Setting up a camp

[abominableSnowman]

a group of buds and myself want to take to the wilderness and set up camp for a while. basically survive on our own without any outside assistance and this includes building a shelter, hunting, trapping, and fishing for food. where can we legally do something like this? the first place that came to mind was the Alaskan wilderness. i read something about a homestead permit. is there any such thing as a homestead permit? do we need a permit? do we need a hunting, fishing, and/or trapping permit?

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Do you camp regularly?

 

[Art Eatman]

There will be laws and regulations about hunting/fishing/trapping no matter where you go, so that's a first step in the learning process.

"Shelter" is rather broad. On public lands, tree-cutting may well be restricted. Tents are commonly okay. Use of dead trees is usually okay. You need to know what the fire regulations are.

I strongly suggest that you look for books about edible plants in whatever area you expect to try. You'd be surprised at how many plants there are and how much is available in the way of veggies.

IOW,, lots of homework before worrying about gear.

 

[mcwjr13]

Have you read "Into the Wild" ?

 

[dagger dog]

Most National Forest within the lower 48 have a time restriction on camps, most have a limit under 2 weeks and camp must be broken and moved.

 

[CSA 357]

I dont think yall gona make it, you dont just jump up and go live in the wilderness, maybe you should start out slow, i would hate to hear that a grizz got yall! Csa

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

+1 on CSA 357. There is a lot to learn and the wilderness is not the place to start. Do a lot of reading and practicing so you don't put your life or other's at risk. Good luck.

 

[abominableSnowman]

i know lots of research before anything. i was just putting the idea out there and my friends liked the sound of it. it will be a long time before we try anything like this.

but i am already preparing with survival gear so that i know hot to use it well.
i just bought a rifle and i am learning to use and maintain it. soon i will buy a hatchet so i can learn how to use and maintain that. after that i will learn to navigate with a compass and map.

both of my friends are outdoors men and know how to take care of themselves. one dude is a regular hunter and fisherman. the other knows most of what hes doing when it comes to the outdoors. I'm crafty and can build well with my hands.

also i am wanting to make a career as a paramedic so that will help.



we think we will go to Alaska in the summer for this. just one question. how was this dude able to set up camp? did he have to get a permit? http://www.aloneinthewilderness.com/index.html

 

[abominableSnowman]

also where is a good place to start camping?

 

[caribou]

Alaska is a big place.

Homesteding is over, and damn few state sell outs going on.....just do the right thing NOW and move here.Dont waste time, move!

Most of Alaska is open public lands. 2 week tent camps and a move to new resources (hunting/fishing/trapping/firewood) Its a great way to go!!!

You need a hunting/fishing/trapping license. You really need to be a resident to benifit without pullin $ out your nose.It takes a year to become a resident, but you can learn alot in that year.

Use a tent, fish with a net, hunt with a firearm, learn the "AX" and be smart about what your up to.



Obtain and bring along a woman....or find one here that loves to camp, they are around.Im sure one of your pards doesnt want to tend the camp, cooking, skins, meat, cut fish and sew for you.


I bring along the woman and my 7 kids (See, you need a woman long winter nights you know)

Look up some of my first posts and think about it.

if you want to "Survive" go for it and enjoy your stay.

if you want to make a living at it, your gonna need alot of time put in with fellow hunters who can show you the way, like a helping apprentice.

Good luck, and avoid the "Into the wild/Brokeback Mt." stuff.

 

[abominableSnowman]

in Alaska are you allowed to harvest timber to make a camp?
and no i dont want to make a living out of it. only a few weeks to a few months. it would make an excellent experience and this is something that i want to do while I'm still a youngin

 

[caribou]

LOL!

I hunt/fish/gather for a living.

You can harvest timber for tent poles, camp stuff and fire wood.

You will probly survive, but the BEST advice I can give you is to buy a rifle, shoot and shoot somemore, untill you can handle it safly, fast and accuratly.

A rifle in Alaska IS your Bear gun.

If you want a pistol , fine, just remove the front sight so it hurts less when the Bear shoves it up yer butt....LOL!!
Not really, its just that a rifle will stop a Bear and a pistol wont. Ive seen it a few times with my own eyes and LOTS BrownBears I have caught so far.

I use a7.62X54R M-39 Mosin Nagant for all year round hunting. it will kill everything in Alaska very dead.

you should have a .22lr in your list as well, if your gonna be out that long. At least 1 in camp.

Good rain gear and rubberbboots as well as hiking boots....some guys only wear "Xtratuffs" EVERYWHERE. it rains alot.

 

[abominableSnowman]

thanks caribou

actually my first rifle was a 91/30 mosin nagant and i just picked up a .22 S/L/LR lever action a few weeks ago. the .22 is fun to shoot now that ive fixed a scope to it.

with how it looks right now, there will probably be just 3-5 of us going so we will be able to haul a lot of gear. lately Ive been putting together a kit on paper. those boots you mentioned sound like a good idea.

each of our group members already own their fair share of firearms. but we will most likely have one dude with .22 and scope and the rest will have their large caliber bolt action rifles for hunting/protection

here is what ill be packing:

-Mosin 91/30 with sling
-ammo
-cleaning gear

-LED flashlight
-spare batteries
-flare gun
-flares
-whistle

-compass
-topography map
-map

-first aid kit
-moleskin

-hatchet
-forest axe
-fixed blade
-multi-tool
-maintenance gear

-storm matches
-fire steel
-magnesium block
-bic lighter
-fire tender

-water filter
-purification tablets
-water containers

-spare clothing
-space blanket
-sleeping bag
-bag liner
-sleeping mat

-pancho
-tarp

-550 parachute chord
-fishing kit
-snare kit
-cooking pan
-utensils
-emergency MRE meals

-leather work gloves
-ruck sac
-sunglasses

new to the list: edible plant book, rubber boots, Ushanka hat

i assembled this list by my self. suggestions would be helpful
also i need advice on what to use when building a canvas shelter and how to reinforce and maintain it. we will practice how to assemble and disassemble

 

[caribou]

the Mosin is Great.,

but you will need quite abit of Bug Dope. Misquitos in Alaska are flying by the cloud, and eat things by the pound and the ton.

Bug net to sleep under (worth its weight in gold!)I use a 5$ milsurp cot net.

A solid tent.Wind, rain and combos of both can ruin your week. Canvas is quite and with a few sections and some brush/rope/ poles you can assemble your own tent adhoc.Just make it solid and dry.We steak in willow rods in a 15 foot circle and bend them into a "upsidedown bowl" shape by tying and weaving the willows together, and throw our canvas tarps (plastic is loud), and anchor them by leaning willows against the sides as well as tie rocks to rope and throw thm over to hold it all down.

plenty of rope and LOTS of cordage. Its a great tool with millions of uses.

a thermos is nice so you dont have to build a fire when you come back in from the cold and wet, you just fill it at breakfast and after dinner to get you started inthe morning while you build a fire.

a zippo lighter. they are the BEST.

Dice and cards to pass the awfull days and figure whos doing dishes.~LOL!~

A medical kit and emergency location transmitter in case of serious accident, flip switches, push buttons and "maby', but a sight better than death.they are small, Id have 1 in camp, or a VHF handheld (I use one)

bring three or 4 various and back up knifes. lose that and its pretty tough.

 

[abominableSnowman]

so the mosquitoes are bad, but what about ticks? is lyme disease a problem in Alaska?
thanks for all the advise dude.

 

[Art Eatman]

Little stuff: There are reasons for how a blade is shaped as to the angle of the edge. Camp knives, for instance, are commonly 20 degrees for fine work and 30 degrees for heavier duty.

On a double-bitted axe, it is common for one side to be uniform in the angles for felling, but the other side to be set to "dig" for cutting limbs. (Always cut limbs going upward, sez us old cedar-choppers.) A hand axe or hatchet would be uniform at, say, 30 degrees. You need to know how to use a flat bastard file and then a stone. It's not hard to have a hatchet or axe sharp enough to shave with. But a brand-new axe or hatchet commonly needs around an hour's work to make it truly righteous. The old Boy Scout handbook is your friend.

Do you know all about knots? Clove hitch and bowline? Heck, even the sheepshank if the rope is way long for the need. Know how to splice a rope? How to frap the end against unravelling?

Add one of those little pocket-sized stainless steel mirrors. Signal your buddy a mile away across the valley so he'll know where you are. And vice versa; have more than one. Not nearly as noisy as signalling with a rifle.

If you're going to get to camp via truck or ATV: Rebar is your friend. A rod to go between two supports. The best supports are a piece of rebar which is pointed on one end, with a little U-shaped rod-support welded to it. You hammer the support into the ground, and lay the rod in the Us.

S-hooks of varying length for different-height pots (Pots should have bails.) 1/4" rebar or welding rod is good.

The rod oughta be set high enough so that a one-gallon camp coffee pot will hang clear of the coals.

Orient a fire pit so the prevailing wind blows away from tents and such.

Lotsa little stuff like that to think about. Makes a helluva difference in one's comfort level.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

You just have to be sure you can handle yourself in the wild. The difference between being in the wild and reading in a book has alot of differences. Be sure to make bear bags and hang them high enough to keep bears away. Anything can attract them from food to cologne to deodorant

 

[MCgunner]

My suggestion....

Set up camp near a town with a Walmart.

 

[Supertac45]

Just remember, it can be deadly if you make a mistake or two. Know what your doing and you'll probably only loose weight, but to know what happens to fools read "Into the Wild" by Jon Krakauer. I've done it for 2 weeks at a time without violating any laws in killing of wild game here in Michigan during the summer and it starts to suck after awhile living off of plants, berries, and fish. During small game season, it's not bad; but, the weather can turn nasty in a hurry.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've hiked most of the Appalachian Trail, Horseshoe Trail, the Ozark Highlands Trail and so on. I've hunted, hiked and ridden trails in the Rockies, and have been to Alaska. I've also spent a lot of time courtesy of my Uncle Sam hiking and living in some of the nastiest country you can imagine.

The first question is, what are you trying to do? If you are hiking and intend to cover some ground, your kit is rather heavy -- do you know how much it weighs?

If you are camping and staying put, then you can carry more -- but don't expect to rack up mileage.

This is what I carry for a 9-day pack trip:

The pack itself -- I use an internal frame pack I made, and the frame is the sleeping pad. The back of the pack is in two layers held mostly with Velcro. Peel it off and there's the pad. This pack with pad only weights 2 lbs. Do not carry a pack that's heavier than anything in the pack!

Clothing -- the colder and less temperate the climate, the more you need to carry. As a minimum I have trousers and shirt, a light down vest, a windbreaker, a hat with a brim, a solid pair of leather boots (with Gore-Tex drop sock), three pairs of thick, quality socks and three pairs of liner socks. Fit your boots while wearing two pairs of thick socks.

Shelter -- My shelter is Poncho Villa, a 9X7 poncho I made myself. For use as a shelter, I run a line between two trees and peg it out with lightweight aluminum tent pegs. I also carry a visqueen ground cloth. I like a good, light down bag (but you have to take care of a down bag.)

Cooking -- I carry an anti-gravity alcohol stove and enough alcohol (usually a quart.) The stove is made out of aluminum drink cans and weighs less than an ounce. I also carry a windscreen/reflector made from drink cans and held with tent pegs. I cook in an ordinary tin can -- a billy can. For fire I like a Ronson lighter, with a backup waterproof container of strike-anywhere matches, with the heads coated with paraffin wax. Also carry a food bag, and a long rope -- hoist any open food up into a tree and keep it well away from your camp at night.

Food -- one freeze-dried packet a day, plus rice, some jerky, cocoa, oatmeal, and powdered milk.

Tools -- I carry a Swiss knife (with all the blades) and a 21" bowsaw blade. A couple of short aluminum tubes attach to the ends of the saw blade with screws and nuts, and a locally-cut stick forms the rest of the bowsaw. Much lighter than an ax and much more efficient.

First aid and sanitation -- I carry tape and moleskin, iodine, bandaids, water purfication tablets, a small bar of soap and a small roll of toilet paper. I use a bandana as a towel -- and for other purposes as well. Carry lots of insect repellant, and in some places a mosquito head net is essential.

Waterproofing -- if it can be damaged by water, put it in a plastic bag. This includes your sleeping bag. Put a plastic trashbag inside your stuff bag, and put the sleeping bag inside that.

Water -- I carry a 20 oz plastic bottle in a belt holster and a water sack (plastic bag with spout inside a nylon bag.) Think ahead as you hike -- will there be water tonight? If in doubt, fill the water sack at the last sure source of water and pack it with you.

Navigation -- topomaps, compass (preferably a Silva protractor compass) and a GPS.

Firearms -- as appropriate. I won't argue with your choice of an M-N for bear country.

Finally, tell someone where you're going and leave them a map showing your route and expected schedule.

 

[lesterg3]

Snowman,

Lot's of good info here from our friends, I have been a survivalist camper for many years (usually only take instant coffee and a 1/2 cup of rice per day) usually by my self but a couple time with guys who thought they were experienced campers and who couldn't hack more than a week out. It was a waste of a get away for me. The longest I've been gone was 6 months.

You and your friends are obviously outdoors men, but how much serious camping, at least 100 miles away from the nearest store or civilization of any type, what's the longest you've stayed gone? What's the longest time you've gone without eating. How heavy will your packs be, or are you driving in? How far can you trek in the woods in a day? You can buy all you need and more if you can carry it, but are you truly prepared?

I am not trying to offend you in any way, but could you please answer those questions?

 

[CSA 357]

3 or 4 months in the woods is a long time, when you get home(if you get home) a hot bath and a bed will be sweet, i remember staying the whole deer season , stoped at a store on the way home , and saw a old lady in her 60 s and she was looking good! But had not seen any people in a long time, and that is nice! But you will be glad to see someone if you stay a while, you start to become one with the land, now im too old to go! But i wish you all the luck, csa

 

[JimKirk]

Go ahead and make your final plans before you make your plans final! Save the family the troubles..... just in case! I've spent a few weeks or more on our southern rivers ...with just basic camping gear and food. My friends and I have hunted, fished, camped and eaten just about anything that moves...for 45+ yrs now! Maybe I'm reading too much into your post ...but I'd say there is no way in heck I would want to go off with you on any kinda extended stay, even down here where the biggest animal is a wild dog or small bear let alone up north. Sorry, don't want to rain on your parade, but I'm just calling it the way I see it. Check out the old Boy scout manuals, not sure what they are teaching nowdays.
JK

 

[Grizfire]

-Get in shape, start HIKING tomorrow.

-Fishing will be your best friend. Back in boy scouts we went 60 miles through a wilderness in Montana and a few guys only brought their fly rod. Trout in high mountain lakes are stupid and these guys ate well.

-Plan your location well, and make sure you can get in and out during the time periods you are there. E.g the "into the wild" guy would have been fine if he was able to get out, but due to high water, he could not. Additionally, this past winter in Montana, a couple from Oklahoma went to live in a remote cabin and got snowed in. The woman died, the man should have died. http://newsok.com/oklahoma-woman-freezes-to-death-in-remote-montana-cabin/article/3341579

I suggest going near a source of water, such as a wilderness lake that will offer good fishing.

-In the wilderness, normally small sicknesses or injuries become big issues. Protect your your ankles and legs. If you can't walk out, your screwed.

-You should do a "practice run" by doing a 5-7 day backpacking trip in a wilderness closer to home. This is where you will learn "dang, I forgot toilet paper," as well as other things you might have forgot. You will also learn that you may have brought stuff you don't need.

Good luck, and don't let anyone discourage you. I would spend most of your research on survival, food, shelter, water, warmth and the ability to get in and out, and spend less time trying to decide what caliber for grizzlies. There is far too many more important bear safety items to consider than figuring out what bear gun to bring (hint: don't sleep with your food). The gun is your last resort, so do bring one.

 

[rickomatic]

If you want to see a great example of someone who actually did what you are thinking about, check this guy out. Get the DVD and watch it. It is absolutely amazing what this guy did. Then decide if you've got the same "what it takes" as he had.


Alone in the Wilderness