Sharpening VG-10 Spyderco

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LopezEL

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I have Spyderco pocket knife that I cannot get sharp at all. I can get all my other knives as sharp as I want them... including my Kershaws, SAK, and Case knife but that dang Spyderco just stays dull. There are several places in town that say they sharpen knives but I am leary of using them because they wont tell me HOW they are sharpening and I dont want them to mess up my knife.

This spyderco is a workhorse... I have used it as a hammer before and it still continues to function. If I could get it sharp, it would replace my Kershaw leek as my EDC. Any opinions? I am using the Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker system.
 

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Most likely, the edge bevel is gone from using the sharp-maker so many times.

Then there are two different sharp-makers.
The old ones with the black base and clear pouch were about 25 degrees, and the new ones that store in their own box base/lid are 20 degrees.

Your knife edge is 20 degrees, and if you have the older model sharp-maker, it isn't.

Here's what to do.
Send it back to Spyderco for factory sharpening for $5.00 bucks.

http://m.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/

That will get you back to square one again.

Then if you have the old model sharp-maker, replace it with the newer one that matches you edge angle.
There are dozens of other good ways to reshape & sharpen your blade.
But all of them take some degree of dedication and skill to use successfully on a hard blade like yours.

Rc
 
My sharpener says "30 back bevel" on one side and "40 edge" on the other side. It stores in a black self enclosing case. I guess sending it back to Spyderco would be the best option. I tried sharpening it again for like 20 minutes and finally just gave up.
 
O.K.
Before you do that, try this.

'Color' the edge of the blade grind with a black Sharpie or Magic-Marker and swipe it on the sharp-maker a couple of times on each side.

That will tell you if the blade angle and sharpener angle are doing the same thing to each other.

Which they must to produce a sharp edge.

Rc
 
RC is stearing you the right way. I just wanted to mention that VG-10 is a moderately hard to sharpen steel. You may find it takes more passes to get to that edge than a lower end steel.

Keep at it, you'll get that thing sharp.
 
I can get all my other knives as sharp as I want them... including my Kershaws, SAK, and Case knife

Kershaws are mostly milder steels, such 8Cr13Mov, these days. 8Cr13MoV contains around 0.8% carbon, 13% chromium, and only small bits of molybdenum, nickel, and vanadium. When you have more than roughly 0.6-7% carbon and 12% chromium in a steel, the rest mostly forms carbides. 8Cr13MoV contains small amounts of carbides. SAK and Case knives, mostly having carbon content in the 0.45-0.7% range, have even less.

VG10 has around 1.0% carbon and 15% chromium. Plus a good couple percent cobalt. It should have upwards of 4x as much carbide content than your other knives. The higher the carbide content, the larger those carbides will grow during the quenching phase.

Carbides can grow very large. A high carbide steel is like chunky peanut butter. Carbides limit how sharp you can get a blade. (This is referred to as edge stability. Plain carbon and mild stainless steels have the highest edge stability. High carbide steels have lower edge stability. And no, this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with edge strength or wear resistance. It just means how fine you can get the edge). Now, if you sharpen with more obtuse angles and/or lower grits, you may never really notice. The more acute and polished you take the edge, the more you will notice the difference between such steels.

I have a 440C knife on which I put an acute, polished edge of maybe 25 degrees, inclusive. (Actually it is 9Cr18Mov, which is very similar to 440C, and which should have high carbide content similar to VG10). Right off the hone, it will not cut a cotton patch without a backboard. It just slides right over the fabric. You ever hear of an edge being so polished it can't cut a tomato, etc? Well, there's some truth to that. But that's partly dependent on the steel. An acute, polished edge on a plain carbon or a "mild" stainless steel will easy cut tomatoes and/or shave hairs. That's because the blade comes to a very fine edge. It's super sharp. Of course it will cut a tomato. But if I take this 440C knife right off a super fine (translucent Ark, in this case) hone, it will not. Despite sharpening to the same angle, that angle doesn't reach all the way to the very edge, like it does with a carbon steel blade. Taking a not-so-sharp edge to a high polish on a hard hone will, quite understandably, make it not cut very well.

But lo and behold, if I cut a bunch of cardboard, this knife "gets sharper." And it will, indeed, easily cut tomatoes and cotton patches and paper towels. A more practical way to get this knife to top sharpness is to strop the heck out of it after honing. Yes, this polishes the edge even more, but the carbides sink into the strop and don't get physically dislodged as readily as when honing. Thus, the strop is better at leaving those carbides alone, better exposing the sharp edges on them, and further thinning and refining the steel matrix between chunks. Since those carbides aren't all lined up in a perfectly straight line, the cutting edge of this knife becomes a bit of a zig-zagging line that meanders up/down/left/right as defined by the larger chunks of carbides. You can't get the edge this fine (albeit crooked, on a microscopic level) on a hard hone.

After this treatment, this knife will easily cut fibrous materials. And it will easily slice through hairs. But it will never shave as well as a "milder" steel such as 420HC, 440A, 8Cr13Mov, 13C26/AEB-L, or any plain carbon steel. Since I starting finishing with translucent ark, I rarely strop my other knives, unless it's to remove cosmetic, visible scratches on the sides of the blade. At most, I may do a few passes on a strop to remove any microscopic wire edge (that's probably just in my head), but I have noticed no practical difference in sharpness whether stropping or not. But on a knife with big carbides, it can make a huge difference.

Steels such as S30V are made from finely powdered and mixed compounds fused together. This ensures that the ingredients are distributed more evenly. This allows for higher carbide contents while keeping those carbides from growing as large as in a traditional alloy. So you can get the benefits of wear resistance and higher hardenability without as much limitation on edge stability.
 
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I sharpen a few knives a year that are troublesome on the Spyderco.
With these knives, I find I do better with traditional bench mounted stones such as a Medium India and Hard Arkansas. A cardboard "strop" made from a strip glued to a piece of wood works wonders.
 
I just received a spyderco as a gift. It has a Hawk Bill blade that is serrated all the way to the tip. It is my 1st. Spyderco and I had some questions about it. It would seem that from what I have read here, that the best way to sharpen it is to send it back to the factory. From the above post it sounds like the more I use it, the sharper it gets! Is that what your saying?
 
From the above post it sounds like the more I use it, the sharper it gets! Is that what your saying?

Not as a generalization, no. Only under specific circumstances, and only for awhile.

If you high polish the edge of a large-carbide steel knife on a hard hone and then cut cardboard, specifically, (cardboard contains very small abrasive particles in it), the edge will initially get sharper. The act of cutting cardboard acts like a strop (but it's working directly on the edge, so actual stropping at a proper angle is better!)

But as you use the knife, the carbides on the edge eventually fall out. New ones will continually get exposed, but the edge is now wider than it started. So it gets dull, just like any other knife steel. It just wears slower.

TDLR: after honing a VG-10 knife (or 440C, or D2, etc), you should be able to get it significantly sharper by stropping.

Some folks strop, religiously. You may have heard comments such as "once you have the edge on there, you will be able to maintain it on a strop forever." Some folks maintain a knife on a steel, or a hone, or a ceramic rod, which is really a cylindrical hone. Some weirdos even use sandpaper over a mousepad :). Of those that strop, some favor hardwood or balsa (which is technically hardwood, haha) or leather over wood or a free strip of leather strung up like a hammock. Some maintain their knife by swiping it on the bottom of a mug. Others strop on denim jeans. Or the edge of cardboard. Or newsprint. What works best for one guy isn't going to work so hot for someone else with a different knife and different performance goals. These are all specific tools for specific jobs. If you are obsessed with edges, you may use several of them. The best tool(s) to finish/maintain any specific edge will depend on edge profile, desired performance, steel type, and the nature of edge damage that is being repaired.
 
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This thread has a video that has IMO the best explanation of practical sharpening:

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?7,6571

As cliff says most people don't know what is going on at the fundamental level of sharpening.

The sharpie trick is good for figuring out how far off you are, too.

For simplicity and getting a nice even bevel at the apex I like the sharpmaker a LOT. The diamond rods are worth the upgrade cost, the ultrafine ones aren't IMO.

For tough cases I really like my WSKTS 1x12 belt sander. I use metal mesh belts from micro-surface.com in even steps from about 180 up to 600 grit. generally from there for EDC I add a micro bevel of 30-40 degrees inclusive. This makes touch ups quick and easy.
 
I think RC's Sharpie advice is very good. I also think you might try knocking down the back bevel on a regular old sharpening stone and then try the Sharpmaker again. It may be that the edge is so worn back from sharpening that the corner of the bevel is rubbing against the rod instead of the actual edge. Laying it down at a lower angle on a coarse stone and thinning the edge bevel might make the Sharpmaker start working again.

You might try a little stropping too...you could be raising a wire edge and stropping it off would give you a razor edge.
 
send it to spyderco. It will come back looking brand new.

At least mine did (that I broke the tip off using it as a chisel)
 
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