Semi-Auto .357 carbine
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ARperson
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Regarding the rim lock of a semi-auto action and a rimmed case.... It is more difficult to deal with than non rimmed cartridges; however, the BREN gun and the SVT rifle series have shown that rimmed cartridges can be used in auto loading firearms if care is used during loading of magazines.
Yep, also the Mosin-Nagant, SVD... I alluded to that in my first post in this thread. Battle rifles that used normal box magazines and rimmed cartridges were loaded with stripper clips that automatically aligned the rims. People today don't use stripper clips and don't even read the manual, they'd just assume the gun was broken and return it.ARperson said:
Father Knows Best
Member
Gohon said:
You're using handloads. I was citing standard factory loads. Big difference there. With handloading in the right firearm, you can also up the power of the .30 carbine.
Of course, the next question would again be ... why? If you want a semi-auto just a little hotter than a .30 carbine, just move up to something in 7.62x39, like a Mini-30, SKS or AK.
Domino
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First of all, the 7.62X39 and .30 carbine are not pistol cartridges the .357 magnum is. There is a huge amount of .357 magnum handguns around, there are only a handfull of .30 carbine and 7.62X39 pistols. Secondly the ballistics of the .357 is better out of a rifle than the .30 carbine in every way, there is also a much larger variety of .357 ammo than .30 carbine and they are comparible in price.
You ask why, well why not? The .357 magnum is a great all-around defensive round, so why not have at least one autoloader rifle on the market? It's just an idea, I don't expect everyone to like or find a specific purpose for it.
brickboy240
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The Taurus Thunderbolt is comeing soon. Its a pump-action rilfe with a really short stroke in 38/357 magnum and 45 Colt. The word is that the Taurus Thunderbolt will sell for under 400 bucks (!!). Lifetime warranty, too. There is also a stainless version.
(do I want one...hell yeah!)
I think it holds like 14-15 rounds. My guess is that a pump or lever rifle would be more reliable. Would this fill the bill for you?
-Brickboy240
(do I want one...hell yeah!)
I think it holds like 14-15 rounds. My guess is that a pump or lever rifle would be more reliable. Would this fill the bill for you?
-Brickboy240
GunnySkox
Member
I dunno about all this mess about rimlock being such a giant pain in the butt. I know it's a totally different scale of size, but companies don't seem to have much trouble making 25- and 50- round magazines for the 10/22, and 22LR has a pretty good rim on it. The Ciener kit for my 1911 comes with stagger-stack magazines that hold 15 rimmed .22LR rounds, and you'd have to be a complete idiot to manage to wedge the rim of the cartrige you're inserting behind the one it's pushing down.
Personally, I think it's a pretty sweet idea, depending on how well .357 and .44 and othersuch perform in carbine-length barrels, sort of like a step closer between pistol-caliber-carbines and rifle-caliber carbines. Call 'em Carbine Caliber Carbines!
~GnSx
However, I might be a complete idiot, so watch out.
Personally, I think it's a pretty sweet idea, depending on how well .357 and .44 and othersuch perform in carbine-length barrels, sort of like a step closer between pistol-caliber-carbines and rifle-caliber carbines. Call 'em Carbine Caliber Carbines!
~GnSx
However, I might be a complete idiot, so watch out.
ElPasoWrangler
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I bet there are many more357 owners than 44mag owners and to share a single cartridge would be as valid as it is with lever actions. I would buy one.
NoLifer211
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I have a S&W .357, and I like the .38/.357 versatility. I'd like to see a carbine autoloader .357 mag for sharing ammo.
Concerning lever-action .357 carbines: who makes a good model, and what should I expect to pay?
Concerning lever-action .357 carbines: who makes a good model, and what should I expect to pay?
gga357
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Have a 16" barrel made for a Desert Eagle and attach a stock as per the Luger. And a bayonet.
gga357
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delet
jackdanson
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AWESOME!!!
But I would be worried about finger damage, OUCH!
MCgunner
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I don't attribute it to Taylor's moronic arithmetic, but yes, a .357 Carbine is a good deer gun under 100 yards. I'm pushing a 165 grain SWC at 1900 fps out of mine. That's up in the 1300 plus ft lb range. It'll still be up around 800 ft lbs at 100 yards, roughly. That'll gidder dun. I've shot one doe at 80 yards with mine, lung shot, the wound channel was impressive, but not in a .270 class or anything. A good performing high velocity round will do things a pistol blllet even at 1900 fps won't do. All you have to do is clean a few deer shot with both to understand that.
I have a lever gun, 92 Rossi, don't need no stinkin' autoloader. There is a pump out there, Timberwolf, if you can find one. IMI used to market it. The lever gun feeds my 105 grain .38 handload loaded with 2.3 grains of bullseye (great small game round, very accurate) just as well as a full house magnum. You probably couldn't get an autoloader to do that. Autoloaders lack the versatility and kill one of the reasons I like the combination.
MCgunner
Member
BTW, I think Taurus maybe bought the "thunderbolt" from IMI. Did I read that somewhere? Hmm, don't recall. I might like one of those depending on price. I got my 92 Rossi in the mid 80s for 200 bucks and they're running considerably more than that now days, over 400.
P. Plainsman
Member
I'm surprised to be the first in this thread to bring up a dedicated .357 SIG semiautomatic carbine. Much more sensible than trying to self-load a long, rimmed sixgun cartridge like the .357 Magnum. Closely similar ballistics to the Magnum with 115-125 grain bullets.
(There was passing mention of a .357 SIG Mech-Tech pistol conversion above.)
I'm not much interested in .357 SIG handguns, but a Beretta Storm or similar lightweight, modern carbine in that cartridge would be sweet. It shouldn't be much harder than making a carbine in .40 S&W, and there are several of those.
Make it take 15 round pistol magazines and a lot of people will adopt it as their home defense / ranch gun.
It'd be a self-loading, mag-fed, Marlin 1894C. How awesome would that be?
PS: Put good adjustable sights on it too please.
(There was passing mention of a .357 SIG Mech-Tech pistol conversion above.)
I'm not much interested in .357 SIG handguns, but a Beretta Storm or similar lightweight, modern carbine in that cartridge would be sweet. It shouldn't be much harder than making a carbine in .40 S&W, and there are several of those.
Make it take 15 round pistol magazines and a lot of people will adopt it as their home defense / ranch gun.
It'd be a self-loading, mag-fed, Marlin 1894C. How awesome would that be?
PS: Put good adjustable sights on it too please.
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chrissmallwood
Member
Why couldnt a magazine be built that would be similar to the magazines on .22lr pistols where you have to feed the rim through a slot cut in the feed lips. Wouldn't that alleviate the problem with rimlock by preventing the rims from being pushed behind the one under it.
Don't see why someone hasn't thought of it before, all you need is to design a rimless .357 case, and a rifle to go with it. Oh and magazines. Oh and make sure you don't load 357 "carbine" into a revolver. Wait then it becomes a different caliber, doesn't it. Hmmm.
jhco
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The answer to a question no one asked
MCgunner
Member
Not in a rifle, I'm betting. The sig round uses faster powders that wouldn't be appropriate for a long barrel and doesn't have the case capacity for the slower, bulkier powders a .357 can shoot. The Sig can't even match the .357 in a pistol with a 125 grain bullet let alone a 158-180 grain in a rifle. I can push a 125 grain bullet to near 1600 fps in a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk with 18.0 grains of 2400. In a rifle, I can push a 158 grain bullet to over 2000 fps with Lil' Gun. You ain't gonna do that with a sig case, just ain't gonna happen.
But, back just after the turn of the 20th century, this was thought of, old hat, been there, done that. It was called the .351 Winchester Self Loader....
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/247888/hunting_with_the_351_winchester_self.html
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P. Plainsman
Member
Sure, and the M1 Carbine's not far off either. But neither of em comes with a Picatinny rail (though you can add one to the M1 Carbine). And it's a lot easier to find clean, current production .357 SIG ball at the store than .30 Carbine, let alone .351 Self-Loading.
Put it in a durable "tactical" package and it would sell. Ballistically, 124 gr bullet @ 1600 fps from a 16" .357 SIG carbine should be easy to achieve with standard ammo, maybe 1650 fps, and that would be a nice boost.
Ooh, how about a folding stock!
Put it in a durable "tactical" package and it would sell. Ballistically, 124 gr bullet @ 1600 fps from a 16" .357 SIG carbine should be easy to achieve with standard ammo, maybe 1650 fps, and that would be a nice boost.
Ooh, how about a folding stock!
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