Series 70 vs Series 80: What Are The Major Differences?

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Im just wondering what the differences are between a Colt series 70 gov model and a Colt series 80 gov model.

I hear people badmouth the series 80 and I'd like to know why.

Thanks!
 
I hear people badmouth the series 80 and I'd like to know why.

The bulk of it is the firing pin block, many claim it "ruins" the trigger. It does increase the take up a bit, but these days no mass market gun has a trigger to brag about, still the worst 1911 trigger is still better than the best of the rest in terms of crispness and short reset.
 
I knew about the firing pin safety but thought maybe there was a difference in quality control as well. I didnt know the series 80 system was known to increase take up and pull weight. Good to know!
 
and if you're talking about a true Colt Series 70 1911...

it has a collet bushing to apply tension to a flared muzzle. the problem was that the fingers were known to snap off, due to QC issues with the slide, and tie up the action
 
Only those guns without a firing pin block (the original design), the "springy-finger" barrel bushing and the rather garish "billboard" slide markings that said "Series 70" are properly called Series 70. With that out of the way, the difference between the original design (think of it as "pre-Series 80" if you wish) and Series 80 is the addition of a trigger-actuated firing pin block. If done properly, these can have a perfectly good trigger pull, it just takes a little more skill on the part of the gunsmith or the factory assembler. Since it has been around for 27 years now, I think they should have "gotten the hang of it" by now. ;)
 
posted by TLH
Only those guns without a firing pin block (the original design), the "springy-finger" barrel bushing and the rather garish "billboard" slide markings that said "Series 70" are properly called Series 70.

when speaking about the Colt 1911 pistols, the things that set the Series 70 apart from the pre-Series 70 1911s were the slide markings Series 70, the flaring of the muzzle end of the barrel and the collet bushing with the "springy-fingers". the barrel and it's bushing is what defines the Series 70 1911. just because people want ot overlook that chapter of Colt history doesn't make it go away

how could you refer to a Colt 1911 produced before 1970 as a Series 70?
 
I have a Series 80 (new in 1990) with (after a trigger job) has one of the best triggers you have ever pulled and it's the stock trigger reworked by one of the best gunsmiths in the USSR of C. Cost in 1992 was $50.00. Pull weight is 2 3/4 lbs. Very little takeup and NO movement after the hammer falls.
 
That link pretty well covers how the firing pin block works in an 80 Sereis COLT... 2 little levers (in the frame) that lift a little round drum under a tiny spring (in the slide)....

I love how some 1911 purist talk crap about the firing pin block that COLT desgined.... every modern pistol built in the last 35yrs has something similar. IMO people just have to have something to complain about.

One thing that has been posted that I have a disagreement with - If you look at how it (F/P Block) operates you can see that it could in NO WAY increase the take up in a 1911's trigger, (that is controlled by the depth of the hammer full cock hook and the trigger bow to sear free travel distance). It does add a certain amount of increased friction/drag (from the 2 levers and spring pressure in the FP block itself)... Just how much is the subject of much debate.

Now, I'll wager in a double blind test most people couldn't determine any difference in the trigger pull of a properly working stock 70 Series and a properly working stock 80 Series COLT. I own a numerouse examples of each and if the gun is working properly the difference between them with a stock trigger pull is neglible.

On a second note - the parts are really easy to remove if you just couldn't live with in there.

I hold no ill will towards the 80 Series guns. I actually like them, since people seem to think they are somehow worth less and I can buy them as such.
Will
 
One additional change not mentioned is that the half cock notch was replaced with the safety "shelf" system in the 80 series pistol.
 
I too get a little confused by this topic . I am glad that Smartshooter45 brought this topic up .
I have a Colt 1991A1 from 1995 I got it new and love it . I never had any troubles with it . Anything I should be worried about or look to replace ?
 
One thing that has been posted that I have a disagreement with - If you look at how it (F/P Block) operates you can see that it could in NO WAY increase the take up in a 1911's trigger,

And you would be correct...except for one little thing. It's determined by the distance from the trigger stirrup to the disconnect. The trigger never touches the sear.

Aside from that...bingo.
 
I own three Gold Cups; one Series 70, and two Series 80( 1 blued and 1 SS) and I'll bet anyone a case of beer that they can not tell the difference between any of them. In fact my SS Series 80 actually seems the best of the lot. All were acquired new and never been touch except to tighten the loose front sight on my Series 70 pistol. BTW, my SS Series 80 was acquired in a even trade with a local dealer for a CMP Garand with proper s/n and barrel dates, actual cost to me 160.00.
 
It's determined by the distance from the trigger stirrup to the disconnect. The trigger never touches the sear.

:what: So that's what that little bar thingy, with the oblong hole in the middle is I had left over after I put my 1911 back together....

:uhoh: I can't believe I left the disconnect out of my explanation.... Sheer hurried stupidy, that's what I get for not proof reading my post.

Just so THR knows, DON'T rely on rklessdriver to explain 1911 fire control group functionality. :D

Thanks Tuner.
Will
 
Well, geez--if the trigger block bothers ya, Brownells sells a little filler and a plug for about $15 that replaces the whole mess. It hasn't caused me a problem, so mine is intact. The gun functions well (strange enough for a 1911), so I don't mess with it...<g>
 
There's a lot of good advice here, but I think there's some grey areas I can add to.

1) While I agree the collet bushing was the "defining" characteristic of the '70 Series, it did appear on both pre-70 guns and 80 guns. Huh?

a) in 1968 and 1969, Colt sold and tested limited numbers of "BB" guns. These were serialized in the standard "C" range like other commercial pistols, but were equipped with the collet bushing and were suffixed "BB" on the serial number (barrel bushing). These show up from time to time, so if someone tells you they have a pre-70 collet bushing gun, they MIGHT be rigth, but these guns are rare.

b) Colt used the collet bushing for five to six years after the introduction of the 80 Series (1983). They did not stop using it until 1988/89. Thus, the defining feature of the 80 is the firing pin safety and not the lack of a collet bushing.

2) Trigger pull:

a) Weigth: I've done some tests various guns and have found a range of additional trigger pull added buy the f.p. safety system ("fps") to run from six to 10 ounces, with an average of 8 ounces. So, if your fiinger is calibrated to the ability to distinguish 1/2 pound or less, you could tell the difference if you were to compare a single gun with the system installed or removed. But it won't be readily apparent between random factory guns as there's that much variance overall between guns, and also between a new-ish gun and a well broken-in one.

b) Creep/feel: I believe most of the slam on the 80 fps was because of a general increase in the average quality of the trigger in the guns between the '70s and the late '80s. Most stock GM's, Deltas, and CE's I've sample or own that were still stock and made from '87 to '97 tended to have creepy triggers. I have personally experimented and my conclusion is that it was attributable to the hammers and how they were machined. Taking out the stock period 80 system hammers and putting more modern ones or older ones made dramatic improvements.

So there's some more fodder for debate. To address the very first question, though:

Im just wondering what the differences are between a Colt series 70 gov model and a Colt series 80 gov model.

If you take a first year Series 80 GM and lay it next to a last year Series '70, you are going to find only TWO differences:

1) different cosmetic roll marks on the slide
2) the presence of the firing pin system.

Those are the only true "changes" because of the introduction of the 80 Series. Other differences you might find came because of ancillary engineering changes down the road, and there have been a lot of changes since then. The current production guns coming from Colt have fantastic, light, crisp triggers whether pre-80 (WWI models, Series '70 re-stamp) or 80 fps style (1991 models, XSE's, etc).
 
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a) in 1968 and 1969, Colt sold and tested limited numbers of "BB" guns. These were serialized in the standard "C" range like other commercial pistols, but were equipped with the collet bushing and were suffixed "BB" on the serial number (barrel bushing). These show up from time to time, so if someone tells you they have a pre-70 collet bushing gun, they MIGHT be rigth, but these guns are rare.

Yep, they sure did. Known as research and development...or testing the waters if your prefer...many manufacturers slip a new modification into the market as a way of getting the buying public to help them work out the bugs via warranty returns. More common than one might suspect.

Colt used the collet bushing for five to six years after the introduction of the 80 Series (1983). They did not stop using it until 1988/89. Thus, the defining feature of the 80 is the firing pin safety and not the lack of a collet bushing.

Right again. Colt has always practiced never throwing anything useful away, and installing overrun "obsolete" parts into newly developed designs. Parts cost money. They had X number of perfectly good Accurizer barrels and collet bushings in inventory. Tossing them in the scrap barrel just because the Series 70 run ended would have been both wasteful and foolish at a time when they were struggling to stay afloat.
 
On the trigger pull question...

If a skilled trigger man were to do identical work with identical parts in two pistols...one Series 80 and one pre-80...you might realize an increase in pull weight of about 2-3 ounces in the Series 80 gun from the plunger spring. Brother...if you can detect a 2 ounce difference with the tip of your finger while pulling a trigger...you should be a neurosurgeon.
 
I appreciate those that bring back sanity on this subject. Yeah, I have both Series and find the firing pin block an asset....I really think deep down is that many pistoleros just don't like the extra step in removal when detail cleaning.
 
The Kimber firing pin block system (patented by Colt, but never used in production as far as I know) run by the grip safety, instead of the trigger is more hassle on re-assembly IMHO.
 
I have dryfired several new production series 80 Colts in the last few months, and generally, I find the trigger pulls just fine, and much better then they were a few years ago.

I used to own a series 80 Lightweight Commander, and it had a pretty rough trigger pull from the factory. I left it that way, because it was still plenty good enough, and it was a carry gun for me, so I really didn't want or need a light trigger pull.

However, I own one older Series 70 gov, a Wilson Combat, and a Springfield, and recently purchased a brand new reissue series 70 gov. I still prefer series 70 type 1911's, because they are simpler, and and eaiser to take apart, completely.

And I own a Kimber Tatical Ultra II with the firing pin safety. So far it works OK, but some of the parts look micky mouse, and you have to remove the rear sight to take the extractor out, if need be, I wish it did not have the firing pin safety. Even though Kimber makes some neat 1911's, I doubt I purchase another type II, because I don't like the firing pin block parts. Of course I could just remove the offending parts, but for a selfdefense gun, that could cause extra legal issues, if it was actually used in a self defense shooting.
 
Of course I could just remove the offending parts, but for a selfdefense gun, that could cause extra legal issues, if it was actually used in a self defense shooting.

Certainly possible, given some of the Smoke'n'Mirror Magic shows that are observed in many courtrooms, but it's actually the civil liability if the gun is ever involved in an accidental shooting with a safety device altered or disabled that I'd be more concerned with...or possibly the civil suit after the criminal justice system handed you a No Bill on a legitimate shooting. Civil actions are a completely different animal, with a different set of rules of engagement in play.
 
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