Semi-Auto Rifles: The "Range Toy" Lie?

[mac66]

I think the lie is the opposite of what the OP is suggesting. People buy these black rifles with the lie that A. they somehow are going to defend their families against the mutant, gay, alien, zombie biker hoards from China and B-that these types of weapons are actually useful for something other than playing range commando.

Lets face it, the chance of using a AR15 or AK or other EBRs and a combat load of ammo for self defense is so slim as to be almost laughable. Believe me, I've got all the toys and have been a prepper for 35 years. Still waiting on the alien invasion and/or the zombie apocalypse.

 

[zeos]

I found this picture on my brother's computer and I believe it contains the answers you seek.

 

[pwhfirefighter]

Having grown up around guns and hunting, I have enjoyed shooting since I was young. I am not financially able to be a gun collector, but I have been able to selectively buy a few of what I believe to be versatile guns. I have always thought the M-16/AR 15 was a really neat looking gun and since shooting the M-16 for the first time in basic, my goal was to get an AR-15. Did I need one? Not really, but that is not the point. I bought an AR because I wanted one. And I did spend a small amount more to purchase one that I felt would be dependable if ever I needed one in a HD/SD situation.

As far as what the OP is asking, I see your point. I absolutely believe that everyone, who LEGALLY can, should own some type of firearm. Let's face it, our society is not one that is always friendly to the law abiding citizen, and if said law abiding citizen is ever faced with needing to defend one's self or family from the criminal element in our society, they should be equipped to do so, if they so choose.(Not referring to zombie hoards) I personally choose to be equipped to defend. So is that why I bought an AR? No, any firearm can be used to defend family or property. But it did influence the particular AR I bought, which has only a sling as an accessory.

Reasons one chooses a particular weapon are as varied as the weapons available. The only justification anyone needs to give is "because it is what I wanted." To me, having any kind of gun for HD/SD is like having medical insurance, peace of mind having it and praying I never need it.

 

[thefamcnaj]

I don't own a semi automatic rifle yet but I will in February when my truck and the wifes car become paid in full. I'm getting an arsenal ak 47 sgl and a stag arms model 2. The wife is getting a mini 14. We are not mall ninjas or key board commandos. None of the three rifles we are planning on getting are the best of the best. I'm not scared to say why I want them. I love guns and thats it. I love all my pistols and shot guns. I'm not going to buy them because its a growing trend, or because I hunt.
I'm just ready to move to another plat form, really nothing more or nothing less. All three will be range toys because I'm not a leo or a soldier. I'm sure as I get accustomed to the weapons I'll get more proficient with them, like I did when I was a pistol newbie. As I get better with them, then they could be used if shtf.
I don't feel its silly for us to invest in these rifles even though we have no real use for them other than to punch paper and cans. We just like guns.

I see lots of guys buy these kinds of rifles "just because". They seem to have no real game plan other than to get one because they are popular and see lots of other guys buying them. These kinds of buyers usually decorate 'em up like a Christmas tree with doo-dads, take 'em to the range a time or two and realize "just for fun" equates to throwing a quarter down range with every pull of the trigger. After a few mags and a lighter wallet, the guns often times end up either in the closet or being on the used market with the owner wanting nearly all the money he had tied up in his toy.

I fall into the just because category. Most people do. There are more non Leo's than there are Leo's. There are more non competitive shooters, than there are competitive shooters. Same goes for hunters and military. So what it cost a quarter a round to send bullets down range, I don't put a price on having fun and bonding with the family.

 

[gunfighter48]

I'm going thru my 2nd or is it my 3rd childhood!!!!!! When I went thru basic training in 1967 we were issued M14 rifles. Nothing wrong with the M14, in fact it's great battle rifle. But we were all wanting to get M16's. They were the newest hottest thing in the firearms world.

So now that I'm old, fat, and decrepit; I bought a AR15 "just for the range" yea right. I bought it because I love military arms and now I can have the AR rifle that I didn't get back in 1967. I bought my first AR about 16 years ago and had a blast with it. Got to go Pdog hunting in Montana, nothing better than exploding Pdogs in the morning!!!

I'm not able to go hunting anymore but I get to the range about once or twice a month. The young guys can't believe the old fart with the AR can actually shoot pretty good!! They don't know that I grew up in Northeastern Washington State and shot nearly every day of the year for 7 years. Needless to say I qualified expert in basic training. AR's are just fun to shoot.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Inside my walls I am fairly certain I have it covered.
Inside my property lines I probably have it covered.

51 yrs old, never needed a defensive weapon and have never owned a black rifle.

...But I want to so that's good enough for me, any other opinion is irrelevant.

 

[boricua9mm]

I find myself perplexed by people who point out bottom rung firearms, are these the same as bottom rung vehicles? There is no issue with someone purchasing something they can afford, it may in fact mean the person has some common sense.

This thread is filled with analogies, but I'll entertain this one...

Using the car example above, let's say you have $5,000 for a used car. There's a Geo Tracker sitting next to a Honda Civic. You tell the Salesman you are looking for something to play with on some dirt roads. What you really wind up using it for is a daily driver. The guy sold you on the high points of the Geo Tracker, but didn't tell you that you never see them on the road anymore (hmmm, I wonder why that is?). You had two very different options and chose the Tracker. You could have had the more reliable day-to-day driver in the Honda. To quote Homer Simpson: "DOH!"
___________________________

A lot of responses here have focused on WHY someone would want to own one. That's really not the question at all. When the person being asked is an owner of said style of rifles, it isn't a question of why to the one trying to help and offer advice. It's a question of HOW the potential buyer intends to use the rifle that should drive the choices. If the focus is on why and not how then one will wind up buying a semi-auto mag-fed rifle just to make a political statement and not to actually fulfill a role. It becomes an issue of wasted money vs. smart shopping.

As for the comments hinting that those of us who would rely on mag-fed semi-autos are mall ninjas, consider this: The very second one decides that a firearm is a go-to weapon for defensive purposes, then that firearm is no longer a range toy. It is relied upon day-in and day-out to serve that purpose, even if it never gets called upon for that use. Did you choose it and set it up for that purpose? If it has an optic or light, did you choose trustworthy auxiliary components or the cheapest ones at the local gunshow? If people take the same forward-thinking approach to shotguns or pistols, how does is not then apply to the mag-fed semi-auto rifle?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Whatever justification anyone needs to do whatever is entirely their business. They tend to (and SHOULD) buy what they(we) like that fits their own needs and desires regardless of whether it is "the best they can afford",(baseing somethings usefullness according to it's purchase price is rediculous) or not. I buy what I want for whatever reason I choose. The approval of others is not relevant.

 

[BrocLuno]

Jimmyray - I agree mostly, but the approval of others is important when you go to sell. In the meantime, it's whatever works for you

 

[boricua9mm]

Whatever justification anyone needs to do whatever is entirely their business. They tend to (and SHOULD) buy what they(we) like that fits their own needs and desires regardless of whether it is "the best they can afford",(baseing somethings usefullness according to it's purchase price is rediculous) or not. I buy what I want for whatever reason I choose. The approval of others is not relevant.

The attitude you describe is not one of a person who would go up to someone at a range or shooting club and start asking them questions. The posture you describe is one of someone who already knows (or thinks they know) what the best choice is. In that case, the circumstances of the original post really wouldn't even apply.

Again, this is not about justification. This is about choices based on intended use. Intention, not justification.

 

[d2wing]

This is America. I bought a Corvette because I wanted to. Pure lust. Pretty much our economy is based on prentending you need something when you just want it. We could be like the Amish.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

The attitude you describe is not one of a person who would go up to someone at a range or shooting club and start asking them questions. The posture you describe is one of someone who already knows (or thinks they know) what the best choice is. In that case, the circumstances of the original post really wouldn't even apply.

Again, this is not about justification. This is about choices based on intended use. Intention, not justification.

Reread post #1 and I think you will see that my position clearly is applicable.

 

[boricua9mm]

Reread post #1 and I think you will see that my position clearly is applicable.

Seeing as I'm the person who actually wrote post #1, I'm not seeing how justification to own any type of firearm is derived from anything in what I posted. Once again, this is about selections based off of information gleaned from communicated intentions and what happens when those intentions do not fall in line with reality.

?????

 

[benzy2]

I think in reality very few people buy AR's or other semi auto style rifles for more than playing at the range. Sure some may say home defense and some may say hunting. How many people train with one to know what to do in self defense? Based on the number of classes out there and the size of them, pretty darn few.

It seems to me you see a push online to buy top tier regardless of your available funds. How many times, especially on "tactical" forums do you see people say "that brand is junk, buy the better and more expensive brand"? I seem to see it a lot. I've bought a few bottom tier ARs in the past as well as a few top tiers. Truth be told, I played with them at the range, tossed them in the safe at night, and took them out to go back and play at the range. None of them gave me any issues, but I don't play hard with them. For me, a $600 bottom tier rifle works like a $1500 top tier rifle. That isn't to say the top tier rifle isn't better, just that in my use I don't play with them to the point that the difference matters.

I'm all for taking a big step back, assessing what the rifle will be used for, and buying accordingly. For me, I have never bought or used a rifle for defense, nor trained with one for defense, and hunting with a centerfire around here is limited to game I don't hunt. I use them for range toys. Some range toys are for blasting with little aim and others are for slow accurate fire. These toys are bought with different specs for the different shooting I plan to do with them, but in the end they are always just a toy for me. I'm happy with my selection of budget and expensive rifles, semiauto or not.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Has anyone yet mentioned a primary reason for owning an AR, AK, M1, M1A or other semi-auto military style rifle: civilian marksmanship training for (potential) military volunteer or conscript service?

How many of us recall our military training being three classes and one range session (70 rounds) in basic training. How many threads have we seen where combat veterans recount being handed a Reising on the way to Guadalcanal and allowed to fire one magazine as familiarization?

I am recalling in particular the amicus curiae brief of Maj Gen John D. Altenberg, Jr., et al., in support of Heller in DC v Heller 2008.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

So while many love the Winchester 94 for what it represents, it is way less enjoyable to shoot all day at the range than an AR-15. In my mind, the AR-15 is to early 21st century America what the Winchester was to late 19th century America...the quintessential American firearm that everyone should aspire to own.

As someone that also owns both, I find this to be sheer poetry.

 

[AFDoc]

ARs have been around for a long time, going on what 45 years? I'm retired military, Infantry in fact. I bought an AR mainly because its what I carried in my youth, my glory days. I don't see where I'm any different than some vet who bought a M1 back in '54. Never wanted one while I was in the service.

I completely agree. The ex-military guys I know who hunt prefer the AR because it is a weapon they know well. Nothing more or nothing less.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I wonder if the ex-military who chose to hunt with a trapdoor Springfield, Krag-Jorgenson or '03 Springfield (the service rifle of their youth) had to put up with criticism?

 

[coug]

I find this in almost all fire arms new born commitments, including my own. I have gone through about every phase you can think of... but almost every time I get into a new piece of gun territory I buy beginner level first and then buy the good stuff, then I sell my cheap crap for 1/2 price. wishing I WOULD HAVE GOT THE GOOD STUFF FIRST.. that being said I really thought for many years that a Leupold vx3 or Nikon monarch were some of the best optics around.. Wrong they are toys in todays world. I think that we evolve with these fire arms and optics as we grow older and more experienced.thats all.

 

[signkutter]

I own several rifles and pistols ranging from .308 to 5.56, a couple of .40 cal pistols and a .45. I also own a stroked out saiga 12 gauge drum fed shotgun.

They are all black except for a green Steyr A.U.G bullpup. All are the result of weapon improvements over the years. My AR10 with a Burris 1X4 scope will put rounds in an 8 inch plate at 400 yards consistently.. probably further.. but I am limited by my local gun range. My 5.56 M&P 15T with an ACOG 3X is good for 300 yard groups of 2 inches. The Steyr AUG isnt really any good for anything over 100 yards.. great close quarter gun though.

My point is .. these guns are VERY versital... they do many things very well.. they are lighter than old bolt guns or hunting rifles.. they are much more ergonomically designed and they are designed to shoot all day long without burning the user with exposed hot metal. They are a snap to dissassemlbe and clean.. even repair.

I am also an LEO and a combat vet... really I cant see why I wouldnt want these guns in my possession...

When somebody asks me why I want so many guns and why I keep my marksmanship skills honed.. I can say... its part of my job skills. But I reply.. why wouldnt I want them?

 

[Tirod]

My first hunting rifle was an HK91 with first generation Aimpoint, purchased in the 1970's. Then I bought a Rem 700 stainless with black composite stock. After that, a Win 94. And now I am planning to hunt with a AR15 dissipator in 6.8SPC in a few days.

Self loading rifles have been around since the early 1900's, and they were chosen specifically by hunters precisely because you don't have to work the action, same as auto shotguns. The hunter concentrates on the shot, not the gun.

The durable and typically weather resistant finish also means low maintenance. No pesky cleaning and oiling, complicated dismantling, or climate controlled storage needed. For the hunter who selects his guns based on overall usefulness as a tool, not an icon, military selfloading rifles offer a great deal for the money.

Civilian guns, in comparison, are like desperate housewives that run astray behind your back. They're high maintenance and constantly need attention, rather than pulling their share of the load. Like a collector car, you take them out in good weather to put them on display, and the occasion is really about parading arm candy, a trophy or ornament. "Look what I have!", rather than "Look what I shot."

I hunt with military arms and wear military camo. It works, and works well, without all the social heirarchy of who's Underoos are more expensive.

 

[amd6547]

When my grandfather kept a 1903 Springfield on his bedroom wall along with a bandoleer of clipped 30'06 FMJ, it was a current issue US military rifle...and nobody would have asked why he would need such a thing.
When my WWII vet father desired an M1 Garand, it was considered acceptable, and even encouraged.
Why should it be any different for me to build my own a1 style AR15, or to have a Saiga/Kalashnikov 5.45 in the corner, both of which I enjoy shooting?
When did the exercise of marksmanship practice for personal enjoyment and civic responsibility de-evolve to "he owns a black rifle range toy"?

 

[andre26]

You said it perfect ,thats why use 22 for range 20 bucks 300 rounds .

 

[Ranger30-06]

You said it perfect ,thats why use 22 for range 20 bucks 300 rounds .

Your paying way to much! It's $13 for 550 rounds of .22 LR here!

 

[LoonWulf]

LOL, try hawaii 30 bucks for 500 if your lucky.