Senior Democrat urges Iraq pullout!

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Ezekiel

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Regardless of our varied opinions on this board -- each respected -- I think we can all agree the rhetoric is being turned up. "Game on!", in Washington, DC, and across the nation...

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A Democratic congressional leader on defense called on Thursday for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, increasing pressure for a change in Bush administration policy just days after the Senate asked for a plan to end the war.

"The U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. It is time to bring them home," said Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record) of Pennsylvania, the senior Democrat on the House of Representatives subcommittee that oversees military spending and one of his party's top spokesmen on defense.

Murtha's remarks followed a string of attacks by President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney against critics of the administration's Iraq war policy and its handling of intelligence that led to the war.

Murtha, who has a hawkish voting record and supported the Iraq war but criticized Bush's handling of it, urged the administration to "immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces."

Murtha is a Vietnam War veteran and a retired Marine colonel who has served as a trusted defense adviser to presidents of both parties. He said he will introduce a resolution calling for the return of U.S. forces in Iraq "at the earliest practicable date."

He called the war "a flawed policy wrapped in illusion" and noted a shift in public sentiment against the war.

"The American public is way ahead of the members of Congress," he said. "It's time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk," he said.

Just a handful of Democrats who had opposed the war from the start have called for a quick withdrawal. Most have called on the administration to provide a plan for withdrawal, based on conditions on the ground.

The administration has vehemently opposed any mention of withdrawal timetables, which is calls a "cut and run" strategy that would only fuel the insurgency. It is trying to build up Iraq's military so that U.S. troops can eventually leave.

INSURGENT TARGETS

But Murtha argued that U.S. troops have become the targets who have united the insurgency, and that continued deployments are breaking the military.

He said he believed U.S. troops could be withdrawn within six months. There are 153,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, increased from the usual 138,000 to tighten security for elections in October and December. Another 22,000 troops from U.S. allies are also serving in Iraq.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman, asked about Murtha's proposal, said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and top U.S. military officials had "outlined, I think, adequately ... what the strategy is for the U.S. military there and the conditions that will need to be met in order to be able to start reducing the size of the military force there."

Murtha said a "quick reaction force" should be kept to deal with emergencies in the region, but not with a possible civil war in Iraq. Iraq's stability should be pursued diplomatically, not militarily, he said.

"We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf region," Murtha said.

The Republican-controlled Senate on Tuesday overwhelmingly backed a resolution saying the Iraqis should start taking the lead in their own security next year to allow a phased withdrawal, but it rejected a Democratic resolution demanding that Bush provide an estimated timetable.

Copyright © 2005 Reuters Limited.
 
Pulling the troops out of Iraq just because Harry Reid and a few Democrats lack spine would be the biggest mistake this nation has ever made...

Pulling the troops out of Iraq just because Harry Reid and a few Democrats lack spine would guarantee more 09/11's on our soil....

Since when does the minority party dictate terms?

Dear Rep. John Murtha: Grow Up You Coward!
 
John Murtha just realized that no one had ever heard of him. This is UNTHINKABLE for a politician!

So he decided to do something about it. Cynical ploy, but hey, he wants to get reelected I guess. If he feels this way, then he surely can't have just come to that realization yesterday!

"immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces?"

I'm not in the military, so I don't mean this in any way to be callous. I live in a big military city, so the people who have been and are in harm's way are my neighbors.

But the reason for the military is that we deploy U.S. troops consistent with the security of US soil first, the safety of US civilians not on US soil second, the safety of our real allies third, and the safety of US troops fourth.

We could surely redeploy our troops consistent with their safety by planting them all on a big locked base in Utah with no weapons, no available alcohol, good air conditioning and nice furniture. They could tend gardens with rubber tools and raise flowers for sale. But that's not why we have troops.

This guy is a spokesman on defense?!?
 
The game is on, and I think it's a game that the Dems are going to lose, big time.

The reasons I think they are going to lose are as follows.


1) The only reason they've piled on in recent weeks is because they see Bush's sagging poll numbers and think they see vulnerability.

They have, in my opinion, horribly miscalculated. Yes, there is a certain segment of the population that viscerally hates Dubya. I know. I teach at a public college. I am surrounded by them all the time.

(For example, I yesterday heard one faculty member gloating in an office with a student, and saying over and over, "Bush's poll numbers are down. It's time to take our country BACK from these BASTARDS!!!! The faculty member and the student were discussing the merits of moving out of the country because of the hopeless political situation......)

However, I digress. What the Dems aren't recognizing, in their glee over Bush's low poll numbers, is that a lot of those folks with low opinions of Dubya right now are hardcore Conservatives who don't think Dubya is being anywhere right-wing enough.

Disappointed conservatives aren't really going to translate into big poll numbers for lefist Democrats.........

Most liberals I work around are giddy at the low poll numbers and are making the exact same mistake, and actually honestly and truly believe those poll numbers are low BECAUSE America has finallly "woken up" and has come around to see the truth and light in higher taxes, socialized medicine, abortion on demand, gay marriage, and gun control and total military pullout from everywhere, etc. etc. etc. etc.

But that's not what is going on.

2) A whole stinking lot of the Congresscritters who are beginning to holler and scream "PULL OUT!!" or the Michael Moore classic of "Bush Lied, People Died!" have a little historical problem to deal with.

A whole lot of them, back in 2002, made publically recorded statements saying they believed Saddam had WMD's and that Saddam was a threat, and that Saddam was bad, and we needed to get over there ASAP and kick his dictatorial ass out of Baghdad.

And their little opportunistic dog-pile tactics are going to be rewarded with their own pulic statements and their own recorded hollering and screaming from back in 2002....

that is if Dubya has any political acumen left at all, which is something I have personally doubted for a long time.

hillbilly
 
He said he will introduce a resolution calling for the return of U.S. forces in Iraq "at the earliest practicable date."

What does this mean "at the earliest PRACTICABLE" date????

WHen the Iraqi troops are ready to take over???

Isnt that the current timetable?????

This is just a bunch of hot air to make news.
 
Leatherneck said:
Plenty of us remember vividly the demoralizing effect of the dems denouncing of the Vietnam war while we were still trying to fight it. Murtha needs to have his Mameluke broken over his knee. :fire:

TC

Agreed. Semper Fidelis.

C-
 
Leatherneck said:
Plenty of us remember vividly the demoralizing effect of the dems denouncing of the Vietnam war while we were still trying to fight it. Murtha needs to have his Mameluke broken over his knee. :fire:

TC

Guess it would have been better if nobody had objected, huh? The Wall would be what, twice as long? Three times? Four?

Consider this...if nobody had objected, the politicians sitting safe on their behinds stateside would likely have let it go on and on and on. And there's a good chance you'd have been kept there until you were killed.
 
Camp David said:
Pulling the troops out of Iraq just because Harry Reid and a few Democrats lack spine would be the biggest mistake this nation has ever made...

Pulling the troops out of Iraq just because Harry Reid and a few Democrats lack spine would guarantee more 09/11's on our soil....

Since when does the minority party dictate terms?

Dear Rep. John Murtha: Grow Up You Coward!
Agree with the man or not, calling a Nam vet and a retired Marine Col. a coward isn't appropriate, in my opinion. I would venture to guess that he's been tested.
Biker
 
Leatherneck said:
Plenty of us remember vividly the demoralizing effect of the dems denouncing of the Vietnam war while we were still trying to fight it. Murtha needs to have his Mameluke broken over his knee. :fire:

TC
Yes I remember Walter Cronkite anouncing something similar. That was when the people turned against the war.
I just wonder what those cut and run people don't understand. When Prez. Clinton cut and ran out of Somilia, it emboldened OBL. Running again will lead to the terrorists opening attacks here in this country.:fire:

It seems that politicians just refuse to learn from history.:cuss:
 
Manedwolf said:
Guess it would have been better if nobody had objected, huh? The Wall would be what, twice as long? Three times? Four?

Consider this...if nobody had objected, the politicians sitting safe on their behinds stateside would likely have let it go on and on and on. And there's a good chance you'd have been kept there until you were killed.

Perhaps, but there were other ways to do it. Suggesting that it might be a good idea to review the war, anything but saying "we lost the war". While I wasn't involved in Nam at that point, I remember that emboldened the North and the VC. They knew at that point they coudl just outlast the US.
 
Metaphor?

However, I digress. What the Dems aren't recognizing, in their glee over Bush's low poll numbers, is that a lot of those folks with low opinions of Dubya right now are hardcore Conservatives who don't think Dubya is being anywhere right-wing enough.

Sound analysis. Metaphor?

"I'm an Eagles fan." I've been mad about how they handled the whole Terrell Owens thing. First, I'd have neved signed him. Second, I'd have sat his ass the first time he opened his yap. Second, with Donovan hurt, I'd have immediatley considered the playoffs a longshot and gone for some player development and youth. Basically, this is a cluster and, for me, their approval rating is low.

But that doesn't make me a Cowboys fan.

Personally, I am a centrist and try to evaluate things as they come: but I don't see any new Cowboys fans on the horizon merely because approval rates are dropping.
 
Yes, Ezekiel.........I think the liberals, especially the liberals where I work, are about to get TO'ed big time here.

Cowboys fan......man, did you HAVE to resort to language like that????


C'mon....this the HIGH road, remember??????????????????


hillbilly
 
Guess it would have been better if nobody had objected, huh? The Wall would be what, twice as long? Three times? Four?
President Nixon's "Peace with Honor" program came to a rather speedy conclusion when he sent the B-52s to North Vietnam. Within a few days the North's air defense system was destroyed. The North Vietnamese infrastructure was being destroyed before their eyes.

I know a few former POWs who say the North Vietnamese they saw were terrified when the B-52s came.

One wonders how long the Wall would be if President Johnson had sent the B-52s north after Tet.

Pilgrim
 
The worst thing you can do to the warfighter is not support him with leadership and materiel. Right below that comes moral support from his country. Don't give me this bunghole dribble about "I support the troops but not the war."

The politically savvy islamofascists will perceive this weakness and exploit it.

If you're going to fight a war, for God's sake, fight it to win! :banghead:

TC
 
Anyone read Machiavelli?

How about the part where he recommends having colonies in a conquered land, as opposed to troops:

"But in maintaining armed men there in place of colonies one spends much more, having to consume on the garrison all the income from the state so that the accquisition turns into a loss, and many more are exasperated, because the whole state is injured; through the shifting of the garrison up and down all become acquainted with hardship, and all become hostile, and they are enemies who, whilst beaten on their own ground, are yet able to do hurt. For every reason, therefore, such guards are as useless as a colony is useful."

Funny how things don't change, hundreds of years later, eh? We conquer one of the largest oil producing nations and our price at the pump doubles?

Given how high real estate is in parts of the country, as well as our overcrowded prisons, maybe we should get realtor.com involved to start parceling out the land over there.
 
We're real milquetoasts around here. Here's gunny Bob's take on it. :what:


November 17, 2005
by Bob Newman

In a statement that has angered, embarrassed and humiliated Marines around the globe, one of our own -- a retired Marine Corps Reserve colonel -- has called for the legendary fighting force to retreat from Iraq and surrender to the terrorist organization that has killed thousands of Americans at home and abroad. He has even called for the United States to enter into negotiations with al Qaeda. This vermin's demand for retreat, surrender and negotiations with the enemy is so committed to assisting al Qaeda in their efforts in Iraq that he has posted his unspeakable demands on his website in the form of an official statement.

The traitor, Democratic Rep. John P. Murtha, agrees 100% with Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al Zarqawi that the Marine Corps, which is mangling the enemy on a daily basis in Iraq and suffering comparatively light casualties, should lay down its arms, call it quits, and abandon the people they are defending in the fledgling democracy of Iraq.

Furious Marines from wars as far back as World War II are spitting mad at the cowardly colonel and many want his head on a stake in the middle of the Marine Corps Commandant's lawn. Personally, I would not soil that good earth with so vile and despicable a piece of offal.

Encouraging retreat is viewed as aiding the enemy by the Marines and is a violation of Article 104 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is punishable by death. Currently serving Marines, active duty or reserve, who encourage surrender are in violation of Article 100 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, an offense also punishable by death. Because Murtha is retired, he is virtually assured of not being prosecuted.

However, he will be celebrated by al Qaeda and other terrorists around the world. At this very moment, al Qaeda communications specialists are likely prepping pieces of propaganda using Murtha's traitorous tirade as a tool to recruit fresh killers by showing them that even an American Marine (apologies to Puller) believes his allegedly beloved Corps is so inept in battle that retreat and surrender are the Marines' best option and perhaps should, in fact, be added for the first time to the Leathernecks' vast, quasi-mythical repertoire of operational art and battlefield strategy.

Murtha joins the likes of traitor Clayton Lonetree, the Marine security guard who gave top-secret intelligence to the Soviets, and traitor Robert Garwood, the Marine who went over to the enemy during the Vietnam War and was involved in holding and abusing US prisoners of war in North Vietnam while wearing the uniform of the enemy.

The Marine Corps is famous for its members standing their ground and winning fights against outrageous odds. Battles with names like the Peking Legation, Belleau Wood, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, the Chosin Reservoir, Khe Sanh and Fallujah decorate the hallowed halls of Corps history. Especially repugnant is how Murtha is insisting upon surrender while the Marines are decimating the enemy en masse.

Marines should ask Murtha if Chesty Puller would order retreat and surrender before the enemy.

John "The Jellyfish" Murtha should be shunned by all Marines and, if possible, legal steps should be taken to prevent this betrayer from being buried in a national cemetery upon his demise.

Newman, a decorated, retired US Marine, is host of the “Gunny Bob Show” on Newsradio 850 KOA in Denver, and host of “Inhuman Newman’s Anger-Management Hour” on 630 KHOW, also in Denver.
 
They knew at that point they coudl just outlast the US.

Just as they outlasted the Chinese, the Japanese, and the French.

The US had NO right to be there. None.
 
javafiend said:
The US had NO right to be there. None.

Because, you know, trying to help a free people from communist enslavement was an immoral thing for the US to do. Just like democratic college punks sending NVA care packages, waving thier flags and spitting on our service members was a moral thing to do to protest it.

C-
 
trying to help a free people from communist enslavement was an immoral thing for the US to do.

Please. If Iraq were a 3rd-world nation in Africa or South America we wouldn't give a damn. This is not about "enslavement".
 
Yeah, it was a damn good thing the US got out of Vietnam and stayed away from the related takeover of Cambodia in the 70s. That allowed the sovereign governments to slaughter the innocent without our interference. What's a million or two dead people, if they're non-caucasian, right?

BTW later statements by Murtha are that we need to "shiite or get off the pot" in Iraq -- mobilize troops and boost troop strength, or pull out -- a bit different from how his statements have been presented, and words that might well be expected from a Vietnam vet.
 
we need to "shiite or get off the pot" in Iraq -- mobilize troops and boost troop strength, or pull out
I'm down with that. This 'stay to course' strategy isn't winning and won't win. 'War' is where your goal is to utterly defeat your enemy with overwhelming force. So far this 'war' has been one of tippytoeing political correctness and 'sensitivity training' while our guys get killed in onesies and twosies. The vote tonight will/should put the administration on notice that it doesn't have unlimited time, money, and lives to continue to squander. Win it, win it now, and get the hell out.
 
It is not possible for the US to get out right now.... We need to do our best get out as soon as possible.... but however is asking for a pullout now is not being serious.
 
Did anyone take the time to read his full statement? I doubt most of you did. PLease read through his entire statment before jumping to conclusions about what he said. He does bring up many good points about the situation in Iraq, and the need for the US to leave.
 
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