with SAI's quality control, but if you get a good one they are an excellent platform and can be quite accurate. The also seem to eat about any load, heavy or light.

I have a MP10 which is not tolerant of lower power factory ammo, and it isn't as accurate as even my stock Standard M1A with its light GI profile barrel - not to mention the M1A is being shot with irons while the MP gets the advantage of a scope.

M1A trigger will likely be superior out of the box. I wouldn't consider a Standard M1A a bench gun by any stretch, and 308 ARs aren't light either.

Of course an AR will vary greatly depending on the configuration and who made it.

 

[primalmu]

Rule3, for what its worth, its the Ruger Mini-14/Mini-30 that is M1A-like, not the other way around.

 

[boricua9mm]

What kind of range fun you looking for? Offhand 100 yards and closer? Sitting/Prone/Bench 100 yards and beyond? Are you looking to shoot fast just for grins? Are you looking to shoot at a slow pace and try to put bullets on top of one another?

I'm also in Florida. I don't have much use for a .308 carbine. I do own a full sized M1A Standard. It averages 1.7 MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards from the bench, with group measurements going back 7 years now. I look at it as a Designated Marksman Rifle that can put in work one round after another at 600 yards or less. The SOCOM 16 isn't set up for this type of work. On the other hand, its one helluva bang stick for 200 yards and in. To make it perform for you at 300 yards, it has been my experience that you'll want a standard rear aperture and a standard or NM front sight post. The factory-equipped large aperture and fat Trijicon post won't help you make accurate hits at 300 yards.

If a handy .308 carbine is what fits the bill, why aren't you also considering a PTR-91 or a DSA FAL? Both would be quality weapons, and in my opinion, more dependable as an emergency tool. Accuracy for both of those guns would be on par with that of the SOCOM. Springfield has some good guns out there (mine is GREAT) but these days they have 100% commercial quality parts and the QA/QC is a roll of the dice.

Your Mileage May Vary, but when I buy long guns I buy them with the perspective that they might be called upon when I'm in dire straights. My only "range toys" are rimfires.

Just food for thought.

 

[Torian]

Old standard answer.... If you want to shoot irons, get a m14 clone. If you want to use an optic get an AR10.

After owning 4 m1As, I have not been impressed or satisfied with SAI's quality control, but if you get a good one they are an excellent platform and can be quite accurate. The also seem to eat about any load, heavy or light.

I have a MP10 which is not tolerant of lower power factory ammo, and it isn't as accurate as even my stock Standard M1A with its light GI profile barrel - not to mention the M1A is being shot with irons while the MP gets the advantage of a scope.

M1A trigger will likely be superior out of the box. I wouldn't consider a Standard M1A a bench gun by any stretch, and 308 ARs aren't light either.

Of course an AR will vary greatly depending on the configuration and who made it.

I would take my LRB M14 over an AR10, but that's more of a personal preference. With a custom trigger, forged receiver, ARMS receiver mount, and criterion barrel, my M14 doesn't resemble the standard M1A much other than looks.

The AR10 will accept an optic with less hassle, but I prefer the action of the M14.

 

[valnar]

Short answer: If the PWS MK2 is anything like my MK1, I'd recommend it in a heart beat. Like most good .308 semi-autos though, it is expensive.

Long answer: I went down the same road as you, and after months of contemplating I decided smaller calibers like a .223 are better suited for semi-auto fun guns. Rapid firing a .308 is no picnic, and having it cost a dollar+ per pull of the trigger takes the fun out of it too.

The logic I used was:
.308 is good for medium-to-long range
medium-to-long range requires careful aim
careful aim is the domain of bolt guns

My compromise was to buy a 20" heavy barrel tactical bolt action. I can still shoot .308 all day if I choose, but I'm not blowing through ammo.

 

[Rule3]

Rule3, for what its worth, its the Ruger Mini-14/Mini-30 that is M1A-like, not the other way around.

Yes, my bad.

As to the PTR, isn't that a roller semi blow back? More thump and abuse on my shoulder? or is that not correct? Never shot one.I get ads from CDNN all the time for those.

The FAL I know nothing about. Heck I am open to any ideas. Just need to go easy on recoil. My Ruger Scout (bolt) is about all my shoulder can handle. I have brittle bones.

Yes optics could be a concern also, eyes are not what they used to be so the forward scope is not great. The 2x Scout scope isn't much at over 50 yards.

As I mentioned I have a tricked out Rem 700 that is capable of one hole shots with a fantastic scope so I am looking more for a range blaster (not crazy) but more of a heavier plinker at 100 yards or less.

 

[barnbwt]

An FNH FNAR, based on the Browning BAR hunting rifle, costs less, is lighter, and more accurate than any M1A, G3, or CETME anywhere near the same ballpark cost-wise. Its 1MOA factory guarantee is beyond any of the aforementioned, as well as AR10s anywhere the ~1000$ price point (yes, a 5000$ Surgeon will be better). I'm not an expert on all AR10s, but I believe most of them in the 1K price set weigh about the same as well (~10lb depending on scope, etc.).



Disadvantages with the FNH are its expensive but well made magazines (price will come down, but FNH has been slow to respond to Sandy Hook era scarcity, I'm guessing because demand for their other products is still higher). It has a cross-bolt safety which some hate. It has no iron sights, but a long enough rail to mount a reflex or other short optic with back up sights. Being a rifle besting DMR accuracy, I question the need for iron sights, but I know some folks desire them. Unlike an AR10 (but just like the other options) there is a dearth of accessories, though a folding stock has been devised by ACE, and the BAR Shortrak stock can be modified to work for a straight-stock grip. The factory grip is adjustable and more ergonomic than any platform but maybe the AR and M1A (and only because of owner familiarity)

The gas system is tappet-piston driven short stroke, so very smooth recoil response, and it requires very intermittent cleaning (~1000rnds). Its disassembly is fairly complex, but only required every 1000rnds or so. The recoil spring does "sproing" a bit when fired, just like the AR and others. The trigger is not million-dollar awesome, but it is superior to any unmodified service rifle-based platform.

Another really good gun that I'm certain is great in 308 is the FN49. Mine is 30-06 and is extremely nice to shoot (and look at). The Argentine FN49s modified to take 20rnd mags would suit your needs nicely, and they run a little over 1000$ as well (not bad for a nicer-looking FAL made in Belgium)




My FNAR was my favorite 308; I think it may lose favor to the BM59 I am building. It still needs a lot of work, but it is basically what the M14 should have been all along. The BM59 weighs about 9lb with the huge but effective muzzle comp removed. Probably 8.5 if other unnecessary bits like the bipod and rate-reducer are taken off. Barrel is ~19" and folded is about 2" longer than the receiver. The stock feel is reminiscent of an M1 Carbine Paratrooper (no, I'm not kidding; it feels that handy)

For pure range awesomeness, buy an STGW57 (similar to SIG AMT) kit from APEX, a new receiver shell and 308 barrel, and weld-er up. That would all run ~1200$ if you do the receiver work yourself, and would resell for probably 3X that.

Theres also the MAS49/59 308 conversions, which, if done properly, are very fine rifles and only cost about 500$. If you want a fun range plinker in 308 and don't want to break the bank, this is probably the best deal running, now. Remember to check out the chamber and, if possible, have the gun's reliability tested before purchase (Century screwed up a bunch of guns with worn and wandering reamers when they did their conversions, but many were done by reputable smiths, as well)

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

"Heck I am open to any ideas. Just need to go easy on recoil. My Ruger Scout (bolt) is about all my shoulder can handle. I have brittle bones."
I can assure you the FNAR is a pussycat compared to my Remington 700 in 308 (which is a tabby cat, I guess ), and the FN49 is the most pleasant of my steel-butt rifles.

TCB

 

[Torian]

An FNH FNAR, based on the Browning BAR hunting rifle, costs less, is lighter, and more accurate than any M1A, G3, or CETME anywhere near the same ballpark cost-wise. Its 1MOA factory guarantee is beyond any of the aforementioned, as well as AR10s anywhere the ~1000$ price point (yes, a 5000$ Surgeon will be better). I'm not an expert on all AR10s, but I believe most of them in the 1K price set weigh about the same as well (~10lb depending on scope, etc.).



Disadvantages with the FNH are its expensive but well made magazines (price will come down, but FNH has been slow to respond to Sandy Hook era scarcity, I'm guessing because demand for their other products is still higher). It has a cross-bolt safety which some hate. It has no iron sights, but a long enough rail to mount a reflex or other short optic with back up sights. Being a rifle besting DMR accuracy, I question the need for iron sights, but I know some folks desire them. Unlike an AR10 (but just like the other options) there is a dearth of accessories, though a folding stock has been devised by ACE, and the BAR Shortrak stock can be modified to work for a straight-stock grip. The factory grip is adjustable and more ergonomic than any platform but maybe the AR and M1A (and only because of owner familiarity)

The gas system is tappet-piston driven short stroke, so very smooth recoil response, and it requires very intermittent cleaning (~1000rnds). Its disassembly is fairly complex, but only required every 1000rnds or so. The recoil spring does "sproing" a bit when fired, just like the AR and others. The trigger is not million-dollar awesome, but it is superior to any unmodified service rifle-based platform.

Another really good gun that I'm certain is great in 308 is the FN49. Mine is 30-06 and is extremely nice to shoot (and look at). The Argentine FN49s modified to take 20rnd mags would suit your needs nicely, and they run a little over 1000$ as well (not bad for a nicer-looking FAL made in Belgium)




My FNAR was my favorite 308; I think it may lose favor to the BM59 I am building. It still needs a lot of work, but it is basically what the M14 should have been all along. The BM59 weighs about 9lb with the huge but effective muzzle comp removed. Probably 8.5 if other unnecessary bits like the bipod and rate-reducer are taken off. Barrel is ~19" and folded is about 2" longer than the receiver. The stock feel is reminiscent of an M1 Carbine Paratrooper (no, I'm not kidding; it feels that handy)

For pure range awesomeness, buy an STGW57 (similar to SIG AMT) kit from APEX, a new receiver shell and 308 barrel, and weld-er up. That would all run ~1200$ if you do the receiver work yourself, and would resell for probably 3X that.

Theres also the MAS49/59 308 conversions, which, if done properly, are very fine rifles and only cost about 500$. If you want a fun range plinker in 308 and don't want to break the bank, this is probably the best deal running, now. Remember to check out the chamber and, if possible, have the gun's reliability tested before purchase (Century screwed up a bunch of guns with worn and wandering reamers when they did their conversions, but many were done by reputable smiths, as well)

TCB

I was first attracted to the FNAR, but backed off from purchasing one based on the high frequency of reports indicating the system was VERY finicky about the ammo you could use.

I tend to shoot PRVI .308 because it is the only ammo I can get right now in bulk that is also a good deal (around 65 cents a ground). My M14 devours everthing I throw at it...the FNAR cares for high quality match grade stuff.

Hopefully they worked the kinks out...but I prefer to go with a proven weapon system that's been around for awhile. Accuracy is not a problem for me.

 

[HKGuns]

AR10.....

 

[Rule3]

Guys we are trying to keep the price down to mere mortals ability to pay.

Sure an FN or HK would look nice in my safe. But they are big bucks!

A while back I almost bout an FN but something else came around, some kind of household expensive or trivial thing like that.

 

[Texan Scott]

Anybody have experience with VEPR .308s?

 

[johnnydollar]

I REALLY like my SOCOM-16.

 

[119er]

I will eventually own both but for now I would vote M1A. I have a scout squad and I like it. The M1A and AR-10 type rifles are no light weights but the M1A feels much better for its weight to me. The AR style is great when it is light and nimble like an AR-15 but it feels cumbersome to me when it is scaled up and weighs so much. Out of box accuracy and reliability advantage probably goes to the AR-10 platform but as far as I know they aren't really standardized like the AR-15 is. You can mount a scope on the M1A if you like or a red dot up front on the scout. I typically use the awesome iron sights that it is provided with myself.

Also, the 20rd mags in the M1A are good for the bench but when actually shooting standing or prone I prefer the 10rd mags. I can support it better without the mag digging into my arm.

 

[Swampman]

Out of box accuracy and reliability advantage probably goes to the AR-10 platform

I'll grant that the accuracy on the AR-10 is likely to be better than a Standard M1a, but unless Springfield quality has taken a HUGE nose dive recently I'd have to give the reliability advantage to the M1a.

While I've been a very satisfied M1a owner for almost 30 years if I were looking for an affordable 7.62x51 "Battle" rifle in this day and age, I'd look real hard at the PTR91 GI Model. My youngest son purchased one brand new for $895.00 just a few months back and I've gotta say, I was impressed. Although the ergonomics and sights aren't as good as an M1a or AR-10, they're not bad. Out of the box it shot five round groups of just over an inch and a half and was 100% reliable. The fluted chamber makes the brass a little fugly, but we've had no problems reloading it.

The real kicker is that we both ordered magazines from Midway at about the same time, I got two Checkmates and he got 10 H&K's, his 10 magazines cost considerably less than my two and while his were "used surplus" all but two appeared unissued, several were still in the factory paper wrap!

 

[Robert]

AR10.

 

[Dean1818]

The AR10 type is an easy choice

SIG716, POF308, and the new Ruger would be decent


I have an AR15 in 6.8 that gives me a hunting round, but also the lightness of an AR15. Reloading makes my cost less than 30 cents


Lastly, I would consider the VEPR hunter in 308

Reliable AK action, good looking gun

 

[LebbenB]

I own a couple of .308 ARs and I've owned an SAI M1A Scout. I prefer the modularity and intrinsic accuracy of the AR platform. Beyond scoping the rifle or hanging the latest "tactical" widget off of it, it's so much easier to modify than an M1A. The cost of modifying an AR based rifle is much less than an M1A as well.

Improving the trigger on an M1A involves major surgery and time at a gunsmith's shop. The same for re-barreling. For an AR-based rifle, those two upgrades are so simple, a layman can do it successfully in his own home.

Take a "rack grade" M1A and .308 AR. You want to turn both into competition rifles. For the AR, you purchase a free-float sleeve, match sights, match barrel, match trigger, and (possibly) a new buttstock. Cost for all this is $1000-2000, not including initial price of the rifle. Most, if not all, of these parts can be successfully installed by the user if he/she has the right tools. If done correctly, the rifle has the accuracy potential to shoot substantially better than 1" groups.

For the M1A, the rifle must have recoil lugs added, space created in the stock for the lugs or replace the stock with a NM version, glass bed the stock, the op-rod must be trued or replaced with a NM version, replace the op-rod guide and spring with a NM version, re-barreled with a competition barrel, unitize the gas system, and tune or replace the trigger. Cost for all this is $3-5000 dollars or more. If done correctly, the rifle has the potential to shoot 1 MOA, maybe a little better. Then the REAL challenge begins - keeping the rifle accurate. That involves a trip back to the gunsmith at least once a year for a tune up. There's a high price to be paid for nostalgia.

When I was a young Soldier in Division, I was in the sniper squad of the 2-504 PIR's Scout Platoon. I was issued an M21 with a 3-9x ART III scope and a 39" 2x4. Prior to a jump, I'd inspect my weapon, turn it back into the Arms Room and put the 2x4 in my M1950 weapon case. Upon landing, I'd make my way to the company assembly area, find the armorer, turn-in my 2x4 and take my M21. A tricked up M14/M21/M1A is very accurate. But it's also very fragile.

Some M1A owners will chime in that their rifles will shoot 0.000000000025" groups at 100 yds consistently. Please note that I'm referring to the mechanical accuracy potential of the rifle and not factoring in shooter skill and ammunition used.

Thank God most of our jumps were at night, because it was mighty embarrassing running across Sicily DZ with a 2x4 in my hands.

 

[Fishbed77]

Thanks, I was not even aware of the new Ruger SR-762. It looks like a really nice gun and I like Ruger.

I will say, despite being a bit over-priced IMHO, that Ruger is probably the best-looking AR-10 I've ever seen.

 

[Rule3]

For those recommending the PTR. (many many varieties!)

How is the delayed blowback, roller lock system as far as FELT recoil compared to the gas or piston system?

All I know from handguns is blowback has more felt recoil than other systems