Series 80 1911's

[Vern Humphrey]

I think the series 80 is what Jeff Cooper would call an unsatisfactory solution to a non-existent problem. I don't have one, although I have shot quite a few. To my way of thinking the trigger is the key to handgun accuracy -- and series 70s can have a bit better trigger.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

So what does Jeff Cooper think of firing pin block safeties in Glocks, Berettas, and SIGs? Surely those pistols have earned their place and all have functioning firing pin safeties. Still an unsatisfactory solution to a non-existent problem?

 

[AK103K]

Ive owned a number of the Series 80's Colts, and never had an issue with the firing pin block. I prefer carrying the 80's.

Ive also owned a bunch of the 70's and a few "pre 70's" as well.

Never noticed a difference in the triggers between the two. Out of around 40 1911's Ive owned, Ive only had one that I thought was bad, and it was on a Series 70 "kit" gun. Just a junk trigger. I replaced it with a stock GI trigger and it was fine.

Ive never been trigger phobic, and over the decades, have only had a couple of guns that had trigger work done, and they came with the gun when I bought it.

These days, I carry Glocks, and I dont mind their triggers at all, and I shoot them just as well as my 1911's. Must be a software issue.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

So what does Jeff Cooper think of firing pin block safeties in Glocks, Berettas, and SIGs? Surely those pistols have earned their place and all have functioning firing pin safeties. Still an unsatisfactory solution to a non-existent problem?

Jeff Cooper is dead.

He called guns like those you mention "crunchentickers."

 

[entropy]

Yes. It does not suggest a problem as much as a stubborn refusal to adjust to the modern world.

I removed mine from my Taurus beacuse it was locking the action up. They are MIM in the Taurus, and mine wore down and started flopping around casuing the action to lock up. It did also remove the mushiness, which I don't mind one bit.

So what does Jeff Cooper think of firing pin block safeties in Glocks, Berettas, and SIGs? Surely those pistols have earned their place and all have functioning firing pin safeties. Still an unsatisfactory solution to a non-existent problem?

Since Cooper's term for the Glock was the 'crunchenticker', I don't think he thought too highly of them.

Many people back in the day, myself and Col. Cooper included, did a type of shooting called "Bullseye" Some of the tactical types may have heard of it. It required a good, non-mushy trigger to excel at it. The 1911 was the king of Bullseye, which sadly was on it's way out when the Series 80 with it's Swartz safety (the 1911 already had 3-how many do you need?) sounded it's death knell.

Some of us Luddite curmudgeonly types still like to occasionally shoot a little Bullseye from time to time.

 

[JTQ]

The 1911 ... the Series 80 with it's Swartz safety ...

You alluded to this in your earlier post.

For clarity, the Series 80 and the Swartz safety are two completely different firing pin safeties.

 

[Mike .45]

I have 4 1911's with series 70 style trigger and 3 with series 80 style triggers. I used to think that the series 70 was the only way to go but slowly one of my series 80 pistols became my favorite 1911 and not only is it a series 80 it has a rail!!

If I am being 100% honest. I can barely feel a difference and usually I can't feel it at all when shooting and can only feeling when I dry fire them.

 

[entropy]

You alluded to this in your earlier post.

For clarity, the Series 80 and the Swartz safety are two completely different firing pin safeties.

True; and the 'cure' I mentioned was for the Series 80......can't even blame that one on the meds....maybe the lack of them! FWIW, I believe the best way remove a Swartz safety is to sell the Kimber......If it's an old Colt, just shoot it as is.

 

[mavracer]

I prefer my 1911s without a FPB IMHO it's a fix for a non existent problem.
But I have a couple with them one Kimber wit the Swartz intact, 2 80 series Colts that are intact, my old Delta elite has the aforementioned delete kit in it when I turned it into a Computer gun in the 90s

 

[WVsig]

If you understand how the Colt 80 series safety works you can make the trigger every bit as good as a 70 series. I have spoken to a few highly regarded 1911 smiths about this over the years. Don Williams, Harrison, Garthwaite, Cogan, West & Yost all work on 80 series pistols and can make excellent bulleye or fighting pistols out of an 80 series gun. I personally prefer 70 series guns but have a few 80s in the safe. I believe that people who think you cannot have a top tier trigger on a 80 series simply have not shot one beyond as they come straight from the factory. A good smith can take the 80 series to near perfection just like they can take a 70 series and do the same. IMHO YMMV

 

[Zerodefect]

Recutting the 1911 sear so that it had a mushy break, increases accuracy a bit.

Best sear I ever had was a ruined MIM piece. Glass rod, it was not.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Ruger, of course, has no firing pin safety and needs none -- it has a titanium firing pin, which will pass the California drop test.

If you understand how the Colt 80 series safety works you can make the trigger every bit as good as a 70 series. I have spoken to a few highly regarded 1911 smiths about this over the years. Don Williams, Harrison, Garthwaite, Cogan, West & Yost all work on 80 series pistols and can make excellent bulleye or fighting pistols out of an 80 series gun. I personally prefer 70 series guns but have a few 80s in the safe. I believe that people who think you cannot have a top tier trigger on a 80 series simply have not shot one beyond as they come straight from the factory. A good smith can take the 80 series to near perfection just like they can take a 70 series and do the same. IMHO YMMV

If the gun will not perform as I want straight from the factory, I will go to a different factory!!

 

[Slamfire]

Recutting the 1911 sear so that it had a mushy break, increases accuracy a bit.

Best sear I ever had was a ruined MIM piece. Glass rod, it was not.

One of the better Bullseye Pistol shooters I know, he bought a sear device that made his trigger almost a two stage trigger. There is a little bit of takeup before the final release.

He shot this, with that:



He kept his 50 yard slow fire targets, they were about the size of these 25 yard timed fired groups.

 

[Zerodefect]

Yep.

Like comparing a 2011 to a CZ Tso. The CZ has a ton of creep, but that creep makes for a mushy break that's less likely to throw my shot off. Sights don't even move during dryfire.

 

[WVsig]

Ruger, of course, has no firing pin safety and needs none -- it has a titanium firing pin, which will pass the California drop test.

If the gun will not perform as I want straight from the factory, I will go to a different factory!!

Then I doubt you are shooting the best trigger you possibly can. Sorry but most factory triggers are not the best of the breed. When one makes claims that they want the best but refuses to acknowledge that some of the best 1911 builders in the world can make a 80 series sing it makes me question the claim to to be a 1911 trigger purist. But whatever to each their own.

 

[CoalTrain49]

It's a thing just like a lot of people won't own a Smith and Wesson with a lock.

When I was buying Colts new there wasn't a series 70 pistol available. That is more or less a recent offering. Do I care? No. Would I buy a new 70 before I bought another 80, maybe. The triggers on my 80's are just fine tho. I shoot them all with no regret. Personally, I'm more interested with the slide/frame and barrel/bushing matchup. I have a S80 that is tight from the factory and shoots very well. Probably one in 100. Best production pistol I've ever shot.

 

[cfullgraf]

If I remember correctly, and note that I have slept a bit since then, when the Series 80 Colt M1911s were introduced in the 1980s they were not well received. The competition shooters were not happy with the Series 80 design and fussed about the poor trigger on the Series 80 pistols.

Colt, at the time, pretty much did away with the Series 70 design. Other manufacturers still manufactured the Series 70 design and it helped with their popularity. Obviously, Colt has reintroduced Series 70 pistols along with the Series 80.

Over time, gunsmiths have developed methods to improve the Series 80 triggers and they can be competitive with Series 70 pistols.

I bought my first M1911 around 1980 and it is a Series 70 Government Model. The second was a 38 Super originally built in the 1950s. The third was an Auto Ordinance M1911, a Series 70 style, purchased around 1990. I bought my first Series 80 Colt M1911 in 38 Super around 2008 and have purchased a few since then. For my purposes, I cannot tell the difference between the general service Series 70 and the general service Series 80.

If I were to compete today with an M1911 pistol, I'd still plan on using a Series 70 design. It has fewer "stuff" to tune and more knowledge about the requirements for tuning. But, a Series 80 design would be fine for all other purposes.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Then I doubt you are shooting the best trigger you possibly can. Sorry but most factory triggers are not the best of the breed. When one makes claims that they want the best but refuses to acknowledge that some of the best 1911 builders in the world can make a 80 series sing it makes me question the claim to to be a 1911 trigger purist. But whatever to each their own.

I have one of the early Kimbers with a superb trigger -- just like it came from the factory. In those days, Wilson railed against Kimber with ads saying, "You can't buy a $2,000 pistol for $600." But you could.

Kimber set a new standard for M1911s, and we all owe them a debt for that.

 

[WVsig]

I have one of the early Kimbers with a superb trigger -- just like it came from the factory. In those days, Wilson railed against Kimber with ads saying, "You can't buy a $2,000 pistol for $600." But you could.

Kimber set a new standard for M1911s, and we all owe them a debt for that.

Yup and since those early days they have shipped more crappy 1911s than any other manufacturer. These days you are paying a lot of money for cheap poorly machined materials with nice finishes. They are the worst value in 1911s.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Yup and since those early days they have shipped more crappy 1911s than any other manufacturer. These days you are paying a lot of money for cheap poorly machined materials with nice finishes. They are the worst value in 1911s.

So what? MY Kinber is the best M1911 I've ever owned.

 

[WVsig]

So what? MY Kinber is the best M1911 I've ever owned.

Very insightful. When they move back to Clakamas and start building them like they used to then your comments will be relevant.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Very insightful. When they move back to Clakamas and start building them like they used to then your comments will be relevant.

But yours will not.

 

[JTQ]

Very insightful. When they move back to Clakamas and start building them like they used to then your comments will be relevant.

They never made 1911's in Clackamas, Oregon. It may have been corporate headquarters at one time, but all Kimber 1911's have been made in New York.

 

[cw308]

I carry a Colt New Agent in 45ACP it has a 3" barrel with the 80 series firing pin stop , 3 inchers are supposed to be finicky but this 1911 is 100% reliable with almost 2000 round count using 230 gr FMJ's , came with CT Laser grips was a first for me but I just love shooting this little accurate pistol.

 

[nettlle]

A typical Series 80 verses Series 70 thread of which I have read hundreds before I purchased my 70 Series.

I am by no means saying that the 70 Series is any better than the 80 Series. There is certainly less drama attached when purchasing a 70 Series.