Servicio Aventuras vs. CCI Primers Updated Nov.3

[lordpaxman]

The loads/shots were not chronographed, but were made at an indoor gun store range. I have more of each lot of cartridges and will compare them again next week in a different revolver just for curiosity. I'll update the results.

If possible, a blind test may show a difference. Have someone put the samples in different boxes labeled A and B. A chrono may also show some differences.

 

[MikeInOr]

I load practice and carry rounds. I stick with CCI because I know they are reliable. I appreciate this thread and hearing people are having good results with the foreign primers. I am not ready to switch yet but I might give them a try sometime.

 

[dannyd]

Does not the LNL have an adjustable 'foot' on the primer seat? My ProJector does...

The LNL only has an alignment adjustment using the guide wire to center the primer. The primer seater is fixed once in place with no adjustments.

 

[dannyd]

I load practice and carry rounds. I stick with CCI because I know they are reliable. I appreciate this thread and hearing people are having good results with the foreign primers. I am not ready to switch yet but I might give them a try sometime.

Depends on how much you practice, I have shot 11,496 rounds this year if I used CCI primers only my cost would be double for the same outcome.

I only carry factory ammunition on the rare occasions I do carry. If I have to go to court I want a factory representative to explain about the ammunition because I will probably be worrying about other things.

Please, I am not asking anyone to switch because that keeps the price low for me.

 

[Charlie98]

The LNL only has an alignment adjustment using the guide wire to center the primer. The primer seater is fixed once in place with no adjustments.

That stinks.

 

[Charlie98]

I have shot 11,496 rounds this year if I used CCI primers only my cost would be double for the same outcome.

The OP's account is not the first time I've heard of ignition problems with the SA primers. I spend the money on CCI primers because I like reliable handloads. The cost of primers is in no way an indicator of reliability... I had Winchester primers that perforated on me... so I don't 'spend the money' on Winchester primers anymore, either.

 

[dannyd]

That stinks.

Doesn't stink works fine if the user takes the time to set it up right from the being.

 

[dannyd]

The OP's account is not the first time I've heard of ignition problems with the SA primers. I spend the money on CCI primers because I like reliable handloads. The cost of primers is in no way an indicator of reliability... I had Winchester primers that perforated on me... so I don't 'spend the money' on Winchester primers anymore, either.

It's a hobby so everyone needs to do what they want to do.

 

[Charlie98]

Doesn't stink works fine if the user takes the time to set it up right from the being.

Most mechanical parts wear. When my 30 year old ProJector primer seat wore in a little, I just adjusted the threaded foot under the ram... I didn't have to glue a penny to the press.

 

[rperyam]

I ended up buying SA small pistol primers when they first came out. My Beretta 92 had and still has trouble with them. Constant failure to fire with different brass and reloads. My Glocks and Kahrs were great with these primers as well as my Springfield EMP. Yesterday I had constant ftf with the EMP. In the end they all fired, but some took as many as 8 tries before they fired.

I also have problems with them in my revolvers. My S&W revolvers have lots of ftf while my Python only has that problem occasionally. Since buying more American primers, I’ve moved these SA primers to the back shelf for use only when I’m out of the ones I trust.

 

[dannyd]

Most mechanical parts wear. When my 30 year old ProJector primer seat wore in a little, I just adjusted the threaded foot under the ram... I didn't have to glue a penny to the press.

Never used a ProJector, so I don't know, I only comment on things I have used.

 

[dannyd]

I ended up buying SA small pistol primers when they first came out. My Beretta 92 had and still has trouble with them. Constant failure to fire with different brass and reloads. My Glocks and Kahrs were great with these primers as well as my Springfield EMP. Yesterday I had constant ftf with the EMP. In the end they all fired, but some took as many as 8 tries before they fired.

I also have problems with them in my revolvers. My S&W revolvers have lots of ftf while my Python only has that problem occasionally. Since buying more American primers, I’ve moved these SA primers to the back shelf for use only when I’m out of the ones I trust.

I have only used them in Ruger revolvers, so I can't speak to any other revolver vender.

I don't own any semiautomatic guns, so can speak about those ether.

It's a hobby so have fun, I have loaded 208,955 rounds in 34 years and casted about same amount of bullets.

 

[packetloss]

There are a few youtube videos up talking about tests with S&A primers. It seems even in the best of situations you will end up with a few FTF. Some have even speculated that they are SRPs that they package as SPP. Either way they certainly have issues with weak firing pins.

I've never had a FTF with CCI primers (I've personally loaded over 30K rounds with CCI primers).

With that being said, I'm still nursing my existing stock of CCI primers (I do have a few years worth left), but will not pay $80+ for 1000. So I've been looking for some alternatives. Clearly S&A is not it.

MKE, ZSR and Ginex seem to be reported as much more acceptable. Not up to CCI standards, but at least close.

Anyone have any good/bad experience with these 3? (MKE/ZSR/Ginex)

 

[dannyd]

I have used Aguila's there a little snug but go bang and Murom they work just like the rest. Personally I have had more CCI's ftf than any other primer 16 overall. I also use Cheddite shotgun primers too without any problems.

 

[dannyd]

There are a few youtube videos up talking about tests with S&A primers. It seems even in the best of situations you will end up with a few FTF. Some have even speculated that they are SRPs that they package as SPP. Either way they certainly have issues with weak firing pins.

I've never had a FTF with CCI primers (I've personally loaded over 30K rounds with CCI primers).

With that being said, I'm still nursing my existing stock of CCI primers (I do have a few years worth left), but will not pay $80+ for 1000. So I've been looking for some alternatives. Clearly S&A is not it.

MKE, ZSR and Ginex seem to be reported as much more acceptable. Not up to CCI standards, but at least close.

Anyone have any good/bad experience with these 3? (MKE/ZSR/Ginex)

CCI and Winchester if everything ever goes back to normal the new price will be 79.99 msrp and maybe 59.00 on sale.

When I started a sleeve of Winchester Small pistol was less than 50.00 for 5,000, so it's what your willing to pay to shoot.

 

[packetloss]

CCI and Winchester if everything ever goes back to normal the new price will be 79.99 msrp and maybe 59.00 on sale.

When I started a sleeve of Winchester Small pistol was less than 50.00 for 5,000, so it's what your willing to pay to shoot.

American reloading has CCI SPP for $350 for 5000. They also have Ginex for $310. Those prices include shipping and hazmat.

I do think primers will drop back to $45-$50. Even with inflation, they will be making more at that price than they did at $30 3 years ago. The problem is people freaked out and started paying whatever price was asked. If stock is limited, who wouldn't sell for the highest they can get. Eventually, there will be enough primers that they will start to sit on the shelf (and probably never move off the shelf at $70+). I'm actually surprised that powdervalley and midsouth still list primers at $95 + shipping and hazmat. At this point I don't see who would buy from them at those prices when they are almost freely available at lower prices.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Thanks for your insights.

The loads/shots were not chronographed, but were made at an indoor gun store range. I have more of each lot of cartridges and will compare them again next week in a different revolver just for curiosity. I'll update the results.
My guns all have factory original springs and still some of the SA primers do not ignite on the first strike. All the CCI primers were well behaved. I don't plan to purchase more SA primers as long as American primers are available.

Curious as to the differences if any ,another powder might have as to accuracy issues . I Don't use or have those primers and probably the " Only " Primer brand I Don't have . Otherwise I'd test it myself . Interesting post though and appreciate YOU doing the test .
Too often MANY of us become complacent in our reloading and as a result of outages shortages ,resort to using other components .
Makes ME wonder how many people actually do test substitutions ,rather than just blowing it off as a " Bad Load " and move away from it .

Food for thought for sure .

 

[BushMaster-15]

CCI and Winchester if everything ever goes back to normal the new price will be 79.99 msrp and maybe 59.00 on sale.

When I started a sleeve of Winchester Small pistol was less than 50.00 for 5,000, so it's what your willing to pay to shoot.

When I started reloading dirt was NEW ,so MANY of MY friends remind ME .

However CCi spp & srp were $4.85 a K and in 2006 I paid $ 32.45-34.65 per 5K for Federal GM Match & Magnum in case lot quantities .

I still have a few individual primer boxes of #100 ,with retail stickers for $0.62 & $0. 71 on them from a LGS I used to purchase from .

Try $ 3.87 a lb. for IMR retail and in BULK less than $ 2.00 a lb. ,those were the days of BARGAINS .

 

[dannyd]

When I started reloading dirt was NEW ,so MANY of MY friends remind ME .

However CCi spp & srp were $4.85 a K and in 2006 I paid $ 32.45-34.65 per 5K for Federal GM Match & Magnum in case lot quantities .

I still have a few individual primer boxes of #100 ,with retail stickers for $0.62 & $0. 71 on them from a LGS I used to purchase from .

Try $ 3.87 a lb. for IMR retail and in BULK less than $ 2.00 a lb. ,those were the days of BARGAINS .

That was just the price at that time in history, were they Bargains not really if you do the math and a just for inflation.

I don't let powder or primers sit on the self that long , so I don't have any much over two years old.

 

[dannyd]

American reloading has CCI SPP for $350 for 5000. They also have Ginex for $310. Those prices include shipping and hazmat.

I do think primers will drop back to $45-$50. Even with inflation, they will be making more at that price than they did at $30 3 years ago. The problem is people freaked out and started paying whatever price was asked. If stock is limited, who wouldn't sell for the highest they can get. Eventually, there will be enough primers that they will start to sit on the shelf (and probably never move off the shelf at $70+). I'm actually surprised that powdervalley and midsouth still list primers at $95 + shipping and hazmat. At this point I don't see who would buy from them at those prices when they are almost freely available at lower prices.

For me it's not about the money because I have more money than time left to shoot, so I buy what I need. The foreign primers were just a challenge that has worked for me, because people that never used them told me they will not work.

I have no Idea what the price will eventually be, but I would to shoot another 100,000 before I am done.

 

[BushMaster-15]

That was just the price at that time in history, were they Bargains not really if you do the math and a just for inflation.

I don't let powder or primers sit on the self that long , so I don't have any much over two years old.

Normal pricing is subject to too many variables . However NORMAL pricing was far less % wise based upon wages then ,than NOW .
Allowing primers or powders to sit on a shelf has NO relevancy in their pricing .
For the record neither do I .
By MY best calculation I've Re loaded in excess of 300K 12 & 20 gauge shotshells ,in addition to the #18 various calibers I currently load for .
When I started reloading I only reloaded 7mm Rem Mag ,.44 Magnum and 9mm in the 60's . I didn't even shoot shotgun competitively or reload for them until mid 70's .

 

[dannyd]

Normal pricing is subject to too many variables . However NORMAL pricing was far less % wise based upon wages then ,than NOW .
Allowing primers or powders to sit on a shelf has NO relevancy in their pricing .
For the record neither do I .
By MY best calculation I've Re loaded in excess of 300K 12 & 20 gauge shotshells ,in addition to the #18 various calibers I currently load for .
When I started reloading I only reloaded 7mm Rem Mag ,.44 Magnum and 9mm in the 60's . I didn't even shoot shotgun competitively or reload for them until mid 70's .

You were lucky I was deployed to much in 70's and early 80's to do any reloading.

 

[Akula69]

In a random run of primers on Ammoseek, it appears the majority of the .05 cent primers are the Servicios, and they don't seem to be moving well. I suggest the folks here and other posts I've seen on the 'web are a big contributor to that.

I had 'inherited' a sleeve of the SP a while back and loaded one ladder of 9MM with them. When shot out of the G19 I had 3 FTF in a mag of 17 rounds...which was enough for me to swear off of them (even if TSHTF).

 

[BushMaster-15]

You were lucky I was deployed to much in 70's and early 80's to do any reloading.

I was Uncle Sammy's Southeast Asian point man in latter 60's , I replaced fellow Screaming Eagles after Tet in February 68 . I had started reloading in 1966 ,so just a Pup .

 

[Nature Boy]

I’m not good enough with a pistol to shoot the difference but with a rifle different primers have a measurable impact on accuracy. Testing primers is my last step in load development.