Shaved lead

[plodder]

So I'm loading 230g soft lead RN projectiles in .45ACP on my Dillon 650. After getting powder charge and bullet seat depth correct I'm off to the races. About 50 rounds into it I notice that the bullet seating depth doesn't look right, and sure enough the bullets are about .200" too deep. After confirming the Dillon seating die lock nut had not become loose & allowed the die to move, my investigation revealed that there was a large build up of shaved lead in the seating die.

Fortunately, the Dillon seating die has a quick disassembly clip that allows cleaning without re-adjusting and I have learned that when loading the lead softballs I have to clean it out every 25 rounds or so (a real bummer).

I thought about increasing the bell setting in the powder drop to reduce shaving, but that leads to Failure to Feed and jamming in chamber.

Anybody out there with similar experience and a solution?

 

[dgod]

Personally, when I load Cast bullets, and caliber, I perform a slight bell on the case, this prevents shaving, then when I seat, I reset the case diameter, similar to a crimp. This has served me well for several years.

Good Luck
Dan

 

[Blue68f100]

Should not hurt to increase the flaring as long as your using a taper crimp die to take it back out. This is what I do in station 5 (LNL-AP)

 

[redbullitt]

Use a Lyman M die. It will make the cast bullet load up MUCH better. Cannot imagine loading cast without them now.

Otherwise you can bell out a little more with what you have already and try to chamfer a bit after that. The crimping operation in the seater will take care of any extra flare or belling you need. Those steps have helped me, but not as much as the lyman piece.

 

[243winxb]

RCBS seating die. Your Dillon may be different?

Its ok to bell more to seat. The taper crimp will remove the bell. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/45acp-shaving-lead-on-seating.572/

Make sure the bullet is started straight, as it contacts the seating stem.

 

[MEHavey]

thought about increasing the bell setting in the powder drop to reduce shaving, but that leads to Failure to Feed and jamming in chamber

(1) Do increase the bell, and
(2) Set the seater-die body down (just) enough to taper-crimp the mouth back to SAAMI spec

 

[mdi]

I do not crimp any of my semi-auto reloads. I just use a taper crimp die to "de-flare" the case, and my reloads are "plunk tested"...

 

[MEHavey]

I do not crimp any of my semi-auto reloads. I just use a taper crimp die to "de-flare" the case

A crimp by any other name is still a crimp.
How much a crimp--and what type--is the art.

 

[Holderofthehorns]

Would powder coating alleviate the lead shavings in the seater die? Bet it would.
New guy here, trying to think ahead, as I will be doing this very soon myself.

 

[FROGO207]

Might alleviate the lead shavings but would replace them with polymer shavings. Not enough bell in the first place will produce a "punch" and will cut the softer bullet to fit in the harder brass. You don't normally get shavings with jacketed bullets because both the bullet and the brass are close to the same hardness so most any "close enough" flare will work. The key as stated above is using enough taper crimp when seating or after to allow the round to chamber in the end. If it will plunk it usually will work as long as the seating depth is good for feeding.

 

[Walkalong]

A taper "crimp" on an auto caliber should remove the bell/flare or just a hair more. Set the "crimp" to remove the bell/flare on the shortest cases, which means the longest ones will get a tiny bit of inward "crimp" on the case. Maybe .001.

(1) Do increase the bell, and
(2) Set the seater-die body down (just) enough to taper-crimp the mouth back to SAAMI spec

View attachment 766678

Exactly.

A crimp by any other name is still a crimp.
How much a crimp--and what type--is the art.

Yep, although the "crimp" part of taper crimp does lead to confusion for new reloaders sometimes.

Follow MEHavey's advise.

 

[mdi]

A crimp by any other name is still a crimp.
How much a crimp--and what type--is the art.

A "crimp" in the terminology of reloading is to form the metal of the case around the bullet to hold the bullet in place during recoil or feeding. "Deflaring" has no other use (or meaning) than to remove flare, and can be done with dies other than a "crimp die"...

 

[MEHavey]

...to remove flare...can be done with dies other than a "crimp die"...

What are the names/sources of such dies ?

 

[plodder]

Thanks to all for the pointers. Some slight adjustments to my powder drop belling device and my crimping (de-flaring??) die all is now well. Original questions that started this thread now answered. Now back to the bantering & back & forth

 

[kcofohio]

Thanks to all for the pointers. Some slight adjustments to my powder drop belling device and my crimping (de-flaring??) die all is now well. Original questions that started this thread now answered. Now back to the bantering & back & forth

You forgot jostling!

 

[Walkalong]

All the die makers put a "taper crimp" into almost every .45 ACP seater, as well as many also making "taper crimp" only dies to do it in a second operation. The fancy micrometer type seaters generally have no crimp feature.

It has always been called a taper crimp as long as I have ever been around reloading. It's simply a different kind than a roll crimp.

A "crimp" in the terminology of reloading is to form the metal of the case around the bullet to hold the bullet in place during recoil or feeding.

That's the definition of a roll crimp. We also have a taper crimp that is designed to remove the flare in auto pistol calibers. It generally gives a hair of inward movement of the brass, but not much, because those calibers headspace on the case mouth.

 

[Kaldor]

Use a Lyman M die. It will make the cast bullet load up MUCH better. Cannot imagine loading cast without them now.

Otherwise you can bell out a little more with what you have already and try to chamfer a bit after that. The crimping operation in the seater will take care of any extra flare or belling you need. Those steps have helped me, but not as much as the lyman piece.

This...
Ive replaced every single expander I own and use an M-die and this includes for rifle calibers. It expands less, but the bullets are far easier to set and seat, and also require less crimp to finish up

 

[mdi]

What are the names/sources of such dies ?

Off the top of my head; I have used F/L sizing dies, and even tried push through bullet sizing dies. Basically just about anything with an ID close to the SAAMI case OD...

There are many thing that can be done when reloading , safely, that do not require dedicated "reloading tools". An open mind will lead one to finding acceptable results from tools not labeled for a specific task (ever heard of beer can gas checks, or metal preserver for bullet lube or floor wax as a bullet lube? I use a tool that is designed for countersinking screw heads to remove military crimps from primer pockets, and it has worked quite well for many years and thousands of cases)...

 

[rsrocket1]

Would powder coating alleviate the lead shavings in the seater die? Bet it would.
New guy here, trying to think ahead, as I will be doing this very soon myself.

I'll bet it won't. Even if you size the PC bullets to the same size as the lead bullets, if you don't flare the case a little more than where it is now, you will simply shave off powder coat rather than lead and you'll leave the bullet driving bands bare.

Been there done that. You need to flare enough that the bullet can sit on the case without propping it up while it goes into the seating die. It doesn't take much but you do have to have some flare so that the inside of the case mouth is wider than the bullet.

PC adds 2-3 mils beyond the cast diameter depending on how smooth you coat them. You might be able to get away without sizing them prior to loading but you'd better have a generous chamber and barrel throat or you'd better be ready to use the Lee FCD to squish down that bulge.

Contrary to the conventional cast wisdom of not wanting to swage down lead bullets, if your PC bullets are already cast at 2 mils above groove diameter and you PC them so that they are now 4-5 mils wider than your groove diameter, the pistol FCD will not cause leading with PC pistol bullets. The PC acts as both a protective coating against gas cutting like plating plus it acts as a lube without the adverse effects of smoke. I size my 45ACP PC bullets to 0.451" and my 9mm bullets to 0.356" and I also use an FCD on 9/40/45 and get excellent results with no leading.

 

[mdi]

All the die makers put a "taper crimp" into almost every .45 ACP seater, as well as many also making "taper crimp" only dies to do it in a second operation. The fancy micrometer type seaters generally have no crimp feature.

It has always been called a taper crimp as long as I have ever been around reloading. It's simply a different kind than a roll crimp.

That's the definition of a roll crimp. We also have a taper crimp that is designed to remove the flare in auto pistol calibers. It generally gives a hair of inward movement of the brass, but not much, because those calibers headspace on the case mouth.

Having worked with metal machining and forming much of my life, and reloading for a while, I am sure any type of crimp die, roll, taper, Profile, or collet does nothing but form case metal around the bullet. The shape of the metal formed will differ by the type of die, not by the action of the die. Taper crimp dies also can "crimp", adding tension to the bullet, and are not just designed for "de-flaring". There is nothing "magical" or mysterious about crimp dies as the shape of the ID and the adjustment are what forms the case metal...

 

[Walkalong]

Well, all the die makers all call it a taper crimp. If you want to call it a flare remover, feel free.

There is nothing "magical" or mysterious about crimp dies as the shape of the ID and the adjustment are what forms the case metal...

I am fairly sure I have never disagreed with anything like this simple fact, which is nothing like the post I responded to.

 

[cadet3]

I installed a Mr Bullet Feeder powder drop for my 9/38/40/45 toolheads because I mainly load coated cast bullets. It works he same as a lyman M die. No more shaved lead.

 

[mdi]

Well, all the die makers all call it a taper crimp. If you want to call it a flare remover, feel free.
I am fairly sure I have never disagreed with anything like this simple fact, which is nothing like the post I responded to.

One of us is having difficulties reading/understanding English...

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, and I am sure it is me, because I am sure you are sure it isn't you.