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She Cried Rape: No One Helped. WWYD?

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DFW1911

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This is more than just a bit disconcerting, I'm even hesitant to post it. I figure, though, if we can learn from it the better off we all are.

The indifference "we" can show toward others is, at times, staggering.

I'd like to believe that if I heard someone yelling "rape" I'd get involved. I'm inclined to think that I would.

So, what would you do?

Take care,
DFW1911


Link: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30105703/?GT1=43001

Story (long):

updated 8:33 a.m. CT, Wed., April 8, 2009
The young woman had been attacked in full view of a New York City subway clerk, then dragged down the steps onto a deserted platform where she was raped and raped again, the assailant not stopping even when a subway train pulled into the station.

Now, after nearly four years of constant nightmares, bouts of depression and anxiety, the woman has been told by a judge that two transit workers who saw her being attacked had no obligation to do anything to help her other than to signal their superiors that police were needed at the station.

In response, the woman, who asks to be identified only by her first name, Maria, is going public with her story in the hope that something will be done to save other women from enduring a similar nightmare.

“Hearing the decision about the case — it broke my heart. It really broke my heart,” the 26-year-old told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira Wednesday in an exclusive broadcast interview in New York. “I was really hoping that changes would be made, that other women taking the subway out there could feel safe and secure. The subway is raising their fares and spending even less money on security.”

The former graduate student said she didn’t expect the ticket clerk to leave the safety of his booth or the conductor of the train that stopped at — and left — the station during her attack to jump off his train to aid her.

“He could have just gotten over the intercom and said, ‘Hey! Stop what you’re doing! I’ve called the cops!’ Anything like that would have helped,” she said. “He didn’t have to get out of the booth. I don’t expect him to be a police officer. But he could have definitely said something over the intercom, or perhaps having a quicker system of notifying the police would have been effective, too.”

Maria, a native of Russia who came to the United States at the age of 7, was 22 years old and two days shy of her birthday when she was attacked. She was a graduate student at NYU looking forward to a career as a writer when she took the Queens-bound G train to visit her boyfriend in Brooklyn in the early morning of June 7, 2005.

It was shortly after 2 a.m. and the car nearly deserted as Maria occupied herself during the trip by listening to music on her headphones and writing in her journal.

“The second I realized something was terribly wrong was that I felt someone touching my feet,” she told Vieira, reliving again the terrifying attack. “I just thought someone had brushed me with their foot, and I noticed that the only person sitting in the subway was sitting in a place where they could not touch my feet. So I realized it was someone touching me with their hands.”

Missed her stop
The train pulled into her station, but, she said, “When I attempted to get off the train, this person touched my feet again, and when I turned back to yell at him, I ended up missing my stop. Then I was alone in the subway car. I was terrified. I couldn’t wait to get off the train at the next station, and just run away from him.”

Maria got off at the next station — 21st Street in Long Island City in Queens. She sprinted for the staircase that led from the platform to the upper level. As she reached the top of the stairs, she saw a clerk in the attendant’s booth. At the same time, her attacker caught her, wrapped her in a bear hug, and started to carry her bodily back to the deserted platform.

She told the judge in the civil suit she filed against the Metropolitan Transit Authority that she and the clerk looked at each other for a full five seconds.

“I actually was thinking, ‘Oh, thank god, I’m saved. Someone’s here that can help me. This is going to be done in no time and I’m finally safe,’ ” she told Vieira.

The clerk pushed a button that notifies central command that a police officer is needed. Maria said he could have gotten on the intercom and scared the attacker off. But he did nothing else as she was carried to the bottom of the stairs screaming and crying.

Threatening her life
“After he pulled me down the stairs, he proceeded to rape me at the bottom of the stairwell,” Maria said. “I was screaming and crying and begging him to stop. He said, ‘If you continue screaming, I’m going to have to do something.’ I couldn’t stop crying, so then he took me by the scruff of my neck and my jacket and put me over the tracks, like a 45-degree angle, and said, ‘Don’t scream again or I’m going to let go.’ ”

During the attack, another train pulled in and departed. She caught the eye of the train’s conductor. He, too, notified the command center that police were needed. But he didn’t stop the train or do anything else to stop the rape.

At the civil trial, the judge who ruled for the MTA concluded that the clerk and conductor “had taken prompt and decisive action” in calling for help and had complied with work rules.

Her attacker has never been caught.

The MTA issued a statement that said, “It is important to note that while NYC Transit workers are trained to the highest degree of professionalism in their assigned jobs, they are not and should not be expected to perform in the capacity of law enforcement officers.”

“I was never expecting them to be police officers,” she told Vieira. “They could have stayed in their booth and gone over on the loudspeaker and said something. In terms of it being prompt, by the time the cops had actually got there, 10 minutes later, I had been assaulted twice.”

As the police arrived, the assailant fled the station and has never been apprehended.

After the assault, Maria attempted to continue to work toward a graduate degree. But she had panic attacks when she rode the subway and had to quit school. She is still in intensive therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder and depression.

But she has found that speaking out has been therapeutic.

“The most important thing for me was breaking the silence and telling my story, because it was just haunting me and eating away at me. I was kind of a zombie, walking around with this enormous weight on my shoulders and blaming myself,” Maria said. “The more I got to speak out about my story, the better I felt. The most wonderful thing was that other women would start to come forward about their own stories that they had never told anyone else.”

She said she has forgiven her attacker, but not the MTA.

“Unfortunately, the man who assaulted me was obviously mentally ill and psychotic,” Maria said. “He probably had no basis of reality. He didn’t have a conscience, but the transit worker did. He was a human being capable of feeling emotions as I was. I just felt that it was so coldhearted and just completely abominable to basically look the other way.”

Maria’s lawyer, Marc Albert, joined her on TODAY and told Vieira he’s not done fighting.

“We’re going to appeal,” Albert said. “The transit authority claimed to be training their workers. There’s no training going on here and there’s no system in place. We certainly will be appealing.”
 
I'd like to believe that if I heard someone yelling "rape" I'd get involved. I'm inclined to think that I would.

So, what would you do?

I would like to think I would help, but consider the location here, NYC.

A city where you are taught from birth not to get involved, that the police are there to protect you, and you have very few rights to own any kind of tool that would increase your ability to protect yourself or others.

This is the city of Kitty Genovese, and nothing much has changed since 1964.

From 1964:

In The New York Times written by Martin Gansberg and published on March 27, two weeks after the murder. The article bore the headline "Thirty-Eight Who Saw Murder Didn't Call the Police." The public view of the story crystallized around a quote from the article, from an unidentified neighbor who saw part of the attack but deliberated, before finally getting another neighbor to call the police, saying "I didn't want to get involved."

Once, when someone DID do something, they put him on trial and dubbed him the "Subway Vigilante".

Goetz surrendered to police nine days later and was eventually charged with attempted murder, assault, and reckless endangerment, as well as with several gun law violations. A Manhattan jury found him not guilty of all charges except a single gun law violation, for which he spent eight months in jail.
 
She said she has forgiven her attacker, but not the MTA.
how can you forgive the attcker for commiting a sick crime like that? this is a sad, sad story.
 
My heart goes out to the woman, but in the absurd state of our current backwards and litigious society, I could understand why no one helped.

Goetz spending 8+ months in jail just for defending himself? And people think someone should dare volunteer to assist anyone they don't know?

Those people working the MTA probably had family to take care of at home, and getting killed helping someone else doesn't do your own family much good.

Whole situation makes me think of this though:

“All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.” -Edmund Burke
 
As a chivalrous male, coming across any situation where a woman is being physically endangered by a man instantly results in me making him swallow his teeth.

(sorry if that's not High Road, but it'd be better than standing there and politely telling him "sir that's against the law."
 
Snorky,

Goetz spent 8 months in jail for shooting his mouth off and providing fodder that undermined his credibility.
 
As for this crime. Absolutely horrendous. The MTA workers should be ashamed of themselves. To do nothing is a crime. Appalling behavior.
 
She said she has forgiven her attacker, but not the MTA.

“Unfortunately, the man who assaulted me was obviously mentally ill and psychotic,” Maria said. “He probably had no basis of reality. He didn’t have a conscience, but the transit worker did. He was a human being capable of feeling emotions as I was. I just felt that it was so coldhearted and just completely abominable to basically look the other way.”

This sounds reasonable....Blame the subway system but forgive and make excuses for the criminal that committed the crime.:rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, I feel terrible for this poor woman and those workers that did nothing except press a button should be ashamed of themselves, but to hold them MORE accountable for the rape than the rapist himself seems ludicrous. Not to be unsympathetic, but it's this type of thinking that leaves criminals on the streets or promptly returns them to their streets so they can commit more crimes. It's like our prisons are revolving doors because too many people are making excuses for criminals as opposed to making them pay for thier crimes.

And to answer the OP's question, Yes, I would have helped her. Don't care if I have to go before a jury after the fact to explain my reasons for doing what was right. Don't think I'd care to live in a society where a jury of your peers would send you to jail for doing what is plain faced right.
 
First off I dont think its right to expect MTA personel to come to your aid in a violent criminal attack, they dont have training, weapons or probably even peper spray. Hell most of them a older people, not young studs you can run in an save you like Superman.

She should apply for a CCW and then sue when shes denied, then maybe she'll change things in NYC for the better. Then maybe people will stop being victimized every damn day. This city doesn't sleep, neither do criminals, and as many cops as we already have they can't be everywhere.

Funny some guy how admitted he was drunk and fell onto the tracks and got run over by the train and lost a leg got awarded millions recently in a lawsuit. This woman had a better claim than him (IMO) and got her lawsuit shot down, weird even for NYC.
 
As a chivalrous male, coming across any situation where a woman is being physically endangered by a man instantly results in me making him swallow his teeth.

(sorry if that's not High Road, but it'd be better than standing there and politely telling him "sir that's against the law."

I feel you make a good point.

How many of us operating under the assumption that we must be armed to intervene?

Studies of group dynamics show that if one person would be the first to come to the aid of a victim, others are very likely to follow.

Just food for thought.

Thanks,
DFW1911
 
A couple of things to consider.

To Carl: Saying you would absolutely jump in is a bad idea. There is a VERY short list of people I would use deadly force to defend. I've even left some family members off this list. (Due to a long history of irresponsible behavior on their part.) The guy who taught my CCW class told a story (I have absolutely no idea how true it is, but it does make one think,) about a new CCW holder who was on the street one night, and he saw a couple leaving a bar in a fight. the man pushed the woman into an alley as she struggled against him. He moved to the front of the alley to see the man with his pants down on top of the woman struggling. He pulled out his pistol and removed the top of the bad guy's head. When he went limp on top of her, the guy went to help her and as she was getting up, she yelled at him; "You idiot!! We were playing a sex game!! Why did you shoot him?!"

The reality is, many victims of sexual assault will (for the same reason they often don't report the crime,) deny that they were being assaulted and leave YOU on the hook to explain why you had to kill someone. If you yell at them to stop, and that you are talking to the police, while being ready to protect YOURSELF, you will both help the victim and cover your butt. Any action you take beyond that is off the reservation and you're on your own.

The MTA guys probably followed procedure to the letter. We can be upset that the metro cops' response time was so bad, but remember the first general order? "I will guard everything within my post and leave my post ONLY when properly relieved."? The operator of that train has a first responsibility to the passengers of that train. His jumping off the train to stop something he sees OUTSIDE of that train would be just like me leaving my kids in a car idling on the side of the road to go chase a bank robber on foot. The fact that BOTH employees did the exact same thing shows a good understanding of and compliance with MTA policies on the part of the employees. My only experience with the city metro cops is watching "Money Train", where they make it look like the whole system is crawling with cops. The reality is that it's like any other law enforcement setup. They can't be everywhere, they are not liable, you are on your own to protect yourself, and New York won't let you.
 
My heart goes out to the woman, but in the absurd state of our current backwards and litigious society, I could understand why no one helped.

+1

My mother-in-law is a liberal, she is anti-gun. In response to one of her remarks I said that the only person that cares about you is you and so you need to make sure you have the means to defend yourself. She then said "Is that what you want? To live in the Wild West?" I told her, look around, we already do. In many ways the "wild west" was more safe than today.

She just blinked...

NYC has hundreds of murders per year, thousands of rapes and assaults. Tell that is better than the "wild west" of yore?
 
I agree that this is a horrible crime. For most of us being armed, if we knew a woman was being raped, there is only one thing that would cross our minds. Aim carefully. But the MTA trains it's employees to stay at their posts, call police and leave the police work to the police. They are not armed and they want to see their families at the end of the day just like the rest of us. Yes, they could have done a little more without the risk of getting hurt or fired, but not much more. It's hard to think of everything in a bad situation. We, of all people, know how that works.

I think many of us would rather lose our jobs than sit still while a woman is getting raped. But if we were unarmed like the MTA employees, how much more would we do? I'm not going hand-to-hand with some young punk with unknown weaponry and may be hopped on something.

I wish the best for this young woman and I hope she finds some peace.
 
Hey TexasRifleMan,

Are you from NYC?

No but I can read the newspapers. This idea of ignoring others is well documented in the city unfortunately.

More? Here, just grabbed at random in about 2 minutes, one from 1984 and one from just last year.

NEW YORK — Investigators say neighbors waited more than a half hour to call police after hearing a woman's screams for help as she was being stabbed to death at a New York City apartment.

While neighbors ignored her screams for 15 or 20 minutes, a woman was beaten in the courtyard of a Brooklyn housing project early Friday, then dragged into a lobby and shot to death by two young assailants, the police said yesterday. Detectives who questioned hundreds of people in two ...

My quick search didn't turn up any incidents like this for Dallas, Atlanta, Denver, or anywhere in New Jersey to just randomly pick a few.

Maybe it's simply the large population in New York, but you have to admit the majority of these stories seem to come from that area.

Goetz spent 8 months in jail for shooting his mouth off and providing fodder that undermined his credibility.

Goetz was convicted of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree – carrying a loaded, unlicensed weapon in a public place even though he was found to have used the gun properly in self defense. You can't really spin that any other way. Whether he was a lunatic or not really doesn't matter.

But, this is the Strategies and Tactics area, so I should confine myself to the topic, my apologies.

I guess I don't understand why no one even called the police here, let alone actually did anything proactively.
 
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First step? 911 and leave the line open.

Second step? Since Nazi York City wouldn't let me carry, the guy gets to swallow his dental work.

Stupid of me, especially if I don't know if the guy is armed? Sure, I could see somebody saying that.

But I would get to sleep at night and could look my family in the eye. I couldn't do that if I walked away.

-Mark
 
Instead of relying on the police for all interventions, if more citizens acted then it would show the criminals that they have more to fear than just the police. There are a lot more citizens than police.
 
it behooves every male fit enough to do so to take some basic hand-to-hand combat classes - Judo preferable to Karate, but basic boxing will do the job. and carry some sorts of lawful defense tools - spray, baton, knife, shocker - etc. and CCW IF lawful.
one of my favs is the folding 'hawkbill' vinyl tile layers knife - razor sharp of course. a very deadly weapon.
 
it behooves every male fit enough to do so to .....

It would behoove every male and female to do what you have suggested. The problem with expecting other people to come to your rescue is that others don't always feel the urgency or have willingness to bear the liability and risk of injury.
 
TexasRifleMan,

I think that phenomena can be applied to almost any urban or densely populated suburban sprawl. As far as NYC goes for all the time you may have read about folks doing nothing I've personally seen folks do something. Their definitely are neighborhoods (and cultures) which are hostage to thuggery. That's a different issue though. It takes quite a law enforcement effort and community dialog to turn that kind of fear around. Like I said though, it certainly isn't exclusive to NYC.

Most folks are sheep. I remember when I was 15 and a woman dropped to the ground at the local mall. A crowd of people just stood around her in a circle. Myself and a friend proceeded to give her first aid when we realized no one else was going to do anything. (EMT's showed up about 15 minutes later, she was breathing and had a pulse).

I think a great many people get stuck on the though that they are not "qualified" to deal so they just get mentally stuck.
 
I like to think I would help. My mother did raise me right and I am sure I would have gotten involved. I detest rapists! They give all men a bad name and reputation. If it had been in almost any other she would have had the right to keep a firearm and would have been able to defend herself or the conductor or clerk may have had a weapon. This is a case a victim who could have protected herself if the government hadn't taken the right of self defense from the citizenry.
 
As far as "Wild West" goes versus living in todays American society. You need to be smoking something real good if you believe the "Wild West" was a safer society to live in. The Wild West was akin to the frontier borders of the Roman Empire at it's fall. Lawless. Does the US need improvement? Of course it does.
 
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